My mind is blown by recessed board difficulties, any suggestions?

[LanndonKane]

Hi all!

I am new to 4x5 photography - after a ton of research and dead ends, I thought I might ask the opinion of the large format brainiacs on this site:

I just purchased an Intrepid MK4 4x5, and I am having a LOT of difficulty selecting a lens. I am gravitating towards a 75mm lens, but the problem seems to be finding a suitable recessed lens board that will work with the lens combination.

Intrepid says that the 75mm must be used with a recessed board. A few other people around the internet said they were *just* able to get away with a flat board on this camera, but that was for an older version, so I’d rather play it safe and use a recessed board (if anyone has experience using a flat board with the MK4 at 75mm, I’d love to hear your opinion!)

This brings me to the crux of my problem: from what I’ve researched, it’s not just about finding a recessed board that will fit the 99x96mm style that the intrepid requires - apparently, many recessed boards don’t work properly with 75mm lenses (not being able to cock the shutter, difficulty with cables, a slew of things that I don’t fully understand yet).

The lens I had my eye on was the Nikkor 75mm SW, but I have not been able to find one packaged with a recessed board and confirm the size of that board, or find a separate board that I know will work with properly with this lens.

However, the below lens just popped up on eBay, and it looks like it’s stocked with a recessed board (so I can be confident the lens/board is a good match for each other), but again, I have no idea if the size is correct for the intrepid. I’ve emailed the seller to ask - not sure if anyone might visually recognize this style board and understand if it’s the correct 99x96mm size?

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEAR-MINT-Rodenstock-Grandagon-75mm-F-6-8-Copal-0-Large-Format-Lens-613/264539433525?hash=item3d97c76a35:g:wHgAAOSw5PJbDkVA

If anyone has any advice on how to find out if a board will work with a certain lens or where to reliably find recessed boards, I’d love to hear your input! I do think that 75mm would be the best focal length for me - my favourite subjects are wide angle landscapes, and on my full frame 35mm DSLR I normally stick to 14mm.

However, if there’s really no reliable way to purchase a lens and lens board without having to try a half dozen different boards just to see if it will fit the lens, maybe it’s best I stick to another focal length for now.

[Oslolens]

It looks right, but you have to ask. http://skgrimes.com/products/lens-boards/technika show all the Linhof lens boards, it could be for 6x9cm

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[Bernice Loui]

Why deciding on what print image goals first, lens selection to meet those print image goals then camera that meets ALL lens and camera movement demands at third highest.

With a folder, recess lens board is just the beginning of the list of problems. If significant camera movement is required, the standard bellows will be a limitation problem. Then comes the problem if front to rear standard alignment. To get the best optical performance from a short focal-wide angle of view lens, the front & rear standards need to have good, precise alignment and hold that alignment over the range of possible camera movements.

Personally, Flat refuse to use a recessed lens board for a long list of reasons. If the camera cannot accept the shortest possible focal length lens to be used with the standard flat lens board, the camera is a no-go.

If going to say a 90mm lens cures the need for a recessed lens board, do that and deeply consider the list of problems with a 75mm focal length lens..


Bernice

[Bob Salomon]

That lens is mounted on a Linhof Technika 45 board. If your camera accepts 45 Technika boards it will mount on your camera. Setting the controls on this board is no problem unless you have very fat fingers. In that case a pencil will help.
However, it is a Grandagon, not the later Grandagon N as he states in the listing details. It also has probably been mounted in that board after the lens was purchased as the right angle PC flash socket is not installed on the shutter. That socket is supplied when the board is bought new. Also the cable release QS system is not on the board. This will make mounting a cable release difficult, or impossible, unless you get the Gepe Wide Angle Cable Release Adapter cable.

[Ari]

Like Bernice said.
A 75mm will offer you almost zero movements, while a 90mm offers a lot of room for movements.
Consider the hassle you're already encountering in getting a 75mm to work on your camera, the recessed board (not fun to use, and a no-go for me as well) and the limited movements.
The only lens in that range worth getting is the 72XL, but that will cost you $800-$1100 and you'll still need a recessed board.

[LanndonKane]

That lens is mounted on a Linhof Technika 45 board. If your camera accepts 45 Technika boards it will mount on your camera.

Thanks a lot! Do you know if Linholf Technika 45 boards are 99x96mm? Otherwise, I'll drop Intrepid an email and see if they know...the only info they gave me previously was that the board size needed to be 99x96mm

[LanndonKane]

Like Bernice said.
A 75mm will offer you almost zero movements, while a 90mm offers a lot of room for movements.
Consider the hassle you're already encountering in getting a 75mm to work on your camera, the recessed board (not fun to use, and a no-go for me as well) and the limited movements.
The only lens in that range worth getting is the 72XL, but that will cost you $800-$1100 and you'll still need a recessed board.

Thanks, this is well worth the consideration - my backup plan is to get a "normal" 150mm length lens, just change up the way i shoot landscapes, and then when i'm further down the path i can start revisiting the 75mm with lens board fiasco if i find that i really miss those wide vistas and getting close to the subject.

[Bernice Loui]

90mm, 150mm to 210mm, 300mm would be the most typical three lens set on 4x5.

Most folks that use a 75mm on 4x5 do interiors and similar. This does not mean a 75mm is not useful else where, it is, just the difficulties with using a 75mm on a filter-field camera is not simple.


Bernice

[Peter De Smidt]

Why not just get a 90mm? How about a F/6.8 lens, and they are a good compromise between image brightness and size and weight?

[Doremus Scudder]

Lanndon,

As Bob points out, the lensboard should fit just fine on your camera. If you plan on using flash, figuring out how to connect the pc cable may be important. Of course, you can always remove the lens from the board, mount the cable, remount the lens and use it that way in a pinch, but unless you wanted a pigtail cord hanging off the lens, you'd have to remove it each time as well. If you don't use flash much (as I don't) then no problems.

The lens appears to have a cable-release adapter on it already (visible in the upper left, sticking out just above the lens), so you should have no problem connecting a cable release. However, if you do, angle adapters or the Gepe flexible adapter that Bob recommends are easily available. For many of my wide lenses mounted in recessed boards, I have found short, flexible cable releases that I mount before mounting the lens to the board. They stay permanently attached (as do cable releases on all my lenses). I have one lens in a recessed board with the QS system, basically a cable-release mount on the front of the board that connects to the shutter release on the lens with an angled wire. It works fine too. Boards with this system come up for sale separately from time to time.

FWIW, I have three or four short lenses mounted in Technika-style recessed boards. All of them have permanently-mounted cable releases. I operate the preview lever and set the aperture with the end of the cable release. The shutter speed ring I can turn with my fingers. Cocking the shutter is done with fingers or the end of the cable release as well. No real problems manipulating the controls.

And yes, even with a recessed board, the movements can be limited by bellows crimping. However, with a 75mm Grandagon, there shouldn't be much in the way of movements even possible, maybe a few mm of rise/shift. You can use the back for tilts/swings, since tilting the front would vignette rather quickly.

Let me make one more suggestion here too. You say you are "gravitating" toward the 75mm focal length. May I respectfully recommend that you don't get that short a lens as your first lens. If you want to go "wide," the 90mm length is a tried and true standard for 4x5 for a number of reasons. I use my 90mm 100 times to every time I drag out the 75mm lens. My most-used focal length is 135mm. If you don't have anything in the "normal" category yet, do start there. I like a 90mm f/8, 135mm Plasmat, and compact 200mm lens kit and recommend it highly for landscape/field work. If you do architecture and need lots of rise/shift, then a 90mm, 150mm Plasmat, 210mm Plasmat kit of larger lenses will serve you better.

Best,

Doremus

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks a lot! Do you know if Linholf Technika 45 boards are 99x96mm? Otherwise, I'll drop Intrepid an email and see if they know...the only info they gave me previously was that the board size needed to be 99x96mm

Just ask them if they take Linhof Technika 45 boards. Current ones. Just the dimensions won’t tell you if they fit since the corners are cut and there are pacers and light traps on the back.

[ic-racer]

Choose another lens. 75mm will be extremely difficult to use. Especially on a camera with no detents. 150mm is a great lens for 4x5 and will work well with your camera.

[Havoc]

Got a 75mm on a flat board with my Wista and it is not easy to use. Mostly because the standrad bellow is in the way. But far easier to use than the SA 90 on a recessed board...

[LanndonKane]

Thanks for all the helpful replies everyone! I do believe i will forgo the 75mm lens for now given this feedback! I can pick one up down the road if i find im still craving that ultra wide angle style.

[nlambrecht]

Thanks for all the helpful replies everyone! I do believe i will forgo the 75mm lens for now given this feedback! I can pick one up down the road if i find im still craving that ultra wide angle style.

One thing that I didn't see mentioned is that you can find different depths of recessed lens boards. A 20mm recess if much more difficult to use than a 10mm recess. Look at the limits of your camera and purchase only what you need.

I have a 58mm and a 75mm in recessed lens boards, both of mine are 10mm recess and I have no problem using the controls. However, it can be difficult if you are also using a slide in filter system such as Lee, or are using a center filter.

[Bernice Loui]

Possible to exceed either 58mm (Super Angulon XL) or 75mm (many brands) image circle with the camera at infinity focus? If not, the full capability of these two lenses is not fully utilized.


Bernice




I have a 58mm and a 75mm in recessed lens boards, both of mine are 10mm recess and I have no problem using the controls. However, it can be difficult if you are also using a slide in filter system such as Lee, or are using a center filter.

[nlambrecht]

Possible to exceed either 58mm (Super Angulon XL) or 75mm (many brands) image circle with the camera at infinity focus? If not, the full capability of these two lenses is not fully utilized.


Bernice

My camera's minimum extension is 60mm, the 58mm Super Angulon XL actually has a flange focal length of 70mm. I technically do not have to use a recessed lens board, but choose to because the bag bellows get compressed into the rear standard of my field camera with a flat board, making even slight camera movement difficult. A 10mm recessed lens board provides all the room I need for the camera movements that lens will allow without vignetting. My 75mm has a flange focal length of 84mm, so plenty of room there.

As to the original question on this thread:



I just purchased an Intrepid MK4 4x5, and I am having a LOT of difficulty selecting a lens. I am gravitating towards a 75mm lens, but the problem seems to be finding a suitable recessed lens board that will work with the lens combination.


The Intrepid Mark 4 says the minimum bellows extension is 75mm. Like I mentioned above my 75 Super Angulon actually focuses at infinity at 82mm. Theoretically that should work just fine on a flat lens board, but you probably want to check with other Intrepid users. Flange focal distances can be difficult to find with the loss of lens data on the original manufacturers website, but if you look hard enough you can still find it. The Ebony Camera website before it departed the world had a lens comparison table that showed "flange back" (or flange focal). You can find it on the wayback machine here: https://web.archive.org/web/20060209175106/http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html

Hope this helps, Nathan

[Dan Fromm]

Nathan, OP, if either of you wants to find manufacturers' information on lenses click the link in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion.

[nlambrecht]

Nathan, OP, if either of you wants to find manufacturers' information on lenses click the link in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion.

Thanks Dan for pointing out that thread. All of us can spend many social distancing days diving into your encyclopedia.