Chamonix adjustment

[speedfreak]

I’ve been using the Chamonix 45f2 for more architecture. I check the back specifically for plumb with a nice little torpedo (Stabila) level but have noticed that the front will need a small amount of tilt to ensure parallelism with the back. I’ve also verified via a precision rule that they are out about 1-2mm.
The front standard is within its detents (no adjustment on these) and the rear standard is against it’s vertical stops. The stops have some very small allen (or hex) head grub screws that can be driven in or backed off to adjust these stops. Does anyone know the size Allen wrench needed. They are probably ~.5mm- 1mm.
I’d like to be able to set the camera up and know that the front and rear standards are parallel right from the start.

[Jim Noel]

They probably are metric. A set of wrenches shouldn't cost more than $4-5. A good investment in your case.

[speedfreak]

I have many Allen wrenches but this one is particularly small. I’m going to see what the hardware store has and will report back if I can find it.

[ic-racer]

You can tape a laser pointer to a counter top and aim at the lens with a filter and note where the laser beam shines, then take lens off and the focus screen should reflect back to the same spot.

[David Lindquist]

This gives the hex wrench sizes for metric set (grub) screws: https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/driver-bits/Metric-Allen-Drive-Driver-Sizes.aspx

The smallest size screw shown is M1.6. Couldn't immediately find definitive information that in fact this is the smaller size hex socket metric set (grub) screws come in.

David

[speedfreak]

Hugo has told me that on the H1 the size is 5/64”. I think that the F2 is different. I’ve located the smallest standard size Allen wrench I can find, which is 0.050, and still too big. I’m now ordering any metric size under 1mm and both sizes under .050” in standard. These sizes are .035 and .028. We’ll see...

[speedfreak]

The metric sizes available under 1mm are .89mm and .71mm. Since Hugo references 5/64” as a size I’m assuming all the hardware is Standard but am ordering the small metric sizes just in case since these little Allen wrenches are so cheap.

[Greg]

While I just love my 4x5 Chamonix for field work, I always use my 4x5 Sinar Norma for shooting architecture. Everything is always in pretty much perfect alignment pretty when I start off with all settings/movements at zero position. Only catch was to acquire a Linhof to Sinar lens board adapter that was solidly made. The first one I got off eBay was so poorly made that the Linhof board could be wiggled easily 1mm.

[speedfreak]

Believe me each time I’m fiddling with the camera I think of getting a Sinar P or something similar. I’ve had a ton of different cameras and really like the Chamonix for what it is (light weight, sturdy, versatile), but it does leave me wanting in some circumstances. Always wanted and Arca Swiss f-line though... ;)

[Greg]

Believe me each time I’m fiddling with the camera I think of getting a Sinar P or something similar. I’ve had a ton of different cameras and really like the Chamonix for what it is (light weight, sturdy, versatile), but it does leave me wanting in some circumstances. Always wanted and Arca Swiss f-line though... ;)

A good 4x5 Sinar buy is a Sinar X. It's basically a 4x5 P but with a non-interchangeable 4x5 back. I couldn't resist acquiring one in its original box for under $500 a while back. Have used it for architectural work but always regret not using the Norma instead. For me the X is great for shooting landscapes from the back of my car. Sinar did offer a rather compact (for a monorail camera) gray plastic case (with a strip rainbow colored squares) which holds the X, Auxiliary standard, three lenses , and more. I keep it ready to go all the time and have been carrying it in the back of my small SUV more and more.

[Ari]

I like to keep a small precision screwdriver with all the bits the camera needs in my camera bag.
I have this one, it's very slim, good magnets, and has lots of crucial bits for cameras, light meters, computers, etc. including some hex bits that are in the size range you need.
https://www.amazon.com/ORIA-Screwdriver-Electronics-Kit，Precision-Repairing/dp/B07ZH6CH9D/ref=psdc_8107047011_t5_B07WNHD9GQ

Good to have if you need to do some minor repair/adjustment in the field.

[ic-racer]

5/64 and 2mm are pretty close. In fact my 5/64 driver and 2mm driver measure the exact same (2.00) with micrometer. If a 1mm is too big you might try 0.9. I got mine from MIP (https://www.miponline.com/MIP-Hex-Driver-Wrench-0-9-mm-9012).

[speedfreak]

Yeah it’s definitely sub 1mm.
.05”= 1.27mm
.035” =.89mm
.028” = .71mm

Should have done these calcs before I ordered. I ordered two of the same size just one metric and one standard. Ohh well as long as just one fits I’ll be happy!

[speedfreak]

Ok so after a bit of thought I believe I’ve been asking the wrong question and assuming the answer that I’ve been getting have also been wrong. Hugo is undoubtedly correct: the grub screw is 5/64” or 2mm. This would be good information if the tiny screw went missing and you needed to replace it. Note made. BUT...I’m trying to drive said 5/64” grub in and out for adjustment and based on the charts provided that appears to be the .035”/.89mm (.9mm) Allen wrench.
I’ll confirm tomorrow when the wrenches arrive (LOVE McMaster Carr!). Thanks all for the patients, skull’s gone a bit thick lately!

[Kiwi7475]

Believe me each time I’m fiddling with the camera I think of getting a Sinar P or something similar. I’ve had a ton of different cameras and really like the Chamonix for what it is (light weight, sturdy, versatile), but it does leave me wanting in some circumstances. Always wanted and Arca Swiss f-line though... ;)

My dream camera too, but it’s so damn expensive!!

[Doremus Scudder]

While I applaud your efforts at getting your camera precisely aligned so that you don't have to worry about parallelism when setting up, I might submit that what you are endeavoring to do may be more trouble that it's worth.

Wooden cameras have some play in them, which changes around with the humidity, weather, temperature, etc., meaning that once the conditions change, all your adjustments may have been in vain.

Plus, the mere fact that the camera standards on wooden cameras are a bit "wiggly" to begin with means that you may have a heck of a time finding and keeping a parallel position. Plus, stresses introduced when using lots of rise (common in architectural work) may push the front standard out of parallel despite all your fine-tuning.

Add to all this the fact that the position of the front standard doesn't change the rendering of parallels on the film, but only the plane of sharp focus in the scene, which often needs to be adjusted in architectural work, and you may want to simply spend your time making sure the front standard is in the correct position for each shot.

I do lots of architectural work with a wooden field camera and have just learned to assume that I'll need to adjust the front standard for focus every time. I set up the camera with back parallel to what I want to keep parallel (this could be both vertical and horizontal lines or just vertical lines) and then apply whatever rise/fall and shift I need to get the composition I want. Step three is always to check focus center, top, bottom and both sides and adjust the front standard using swing/tilt to get everything I want in the same focus plane.

Often, I'll use a bit of front tilt anyway, i.e., moving the front standard away from parallel to the film plane, to get the plane of sharp focus positioned optimally in the scene. This is particularly helpful when there is some foreground in the scene.

I guess my point is that the ground glass will tell you when you've got your shot set up the way you want. You should be checking all this anyway, so making the camera adjustments at that time doesn't really take that much more time. Relying on having the camera adjusted so it sets up parallel to itself is no substitute for checking focus all around.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[speedfreak]

I completely agree with everything you’ve pointed out, Doremus. Anything made of wood is certainly not static and the ultimate truth is only really evident on the ground glass (assuming GG and film holders are within spec.).

I’m really not one to dwell on this type of stuff at risk of missing the forest for the trees but I look at these adjustments as a the establishment of a baseline. The fact that these adjustments are available allows me to get the camera as close to parallel as possible then adjust from there.

And to conclude; the .89mm or .035” Allen wrench is the correct size for the 5/64” grub screw that allows the vertical adjustments of the rear standard on the Chamonix 45F2.

[Doremus Scudder]

speedfreak,

I'm not trying to discourage you from adjusting your camera to make it as precise as possible. I've done that with all mine. I'm just recommending that you use the ground glass as the final arbiter and pointing out that parallel is not always the optimal configuration for architecture. And, that there may be a point where you've got things as close as practical without spending an inordinate amount of time, at which point you can simply recognize and compensate for the inherent margin of error.

Have fun,

Doremus

[Alan Klein]

I completely agree with everything you’ve pointed out, Doremus. Anything made of wood is certainly not static and the ultimate truth is only really evident on the ground glass (assuming GG and film holders are within spec.).

I’m really not one to dwell on this type of stuff at risk of missing the forest for the trees but I look at these adjustments as a the establishment of a baseline. The fact that these adjustments are available allows me to get the camera as close to parallel as possible then adjust from there.

And to conclude; the .89mm or .035” Allen wrench is the correct size for the 5/64” grub screw that allows the vertical adjustments of the rear standard on the Chamonix 45F2.

I have a similar problem with my Chamonix 45H-1. Only the back standard tilts very slightly back when locked into the set. Is the adjustment on the back the same with the same size hex?

[speedfreak]

I have a similar problem with my Chamonix 45H-1. Only the back standard tilts very slightly back when locked into the set. Is the adjustment on the back the same with the same size hex?

Hugo mentioned in his email to me that he has an H1 and the screw is a 5/64”. So yes, I’d say that the .035”/.89mm Allen wrench will work.

[speedfreak]

One more thing Alan: VERY small turns make large changes at the top of the frame (since the adjustments are made very close to the lower pivot point). I went through a whole process to set them that I can expand on later.

[LabRat]

For checking zero settings and bed alignment on press/technical/field cameras, even monorails during total overhauls, my tool of choice is an adjustable machinist's square... Sometimes only accessible when camera is partly stripped of bellows and other stuff (but sometimes in can be squeezed in somewhere), the long rule would go along the bed , but the tri-end would go somewhere inside standards... This shows errors at a glance... Trouble is wood cameras tend not to have provision to adjust it out, but metal ones usually do...

Might be a bit of overkill, but nice to know the camera is aligned when zero'ed...

Steve K

[Alan Klein]

Hugo mentioned in his email to me that he has an H1 and the screw is a 5/64”. So yes, I’d say that the .035”/.89mm Allen wrench will work.

Do you have a link for the allen wrench set?