View Full Version : How do you set up your tripod?
I guess this is a very basic question, indeed:
What is your tripod setup routine?
I often extend the legs to what I think is the correct height, put the camera onto it, fiddle around a bit, wrestle the controls and dark cloth ... and find I have to get lower down, or level the camera according to the terrain, adjusting the tripod legs up or down. The cameras I use aren't heavy in themselves, but it is always a worry something will happen. A rather different feeling compared to smaller formats. Setting up to various standard heights would also be easier if there were markings on the tripod (at least mine doesn't have it).
When one has no head at all (on the tripod, that is!) I guess one gets into even more "adjusting the legs while trying to hold on the camera".
Maybe it is because I've always had to struggle with my tripods, head not tight on the tripod, fiddly quick plates, worn out stuff ... tripod blues.
When carrying it in the field, camera on it I have the front leg a few inches longer than the other two. This way I can bend down or stoop and he longer leg hits the ground first. Then back away a bit - pulling on the tripod to open up the other two legs and set it in place. Then, do any extensions.
This has me standing in the open area between two of the three legs with the front leg pointing towards what I think I want to photograph.
Get some foam pads - or Pool Noodle type of foam - and pad two of the tripod legs where they will rest on your shoulder as you walk. Also, take a yard or two of gaffer tape and wrap around one leg, not up and down, just like a tape roll. This will come in handy for those times you need a bit in the field. On the tripod it is always with you.
A small thing, but it saves time and makes it easier in the field. Just like setting the camera settings back to zero after I take an image or move on from one spot. Learned this small stuff from my Uncle - who got the tips from Michael A. Smith, a good photographer who was pretty much fanatical about small things so you did not waste time and effort and could concentrate on your images rather than the process. In learning to use these larger cameras and watching experienced photographers in the field I have seen most get into a routine or pattern that has them making fewer mistakes that intrude on their concentration.
Somehow it seems most who get very good at anything find a way to get rid of the distractions.
I recall Fred Picker recommending that one assign time to go to one's car, put packed the gear in the trunk, then go through the routine of setting up the camera and putting it away no less than 50 times in a row, so that each step would be learned. That helped me a lot when I got my first field camera some years ago. He also said, if I recall correctly: When photographing, don't put the camera on the tripod. Look carefully until you find exactly the point where the camera should be -- forward/back, up/down, side-to-side. Then bring the tripod, put your chin on the head, and adjust until your view is exactly where you want your lens to be; then mount the camera.
He also advised setting the front leg first and pulling the back two out; seems to work well, and the slightly extended front leg sounds like a good idea.
Good clamps and QR plates, and a good mounting platform are essential with bigger cameras.
Much of the time I use a half-ball as levelling base on my tripod, this helps a lot with small adjustments.
And another item that helps is a pocket viewfinder.
This allows me to frame a shot 90% accurately before I take out the camera or tripod.
And I don't like carrying the camera on a tripod, too much can go wrong.
John Layton
1-May-2020, 09:03
I pretend I'm the camera and lens...look around and eventually place my head about where I think the camera should be - then extend/place tripod legs but leave top sections plus head slightly unlocked as I place my chin on the tripod mounting plate...fine tune leg/head positions...then lock everything down. After this I mount my camera and lens, focus, adjust whatever need adjusting on camera/lens, then move position if necessary and re-adjust whatever, if necessary.
Doremus Scudder
1-May-2020, 11:32
I find my camera position before I start setting up anything.
Once I have my position (and that includes height), I set up the tripod legs. If I know I'm going to set up low, I set the legs at a lower position, etc., etc. I then place my chin on the camera platform and adjust the center column to exactly the right position. I adjust laterally at this time by just picking up the entire tripod and moving it one way or the other in small increments till I find the place I want. Only then do I unpack the camera and mount it on the tripod.
If there are very sensitive areas in the scene, e.g., things I want to just barely touch, or lines that I want to meet at a certain point, I check these on the ground glass after set-up and adjust tripod position with little movements; moving the center column up/down, inching the tripod legs to one side or the other carefully.
I really wish that I had a tripod head that would shift laterally a cm or two either way though.
Best,
Doremus
John Layton
1-May-2020, 11:38
Doremus...I've noticed that you do the thing with your chin, just as I do. Maybe we should have prosthetic tripod sockets implanted...3/8 inch of course!
I think about the location and height. Once picked, I extend the tripod legs for that location and flip the tripod over (so legs are down) 1 leg toward the subject, then the other two I can stand between and not trip over. If I need to up or down an inch or two I can bring the legs closer or further apart and press the leg spikes in.
C. D. Keth
1-May-2020, 15:01
Setting up to various standard heights would also be easier if there were markings on the tripod (at least mine doesn't have it).
Sharpie or white-out, depending on which will stand out on the tubes of your tripod. Just mark every two inches. You can ballpark a height with one leg and then set the other two to the same number of marks showing to be pretty level. It's very quick.
Drew Wiley
1-May-2020, 16:08
Since I don't use any kind of tripod head or center column for LF use, I do it the same way early surveyors did for decades, who were expected to be totally precise, but it's also become so instinctive and easy for me that it's hard to describe. It's the kind of thing a video would work better at communicating, but I don't have one. I scout for my position and typically mark it with a trekking pole or by memorizing a particular rock or leaf or whatever. Then just adjust the legs so that my eye position will be right where I want it. The camera platform has to align to the same plane as I want my camera tilted or not, which is not necessarily level. Legs can be quickly extended or retracted, and their length adjusted to achieve exactly what I want, even on precarious boulder settings.
It just becomes second nature and quick after awhile, and sure as heck is more stable than any kind of tripod head.
Mark Sawyer
1-May-2020, 16:33
Typical set up on a level surface: I predict the camera height I want visually, then extend the tripod legs accordingly, roughly allowing for a little loss spreading the legs. Before spreading, I set one leg to the desired height and tighten, then stand the tripod up and loosen the other legs so they fall to match and tighten, then spread the legs and attach the camera.
Sometimes the camera is already attached, which makes it clumsier, but usually not as clumsy as detaching and re-attaching the camera would be.
Sharpie or white-out, depending on which will stand out on the tubes of your tripod. Just mark every two inches. You can ballpark a height with one leg and then set the other two to the same number of marks showing to be pretty level. It's very quick.
Apropos markings, my Novoflex comes with markings integrated into the carbon fibre legs, making it really quick to match height across all 3 (or 4) legs.
Not to derail the thread, but out of curiosity, how many of you end up shooting most of your material at eye level? I.e. at whatever height you usually walk around and view the world from?
One of the things I always liked when shooting MF was the subtly different POV it gave when using a WLF. When I started with LF just recently, I almost always ended up setting up the camera at eye level, i.e. standing height. I crafted a makeshift 4x5 viewing frame out of heavy cardboard, attached a string with knots and marks for 75, 90, 135, 150, 210 and 300mm to use when figuring out what I want in the final shot, and only recently did it occur to me that I can get down low, try different angles, etc.
I guess all those years with MF didn't really generalize to my current approach to LF. It's like learning all over again from scratch. Might just be me...
I am mostly a Rolleiflex 6x6 shooter and for street photography where my subjects are always people the waist level perspective is perfect.
For LF usually buildings as the subject I find i more often need to shoot from a higher vantage point and will set my camera short of a step ladder. I pre-visualize sometimes with help from the focal length app on my phone, set up the tripod, level it and then mount the camera with the lens and cable already attached. I usually do need to move the camera around for the best angle.
I don't think about it any more...the tripod goes up. Sometimes it is a bit of a battle, though, finding solid ground in the redwoods -- the duff is suddenly 16 inches deep, what looks solid is not. Edward Weston has a hell of a time with it on his visit to the redwoods on his California adventures.
Took awhile to get use to t he 11x14 -- I am not use to being able to set up a camera too high.
Drew Bedo
2-May-2020, 04:22
Not sure why we are talking about this . . . .but OK.
My 4x5 outfit is somewhat light weight: Wista-made Zone VI on a little Velbon CF tripod. The Camera is about at the upper limit for the legs.
• I unstrapped the legs from my bag.
• Extend the legs all the way (its a short tripod)
• Adjust the legs to get a rough eye-ball level.
• Mount the Camera.
• Re-level the camera via the ball head.
That is my routine. Hope this helps.
Drew Bedo
2-May-2020, 04:30
Not to derail the thread, but out of curiosity, how many of you end up shooting most of your material at eye level? I.e. at whatever height you usually walk around and view the world from?
.
I have developed a suite of age-related aches and pains that discourage me from bending and squatting. I tend to shoot from as close to a standing position as possible. There have been times when a lower perspective is called for and I look for a way to sit down while getting the shot. This means looking for a log or rock . . .sometimes I have a stool along.
This doesn't change my "routine" for setting up the tripod.
John Layton
2-May-2020, 04:55
Drew...more and more on a seemingly daily basis...I can so relate to this! Then again, I do have a wheelchair-bound friend who is also a street photographer (he shoots with a Leica Monochrom) - and his perspective is perfect!
I think some of my challenges carry over from using 35 mm and medium formats, where I easily can "walk the tripod" somewhere else. I also think the premeditation part is still a bit lacking, since I often set up, look at the groundglass and see that I need to move the whole contraption. Like Vaughn, I sometimes get into situations where the camera is too high up (the head builds height), since I find myself often working at eye level. Compared to pinhole and medium format TLRs where I get much lower vantage points - the tools makes me see different aspects of the same subject.
I am not too keen on going the route of having the legs less extended and raising the column, but I guess that could work in a pinch. Quite a few good tips and tricks in your answers - keep'em coming. :)
Doremus Scudder
2-May-2020, 11:02
Jimi,
I use (and recommend) a viewing frame as an aid to finding composition and camera position without having to set up and look into the ground glass.
I have a Zone VI viewing filter and like it for its small size, but you can easily make something that will work just fine. All you need is a card with a rectangular cut-out in it in the 4x5 aspect ratio. I used to carry a folded 3x5 card with a hole cut in it in my shirt pocket. Not only will the viewing frame help with finding camera position; after a while, you'll be able to use the distance from viewing filter to eye to estimate the focal length of the lens you'll need.
It's a heck of a lot easier to walk around with the viewing frame and work on viewpoints, composition and possibilities than using the camera. Then, once you've found your spot and height, setting up the tripod is easy.
Many here use rather large cameras and tripods with no center column or head for stability reasons. Without those, all the adjustment and table positioning is in the legs. I use a lightweight camera and prefer a tripod with both head and center column. I often don't worry about getting the tripod itself level, I just level with the tripod head once the camera is in the right spot in space.
Interestingly, I don't spend a lot of time working at eye level at all. Often, I'm sitting on the ground or in an uncomfortable knee-bend. Other times, I'm searching for rocks and logs I can carry over to my location to put under the tripod legs (and me) to get more height.
Best,
Doremus
Learned a new tripod trick a few weeks ago that might help against vibration using timed speeds under extreme conditions (not for everyday use, but might help under very extreme situations)...
I have been shooting a 4X5 Graflex Super D RB daily that produces a "bump" when mirror flips up right before shutter opens... When on even a sturdy tripod, you can feel and see a slight jump, and film tests proved it... Been shooting it with long lenses and have been doing shots with critical edges, so I wanted to use a smaller pod in the field instead of one of my large wooden MP tripods that resist this vibration, but wanted to use a smaller Majestic that's lighter and has the gear head... But this still allowed the vibration blur... I had added an oak tripod mounting block on bottom of camera that also provides better transfer of support, more ridges to wrap hands around when holding, and provision for a guitar strap to screw into the sides... When on the tripod, my plan was to try "holding" the camera while still being supported... Then I noticed something interesting...
When my palms were pressed along the center of gravity on the camera and were pressing some little pressure downwards in what felt like the strongest center point in the tripod, the mirror flop dissappeared INTO the tripod!!! Felt totally dampened now...
I was thinking this might help view cameras under high wind/vibration conditions also if a disc plate was between camera and tripod/head that allowed hands to push downwards to dampen external vibration when needed... A disc of plywood, hardwood, metal etc with a tripod screw for the camera, and a threaded insert for head mounting allows some place to press downwards for this effect...
I noticed even if my camera was aiming up or down at 45°, I still can feel where the strong part of the mounting is, so pressed in that direction...
So not for everyday use, but for a last chance situation, it might help... It might take some practice, but put camera on pod and feel around for what seems it's strongest point to try pressing down as a test...
Sorry if the post is long...
Steve K
Mark Sawyer
2-May-2020, 12:40
Re: How do you set up your tripod?
I give my tripod a bag of meth-amphetamines and tell it to drop it off with a friend of mine. Then I give my tripod the address of the cop that lives down the block...
Hey, it's been a long quarantine...
Re: How do you set up your tripod?
I give my tripod a bag of meth-amphetamines and tell it to drop it off with a friend of mine. Then I give my tripod the address of the cop that lives down the block...
Hey, it's been a long quarantine...
I'll send a SWAT team and EMT'S over before the fat lady sings, OK??? ;-)
Stay safe!!!
Steve K
dodphotography
4-May-2020, 05:56
I continually try to get higher than eye level work but I always fail to have enough desire to bring a stool / ladder thing so at 5'7 I am short. I am not even sure exactly how high my tripod extends.
CreationBear
4-May-2020, 07:21
Other times, I'm searching for rocks and logs I can carry over to my location to put under the tripod legs (and me) to get more height.
Very useful thread! A kinda/sorta related question: given a lens with a generous IC and a camera with reasonable movements, once you run out of tripod height and front rise, what's a reasonable angle of elevation for the camera bed if you still want a fairly perpendicular perspective?
Or to give you a concrete scenario: while I'm well over 6'6" in my hiking boots, my Induro tripod and Sinar pan/tilt head puts my Sinar Norma GG right at eye level. Unfortunately, it's rare that the understory vegetation doesn't get in the way of what I'm trying to catch higher in the canopy. Certainly I'm not looking for "architectural" precision--not many parallel lines in my neck of the woods:)--but I'd like to square things off as much as possible.
Andrew O'Neill
4-May-2020, 08:43
Nothing special. I just hold the tripod at approximate height, drop the legs, then tighten. With uneven terrain, there's a little more fiddling involved...but I try to get the tripod as level as possible, before attaching the camera.
Doremus Scudder
4-May-2020, 11:00
Very useful thread! A kinda/sorta related question: given a lens with a generous IC and a camera with reasonable movements, once you run out of tripod height and front rise, what's a reasonable angle of elevation for the camera bed if you still want a fairly perpendicular perspective?
Or to give you a concrete scenario: while I'm well over 6'6" in my hiking boots, my Induro tripod and Sinar pan/tilt head puts my Sinar Norma GG right at eye level. Unfortunately, it's rare that the understory vegetation doesn't get in the way of what I'm trying to catch higher in the canopy. Certainly I'm not looking for "architectural" precision--not many parallel lines in my neck of the woods:)--but I'd like to square things off as much as possible.
Some thoughts:
First, you can get more effective front rise by pointing the camera up and then tilting back and front standard to perpendicular again, assuming, of course, that you have enough image circle.
As far as getting a view over the top of "understory vegetation," the only thing that will really help is to get the camera higher.
If you run out of image circle and need to point the camera up, you'll get some convergence. How much is acceptable is up to you. The ground glass gives you the information you need to decide. When I'm in this situation, I get as much front rise as possible given the image circle I have (check for vignetting by looking back through the lens at taking aperture and making sure you can see the bottom corners) and then point the camera in that configuration to get the framing I want.
Another alternative is to use a shorter lens, get everything squared and make sure the composition you want is in the upper part of the frame. Then crop away the unwanted foreground/bottom part of the image later when printing. This works well with large film if you really need to keep the vertical lines parallel.
Best,
Doremus
Drew Bedo
4-May-2020, 11:07
Ever try hanging a weight from the bottom of the tripod center post? Anything from a bag of stones or sand, a jug of water . . .or even the camera bag can work. some tripods already have a hook down there.
CreationBear
4-May-2020, 11:16
First, you can get more effective front rise by pointing the camera up and then tilting back and front standard to perpendicular again, assuming, of course, that you have enough image circle.
Excellent, thanks! I'll have to do some experiments to see what kind of "angle of attack" I can get away with--I find I'm using a 240/9 G-Claron a lot these days, so the ~300mm IC ought to give me a bit of leeway, especially in these wild-and-wooly environs.
C. D. Keth
4-May-2020, 16:00
Ever try hanging a weight from the bottom of the tripod center post? Anything from a bag of stones or sand, a jug of water . . .or even the camera bag can work. some tripods already have a hook down there.
I do that when I'm worried about wind or have to set the tripod off balance a little for some reason. I have a mesh bag I hang from the center and fill with rocks. I hang it and let the rocks just touch the ground so wind can't introduce swinging.
...Or to give you a concrete scenario: while I'm well over 6'6" in my hiking boots, my Induro tripod and Sinar pan/tilt head puts my Sinar Norma GG right at eye level. Unfortunately, it's rare that the understory vegetation doesn't get in the way of what I'm trying to catch higher in the canopy. Certainly I'm not looking for "architectural" precision--not many parallel lines in my neck of the woods:)--but I'd like to square things off as much as possible.
I start off square (level) but in the woods sometimes the image will dictate otherwise! In high-heeled hiking boots I'd be 6'6" (why is there a Cheech song going thru my head?) -- large redwood branches laid on top of the sword ferns blocking my view is common...as is looking for higher perches!
The second image (ca1994, vertical 5x7 carbon print) was taken where the person is laying on the redwood in the first image (1986, SGP from 4x5) The top of the redwood is now its own forest. But the camera itself was at least 20 feet above the forest floor
CreationBear
4-May-2020, 17:33
But the camera itself was at least 20 feet above the forest floor
Excellent, I definitely envy you your open woods--I've often thought that a climbing tree stand would come in handy, though the Federales in the GSMNP might look askance.:) At any rate, your scenario does bring to mind another skill I need to pick up: manipulating the lens shutter/aperture by feel.
Alan Klein
4-May-2020, 19:21
Good clamps and QR plates, and a good mounting platform are essential with bigger cameras.
Much of the time I use a half-ball as levelling base on my tripod, this helps a lot with small adjustments.
And another item that helps is a pocket viewfinder.
This allows me to frame a shot 90% accurately before I take out the camera or tripod.
And I don't like carrying the camera on a tripod, too much can go wrong.
I just started shooting 4x5. So I decided to try my P&S micro 4/3 digital camera. First, I set it to BW and adjust the zoom to match the LF lens coverage. Then I can look to see where I want to shoot. Once I get the 4x5 camera on the tripod and focused and set up, I use the P&S to do the exposure and watch it's histogram. I then can take a quick shot of the scene for late reference as well as dictate and record the settings I used using video mode. I transcribe the settings at my leisure when I get home. I'm still learning and it's a little fiddly. But then again so is LF photography.
Excellent, I definitely envy you your open woods--I've often thought that a climbing tree stand would come in handy, though the Federales in the GSMNP might look askance.:) At any rate, your scenario does bring to mind another skill I need to pick up: manipulating the lens shutter/aperture by feel.
One has to wander a lot to find open areas and those 12 diameter trees are to photograph around. Those ferns are 4 feet tall, and most is berries and salal (Gaulthoria shallon) taller than we are (referred by the locals as "green shit"). It is one of the reasons I like to work along creeks...use to walk down the middle of the creeks in the early winter since no way one could penetrate the greenery on each side. Later, the steelhead and cut-throats come up and spawn and one needs to keep out and not disturbs the redds. New Years Day I'd take the boys to Prairie Creek to check out the steelies.
A local band at the bar next to my house (skip to 1minute for music); https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqoKsO1arY
A few times I have wished for a small mirror -- one lens has an aperture scale only on one side. But fortunately most lens boards are square and can be rotated so I can lean out and see at least one side. The only problem with that is not only do my shutters differ slightly, but how I mount the board on the camera changes where the controls are -- making it tough 'by feel'. Many times I have just had to rotate the camera around, study the control set-up, and then re-compose.
I keep some of those plastic dental mirrors in my kit...
I have oriented all my lenses to read the f scale on the right hand side of the camera, as my cameras are often higher than my head, but often I only have access to the left side during some set-ups...
But it does take some practice to learn to use mirrors, know where to look on my odd assortment of older lenses, and not hurt myself (or worst the camera) while using them in iffy locations... And everything is reversed in them... ;-(
I buy them at the drugstore...
Steve K
CreationBear
5-May-2020, 06:08
salal (Gaulthoria shallon) taller than we are (referred by the locals as "green shit"). It is one of the reasons I like to work along creeks...use to walk down the middle of the creeks in the early winter since no way one could penetrate the greenery on each side. Later, the steelhead and cut-throats come up and spawn and one needs to keep out and not disturbs the redds
Ha, it's dog hobble (Leucothoe) and rhododendron in these parts that dump you into creekbeds (or, if your risk/reward matrix is totally skewed, lead you to use deadfalls like scaffolding:))
At any rate, I will have to think on Steve's mirrors--an elegant solution...if I could view them clearly with my middle-aged eyes. (Half my pack weight seems devoted to glasses in different prescriptions already.:)
I guess this is a very basic question, indeed:
What is your tripod setup routine?
I often extend the legs to what I think is the correct height, put the camera onto it, fiddle around a bit, wrestle the controls and dark cloth ... and find I have to get lower down, or level the camera according to the terrain, adjusting the tripod legs up or down. The cameras I use aren't heavy in themselves, but it is always a worry something will happen. A rather different feeling compared to smaller formats. Setting up to various standard heights would also be easier if there were markings on the tripod (at least mine doesn't have it).
When one has no head at all (on the tripod, that is!) I guess one gets into even more "adjusting the legs while trying to hold on the camera".
Maybe it is because I've always had to struggle with my tripods, head not tight on the tripod, fiddly quick plates, worn out stuff ... tripod blues.
My Bogen tripods have adjustable-length bracing struts from the legs to the bottom of the center post. That lets me adjust the column to be vertical (i.e., the platform is level) very quickly. For my Sinar cameras, I use one of those big Bogens with a Sinar Tilt Head and tripod adapter more or less permanently installed. I first scope out the scene and identify my desired camera location, and then set up the tripod (with the camera still in the case) to place the camera at about that height, with a level platform. I use the bubble level on the top of the tripod to get it approximately level. Then, I install the camera into the tripod adapter. Invariably, I will need to make small adjustments--the bubble level on the tripod is not that precise. But the closer the top of the tripod is to level, the less I have to mess with those adjustments if I turn the camera. With the Sinar, yaw is adjusted on the Tilt-Head, roll is adjusted with the tripod adapter clamp (the round Sinar rail will rotate side to side in that clamp) and pitch with the tilting feature of the Tilt Head.
I have another of those tripods that can be set up with a three-way head that clamps to a Bogen Hex Plate, one of which I have permanently mounted on the monorail adapter on my Cambo.
For my smaller cameras, I have the Sinar adapter that lets one install a regular camera into the Sinar tripod adapter. On that, I mounted an Arca-style clamp for Arca release plates, which is my standard for all my smaller formats. So, if I'm out with one of the Sinars and bring a smaller camera, I only need one tripod. When not bringing the Sinar, however, my regular tripod for my smaller cameras is a Gitzo 3532 with an Arca B1 ballhead. But I hate ball heads for view cameras and for the Sinar, only the Tilt Head makes any sense. The Gitzo is small and light in comparison to the Bogens, though it's still plenty large enough for 4x5 cameras. I would happily use it for any large-format camera that uses a regular tripod mount, with an Arca-style plate.
Rick "who has used big Bogens since Lester Bogen appeared in an ad sitting on one" Denney
Learned a new tripod trick a few weeks ago that might help against vibration using timed speeds under extreme conditions (not for everyday use, but might help under very extreme situations)...
I have been shooting a 4X5 Graflex Super D RB daily that produces a "bump" when mirror flips up right before shutter opens... When on even a sturdy tripod, you can feel and see a slight jump, and film tests proved it... Been shooting it with long lenses and have been doing shots with critical edges, so I wanted to use a smaller pod in the field instead of one of my large wooden MP tripods that resist this vibration, but wanted to use a smaller Majestic that's lighter and has the gear head... But this still allowed the vibration blur... I had added an oak tripod mounting block on bottom of camera that also provides better transfer of support, more ridges to wrap hands around when holding, and provision for a guitar strap to screw into the sides... When on the tripod, my plan was to try "holding" the camera while still being supported... Then I noticed something interesting...
When my palms were pressed along the center of gravity on the camera and were pressing some little pressure downwards in what felt like the strongest center point in the tripod, the mirror flop dissappeared INTO the tripod!!! Felt totally dampened now...
I was thinking this might help view cameras under high wind/vibration conditions also if a disc plate was between camera and tripod/head that allowed hands to push downwards to dampen external vibration when needed... A disc of plywood, hardwood, metal etc with a tripod screw for the camera, and a threaded insert for head mounting allows some place to press downwards for this effect...
I noticed even if my camera was aiming up or down at 45°, I still can feel where the strong part of the mounting is, so pressed in that direction...
So not for everyday use, but for a last chance situation, it might help... It might take some practice, but put camera on pod and feel around for what seems it's strongest point to try pressing down as a test...
Sorry if the post is long...
Steve K
I do the same things when using my Pentax 67. A large hand pressing the camera down into the tripod eliminates the shake caused by the opening first shutter (I already use mirror pre-release).
Rick "big focal-plane shutters do have inertia" Denney
Excellent, thanks! I'll have to do some experiments to see what kind of "angle of attack" I can get away with--I find I'm using a 240/9 G-Claron a lot these days, so the ~300mm IC ought to give me a bit of leeway, especially in these wild-and-wooly environs.
Remember that convergence happens when the back is not vertical. You can leave the back zeroed and use front rise, or you can tilt the rail back and then tilt the back to vertical--as long as the back is vertical, you won't have convergence.
You can, of course, leave the lens at right angles to the rail when you tilt the camera back, and then image circle won't be a problem with the tilted back. But it will screw up the focus plane, tilting it towards you at the top of the scene and away from you at the ground. That may be okay if the subject material is tree trunks and canopy reaching back towards you, but it will be the opposite of what you want if the scene includes ground-level foreground. f/45 may help, too :)
Often, we minimize effects we can't correct completely. So, we don't completely neutralize vertical convergence, and we tilt the front to be as close to parallel to the back (no matter where the rail is aimed) is the image circle will allow. f/45 helps with the image circle, too, of course. Most images are the best compromise of competing technical objectives to get the artistic result we want.
In the darkroom, a little bit of convergence can be corrected by raising one end of the easel, but again you'll need a tiny aperture to provide the depth of field that you'll need when doing that.
On the topic of tall tripods, I have extension legs for one of my Bogens that will put the camera at about nine feet. I did that to make a photo through a window opening in one of the side buildings of the San Jose Mission in San Antonio. After positioning the camera, I realized I had no way to elevate myself to camera height. I had to guess, informed by careful measurements of height. It worked, but it wasn't easy and depended too much on luck. I was glad my kit had a 36" cable release in it. Now, any time those extension legs are brought, so is the little three-step ladder.
Rick "who also likes his verticals vertical" Denney
Roberto Nania
5-May-2020, 13:13
Very helpful thread! Some very good tips, I will use them on my next day of shooting.
Thank you
I have another of those tripods that can be set up with a three-way head that clamps to a Bogen Hex Plate, one of which I have permanently mounted on the monorail adapter on my Cambo.
For my smaller cameras, I have the Sinar adapter that lets one install a regular camera into the Sinar tripod adapter. / .../ But I hate ball heads for view cameras and for the Sinar, only the Tilt Head makes any sense.
How does this Sinar adapter look like - assuming it works for the pan/tilt head? I agree on the pan/tilt head for the Sinar - once I put the camera on there ... I understood. :) The Cambo goes onto a 029 head, but as related in the OP, it builds height. I tried the Cambo on the pan/tilt, but the smallish rail mount did not work well (camera moved too much).
One of my favorite things about view cameras is realizing the flexibility of the POV due to IC... Not only can we visualize the frame, we can also learn to visualize (aprox) the IC... If we also learn the circle (like a round viewing mask), we can also place the frame within that circle... So if our scene has a good upper quadrant with what we want, but the foreground has stuff we don't want (parked car, bushes etc) we can work around them with movements skillfully applied... (A very old photographer long ago once told me how he learned to "shoot around poles and trees with his 8X10)... Not always possible, but can work sometimes if smart...
The example in earlier post (for example) one can possibly shoot over the scrub canopy using the upper IC, but also to not get locked in to a paticular spot of angle, as there are others also...
One limiting factor I have found is also try to use a slightly longer than shorter lens as wide tend to give more ample foreground, but also tend to include stuff we didn't really want more... But a longer lenses' slightly narrower POV might be able to "weave" past obstructions better and narrow out a complicated scene... And convergence from tilting camera up/down is slightly relaxed and might be manageable once a little side tilt is applied...
One of my cameras has no lines on the GG (except centerlines and borders for RF formats) so I can experience the form of the object in itself, but not grounded by geometric outside forms (like the image is in jail)... But I have to manage if this will look natural later...
Interesting challenge!!!
Steve K
How does this Sinar adapter look like - assuming it works for the pan/tilt head? I agree on the pan/tilt head for the Sinar - once I put the camera on there ... I understood. :) The Cambo goes onto a 029 head, but as related in the OP, it builds height. I tried the Cambo on the pan/tilt, but the smallish rail mount did not work well (camera moved too much).
I'll snap an iPhone picture at some point in the next couple of days and post it here.
The Sinar adapter is fairly tall, actually. With the Sinar Tilt Head, it stands as tall as the big traditional Bogen three-way head. (Come to think of it, the OP has mentioned somewhere that he uses a Norma, and the Norma adapter is lower. It uses a foldover clamp instead of the drop-in clamp used by the P.)
The Sinar head includes an alignment pin and a tightening clamp. I would probably adapt a quick-release clamp to it (maybe for Bogen hex-plates, which are big enough for large format, or for one of the better Arca clamps). That would require finding something that would allow a hole to be drilled for the alignment pin, meaning the clamp has to extend with solid material over the pin's location so a hole can be drilled. The Sinar head is optimized for Sinar cameras, though, and I don't use it for other view cameras.
I looked up the model numbers. My Bogen legs are model 3036 (Manfrotto 075), and the three-way head I have always used is the Bogen 3047 (Manfrotto 029). I do have a geared head, but it used a quick-release system I never liked and adapting it to something else was a pain in the rear. My first Bogen tripod was the 3040 (Manfrotto 028), but it lacked leg independence, won't go very low, and was harder to set except on flat floors. With the 075, the tripod legs will extend out far enough that the bottom of the center column (which isn't that long anyway) is nearly touching the ground, putting the camera at a couple of feet above the ground. Any lower and I have to lay on the ground.
I do recall once tilting the Bogen head so that it pointed straight down and mounting the camera sideways on it so that I could get it a hair lower. It was not worth the trouble. Plus, I had to stand on one tripod leg to keep it from tipping over. If I need a camera position that low, I'll leave it for someone else to hang in their private museum. :)
That Gitzo 3532, however, will go very low. The center column can be removed entirely and the legs extended out to drop the top of the platform to a little over six inches.
Rick "topics as interested as lenses to me: lighting and tripods" Denney
Drew Wiley
5-May-2020, 16:43
I was out with the P67 with a 300 EDIF lens today, and use the same strategy as with the 8x10: platform-top larger Ries tripod, camera bolted directly to it; no tripod head. In fact, I use two mounts, the thread on the camera body itself plus a lens collar, united to a laminated phenolic and maple bar, which is what is directly attached to the tripod platform via the 2/9 turnbolt. I even tinted the penetrating epoxy for the maple half with rust etc to faux finish match the weathered look of my old maple Ries legs. For all shorter 67 lenses, a smaller tripod and solid Gitzo pan-tilt head work fine, provided mirror lock-up is used from anything about 1/60th or slower. Too windy today for good view camera results up atop the ridges, but the ocean breeze kept distant air clean and eliminated heat waves. I was after distant subjects and eager to beat the much higher temps forecast later this weak.
CreationBear
5-May-2020, 17:07
Most images are the best compromise of competing technical objectives to get the artistic result we want.
A nice précis--much appreciated.:)
Promised pics.
My Sinar P Expert Kit. Bought complete for $300 (no lenses):
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200506/5a306cf2025dd6026b4569a645bf473a.jpg
3036 with Sinar head and tripod adapter, 3036 with gimbal head:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200506/14eb2404764869c00aaa2cb644835d6b.jpg
Gitzo 3532 with B1, Manfrotto something with CF legs (my wife’s), 2021 for small camera, 3036 with geared head, 3040 with 029 head:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200506/c7652266b053d2520f1281221d12c823.jpg
3036 with Sinar tilt head, Sinar adapter, and camera, in lowest position, center of frame at about 30”:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200506/39e9423a616848322a7079bbe33c5f2f.jpg
Rick “gotta get some film through this” Denney
Thanks for the informative photos and descriptions, Rick.
Yes, I have a Norma (4x5/5x7 combo) and since the fold-over clamp is much lower, this works great with the pan/tilt head. I am debating getting a specific tripod for the Sinar, since swapping heads around (sounds like Zaphod Beeblebrox) gets tiresome - never the right tool at hand for the task. I think that is a better option to me than trying some ad-hoc solution, leaving the 029/3047 and leg combo as it is.
Thanks for the informative photos and descriptions, Rick.
Yes, I have a Norma (4x5/5x7 combo) and since the fold-over clamp is much lower, this works great with the pan/tilt head. I am debating getting a specific tripod for the Sinar, since swapping heads around (sounds like Zaphod Beeblebrox) gets tiresome - never the right tool at hand for the task. I think that is a better option to me than trying some ad-hoc solution, leaving the 029/3047 and leg combo as it is.
It’s not hard to find Bogen 3036/Manfrotto 075 legs for $100 or less on the used market. I think I only bought one of mine new, maybe in the late 80’s. (I bought the 3040/028 legs in 1975, maybe.) And most parts are readily available.
Rick “might look for a Norma clamp someday” Denney
Ever try hanging a weight from the bottom of the tripod center post? Anything from a bag of stones or sand, a jug of water . . .or even the camera bag can work. some tripods already have a hook down there.
A better solution is to run some twine or rope from your tripod hook and attach a tent spike at the other end.
Plant the spike and tighten the rope enough so the tripod doesn't wobble.
If you're on pavement, this method is much less effective.
(If you have a hook on the bottom of the center column.) You can let the twine or rope drop to the ground and just before operating the shutter step on it with your foot to tighten it. A lightweight chain doesn't stretch, but is flexible.
Bertha DeCool
11-May-2020, 18:58
Having used a TLR for many years as well as LF, I've grown accustomed to seeing at around waist height as well as at my normal 6'4" eye-level perspective.
Sadly, at 61 yrs of joint wear and body damage, bending/kneeling/squatting for any length of time are problematic.
I keep a short aluminum step ladder that weighs nothing in the back of my car so if I'm shooting at Weston-distance from the car, I can have a nice comfy seat.
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