What is this frame around the photo

[hiroh]

I understand this frame comes from this specific film, and probably in many cases is supposed to be cropped, but this photographer chose to leave it as an interesting effect. But is this only on a LF films, or even medium or 35mm films has it?

203278

[Dugan]

That's the rebate edge of the film, the part that didn't get exposed to light because it was under the film guides in the film holder.
Kodak and Fuji usually imprint the edge with the film type for color film.
Cropping is subjective.

[Drew Wiley]

Since an official code notch is only on the corner of one end, something has been deliberately doctored, probably digitally. The coloration is not even typical of that particular film, 160 VC, which would appear in the border anyway, if this were a direct representation. It's been tricked out in more than one way.

[hiroh]

Thanks, but is this border appear just on the medium and large format cameras? I've never seen it on 35mm

[Drew Wiley]

Code notches are only on sheet film. 35mm film borders would have sprocket holes. Somehow they started with a 4x5 sheet then probably digitally fooled around with it. The notches on the sides look faked to me. "Rebate"?? That's Brit talk for a rabbet, where you don't get any money back! What on earth kind of film holder would produce that pattern on the sides, or move the film wording onto the image area itself at the top, not even covered by a top flap? Maybe there is a better explanation than I've given, but it doesn't resemble anything I've ever seen; and I've shot plenty of that particular film in 4x5, including in packet or Readyload version.

[ic-racer]

Here maybe?
https://media.digitalcameraworld.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/123/2010/03/50_free_photo_frames_and_borders_for_Photoshop_final_pins3_20.jpg

[Pieter]

Code notches are only on sheet film. Somehow they started with a 4x5 sheet then digitally fooled around with it. The tapered side borders and notches on the sides are faked. I get annoyed enough when people file and then deliberately print the borders of negative carriers. Guess this person is trying to start another pointless "creative" fad.

It may not be film at all, just digital tomfoolery.

[hiroh]

It's not photoshopped, that's for sure. This is Dan Winters' photo, the very famous photographer who shot celebrities, aerospace and other things, on film for decades. I don't say this photo is not manipulated in terms of colors, maybe some dodge and burn, but I can bet it was shoot on film and that frame is the original.

https://www.danwintersphoto.com

But it's interesting, how computers and photoshop devaluated the true masters' work in a way. Very few knows how to use lighting, medium or large format camera to make an image like this. And many more knows how to snap the frame in the photoshop (including me).

Reminds me of the story of the very famous opera singer, or some musician whose tickets sells for thousands of dollars and then they made an experiment where he performed on the street, and people though he's a street performer, almost homeless, no one even noticed his brilliant voice and singing abilities just because people are used that street performers, are just that - a street performers. But that's another story :)

[Drew Wiley]

Be specific - how is the frame original? What kind of holder would leave that side pattern? And I don't see a darn thing remarkable about the portrait itself, except for printing goofy edges.

[hiroh]

By original I mean it's not added in photoshop. What kind of holder - I don't know, I actually came here to ask you if read my original post :)

You can find Dan's work from 70s and 80s, all having frames. This is kind of his signature, I'd say.

Here are some of his really old photos he took as a student in his 20s. Not all of these are that old, but some.

https://www.danwintersphoto.com/PEOPLE/FRIENDS-&-NEIGHBORS/26/thumbs-caption
https://www.danwintersphoto.com/PEOPLE/BLANK-CANVAS/1/thumbs-caption

[Vaughn]

Looking at his website, my impression is that the borders are all added digitally...even marks from film clips seem to have been added...without any great worry about the borders being realistic.

[Ulophot]

Thanks for the Winters links. I was not aware of his work. For a portraitist, I find much to learn from him.

[BrianShaw]

I’ve never seen a LF holder outline that looks like that. Tomfoolery, for sure... either digital or via a mask.

[paulbarden]

It's not photoshopped, that's for sure. This is Dan Winters' photo, the very famous photographer who shot celebrities, aerospace and other things, on film for decades. I don't say this photo is not manipulated in terms of colors, maybe some dodge and burn, but I can bet it was shoot on film and that frame is the original.

The photograph you first pointed to has almost certainly had the unusual frame border added digitally, after the fact. Yes, some/many of Winters photos depict "genuine" frame borders (the Hasselblad stuff looks legit) but not the image you're asking about.

[Pieter]

I can't remember where I read it, but Avedon sometimes added a film holder border in the darkroom.

[Drew Wiley]

OK, now you're triggering my memory and I'm starting the recognize his work, which is indeed nice. Thank you. But now I'm more convinced than ever that the borders are faked. It could have easily been done via sandwiching a film template in the enlarger carrier, so indeed, no PS necessary.

[LabRat]

I’ve never seen a LF holder outline that looks like that. Tomfoolery, for sure... either digital or via a mask.

To build on Brian, the rebate on top is weird... The top edge over the code notch covers something like around an 1/8" (measure it, not sure) as that is the edge covered by the flap and provides some handling area and is masked with normal holders... This is not covered in the example, and not likely unless holder was modified (unlikely)... The other strange thing is the sides just below the flap are normally open to allow the top of film to be slightly lifted during unloading, but there are little "ears" in this area (that I never have seen before)... Suspicious...

I've never been a fan of pronounced borders, as I believe this "inprisons" the image by over-isolating it... I try to compose the edges so the viewer can imagine what is happening beyond the frame, and create a "soft" transition where the image composition begins and ends but blends to the white margin...

I spend over 85% of my composition time just looking at the borders to create these transitions, overall composition has been seen beforehand, and I'm just getting things into the "frame"...

Steve K

[Drew Wiley]

Yup, I got sick of the fad of roughly filed carrier borders long ago. And something like this seems just as pretentious. But I gotta go as soon as the drymount press heats up, with all prints before trimmed off before mounting !