Can you guys recommend any good replacement Ground Glass/Fresnel Lens for my 4x5?

[manfrominternet]

I bought a barely used Linhof Technikardan 45 (not the 45s, the later model) 4x5 camera, but the fresnel screen is a little scratched up and I'd like to replace it. The current screen on this camera has two parts - a frosted fresnel screen and a protective clear outer glass with black squares and aspect ratios (6x12, 6x9, 6x7, and 6x6 medium format) imprinted on it.

Do any of you guys have any recommendations of good ground glass and/or fresnel screens that will work well with this camera? I had a great (and very long) conversation with Bill Maxwell about his screens for my camera, but his new and used screens are pretty expensive alike.

Also, the circular rings on the current fresnel screen I have are facing the lens, not the photographer. Is that correct?

[Bob Salomon]

You have the Linhof Super Screen with the Grid Cover Glass. It is no longer available and has been gone long enough that you would not be able to,find one.
But the current Linhof 45 Grid Screen and Fresnel are exceptionally good. Try them.

[Bob Salomon]

I bought a barely used Linhof Technikardan 45 (not the 45s, the later model) 4x5 camera, but the fresnel screen is a little scratched up and I'd like to replace it. The current screen on this camera has two parts - a frosted fresnel screen and a protective clear outer glass with black squares and aspect ratios (6x12, 6x9, 6x7, and 6x6 medium format) imprinted on it.

Do any of you guys have any recommendations of good ground glass and/or fresnel screens that will work well with this camera? I had a great (and very long) conversation with Bill Maxwell about his screens for my camera, but his new and used screens are pretty expensive alike.

Also, the circular rings on the current fresnel screen I have are facing the lens, not the photographer. Is that correct?
On the Super Screen the grooved side faces the photographer. That is why I added the glass overlay to protect those grooves.

[manfrominternet]

I'm confused. On the Linhof website it says to mount the 4x5 fresnel screen "with the grooves facing the lens." http://linhof.com/en/fresnelscheibe-4x5/

Is that a mistake?

[manfrominternet]

I'm confused. On the Linhof website it says to mount the 4x5 fresnel screen "with the grooves facing the lens." http://linhof.com/en/fresnelscheibe-4x5/

Is that a mistake?

Any takers? I’m confused as to which way the circular grooves on the Linhof fresnel should face.

Bob said that they should face the viewer, but under the mounting instructions on the Linhof fresnel page it instructs you to mount the fresnel with “the grooved side facing the lens.” http://linhof.com/en/fresnelscheibe-4x5/

I trust Bob on this, and I’m wondering if there’s a mistake on the Linhof page.

Can anyone help clear this up?

[David Lindquist]

I'm sure Bob will clarify this as soon as he sees it. The Linhof website is correct about the current fresnel lens, that the grooved side should face the lens. As I understand it the Super Screen did have the grooved side facing the viewer.

David

[Bob Salomon]

Any takers? I’m confused as to which way the circular grooves on the Linhof fresnel should face.

Bob said that they should face the viewer, but under the mounting instructions on the Linhof fresnel page it instructs you to mount the fresnel with “the grooved side facing the lens.” http://linhof.com/en/fresnelscheibe-4x5/

I trust Bob on this, and I’m wondering if there’s a mistake on the Linhof page.

Can anyone help clear this up?

You probably misread what I said.With the LInhof Super Screen the grooved side faced the eye because it was a single piece of acrylic and the frosted side had to face the lens. Because that left the delicate groovedside exposed we sold a grid glass plate to cover the grooved side.

With a regular gg Linhof places the Fresnel on top of the gg with the grooves facing the lens.

The Linhof Super Screen and the Grid GG were only sold by HP Marketing in the U.S., Linhof themselves never sold it but allowed us to use the Linhof name on it.

Similarly Linhof sold our HP Combina system of roll film and 45 and 57 daylight processing tanks as the Linhof tanks even though they never carried the Linhof logo on the tanks or the packages. Depending on the owner of the Combi system they were first labeled with the inventors name, Krause, or the Gepe name or the HP name.

[David Lindquist]

Unless you plan on using roll film backs, I'd suggest Linhof's 021804 ground glass. This has just a grid of squares of one cm by one cm. Their ground glass 021805 which seems to be the current standard equipment for the Master Technikas and the Technikardan 45 S has in addition to the grid, outlines for 6 x 7, 6 x 9 and 6 x 12 cm plus 9 x 12 cm. I found this a bit "busy".

The 021804 shown on the B & H website has an outline for 9 X 12 cm but I bought one from them in 2015 and it did not have this; I think what they show is an earlier version. Both Laflex and Linhof & Studio in Great Britain show this ground glass without the 9 x 12 cm rectangle.

David

[manfrominternet]

Ah, I see. Damn, I really wish I had known about this earlier. I’ve been using the Linhof Super Screen with the grooves facing the lens. I did, indeed, notice some loss of sharpness on my negatives, but it isn’t anything drastic because I stop down to f/22, usually.

The Linhof fresnel (the one currently available at Linhof Studio in the U.K.) is a little pricey for me, a rather impecunious grad student, at $142.

Do you guys have any recommendations of the current selection of 4x5 ground glass/fresnel replacements on eBay or anywhere else?

I was thinking this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Bright-Fresnel-Lens-Screen-Linhof-Toyo-Horseman-Tachihara-Sinar-4x5-Camera/202925796072?hash=item2f3f51eae8:g:gtEAAOSwDEBcO0~v

Or this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Linhof-Super-Technika-4x5-Camera-Fresnel-Lens-Ground-Glass-Best-quality/223195084337?hash=item33f776b631:g:b-AAAOSwfjVbyRS1

Or this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Bright-2-in-1-4x5-Ground-Glass-Fresnel-Focusing-Screen-Linhof-Sinar-Wista/184087552648?hash=item2adc792288:g:a5UAAOSw7eRdgyQM

Since I have the Linhof Super Screen, do I need a 2-in-1 fresnel/ground glass combo to replace it?

If you guys really think that I should spring for the $142 Linhof brand fresnel, I’ll go for it.

Many thanks! ��

[David Lindquist]

Ah, I see. Damn, I really wish I had known about this earlier. I’ve been using the Linhof Super Screen with the grooves facing the lens. I did, indeed, notice some loss of sharpness on my negatives, but it isn’t anything drastic because I stop down to f/22, usually.

The Linhof fresnel (the one currently available at Linhof Studio in the U.K.) is a little pricey for me, a rather impecunious grad student, at $142.

Do you guys have any recommendations of the current selection of 4x5 ground glass/fresnel replacements on eBay or anywhere else?

I was thinking this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Bright-Fresnel-Lens-Screen-Linhof-Toyo-Horseman-Tachihara-Sinar-4x5-Camera/202925796072?hash=item2f3f51eae8:g:gtEAAOSwDEBcO0~v

Or this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Linhof-Super-Technika-4x5-Camera-Fresnel-Lens-Ground-Glass-Best-quality/223195084337?hash=item33f776b631:g:b-AAAOSwfjVbyRS1

Or this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Bright-2-in-1-4x5-Ground-Glass-Fresnel-Focusing-Screen-Linhof-Sinar-Wista/184087552648?hash=item2adc792288:g:a5UAAOSw7eRdgyQM

Since I have the Linhof Super Screen, do I need a 2-in-1 fresnel/ground glass combo to replace it?

If you guys really think that I should spring for the $142 Linhof brand fresnel, I’ll go for it.

Many thanks! ��

The first item is a fresnel only so you would have to also get a ground glass. The last item sounds a lot like the Super Screen being an integral fresnel and (acrylic) ground glass plus a protective glass cover. I can't really make a recommendation among these three choices.

An additional thought here. How sure are you that you want a fresnel? There have been vociferous discussions about them here with some really disliking them and others really really liking them. I fall in the middle I guess. I like them but wouldn't give up photography if someone took them away. Thing is you could consider getting the Linhof ground glass (only) that I suggested from Linhof Studio. It's £95 or about $117.50 according to the currency conversion website I use. You could add a fresnel later if you really wanted to. Of course if you were to spring for the $142 Linhof fresnel today you would also have to get the ground glass. BTW I've been very happy in my dealings with Linhof Studio and the manager there Paula Pell-Johnson. And their Linhof prices can be a lot less than those of US vendors even with shipping and your credit card company's foreign transaction fee added on. Having said that I see there's not so much of a difference between B&H's and Linhof Studio's price for the ground glass (for the fresnel the difference is almost two fold.) Thing is B&H doesn't have these in stock and Linhof Studio almost undoubtedly does.

Just noticed your next-to-last question. Bob could answer this better than I. From the standpoint of plane of focus, as I understand it a properly installed Super Screen would have the "ground glass" surface in the same plane as would be occupied by a regular ground glass and so could be replaced by a regular ground glass without concerns of shimming or the like.

You may have noticed the used Super Screen on ebay. It may be in even worse shape than yours.

David

[manfrominternet]

To replace my Linhof Super Screen, do you guys think I’m better off with getting only a standard genuine Linhof ground glass vs. a generic ground glass/fresnel combo? I ask because, like David mentioned (thank you, David!), I’m not sure that I necessarily need a fresnel right now. I may want to add it later. However, I would like to start doing night color photography a la Todd Hido, so I don’t know if just a standard Linhof ground glass would suffice.

It’s basically a question of what will best replace the Linhof Super Screen I have. Btw, I did check out the Linhof Super Screen currently up on eBay and it is indeed far more beat up than my Super Screen.

[Bob Salomon]

To replace my Linhof Super Screen, do you guys think I’m better off with getting only a standard genuine Linhof ground glass vs. a generic ground glass/fresnel combo? I ask because, like David mentioned (thank you, David!), I’m not sure that I necessarily need a fresnel right now. I may want to add it later. However, I would like to start doing night color photography a la Todd Hido, so I don’t know if just a standard Linhof ground glass would suffice.

It’s basically a question of what will best replace the Linhof Super Screen I have. Btw, I did check out the Linhof Super Screen currently up on eBay and it is indeed far more beat up than my Super Screen.

A fresnel evenly distributes the light across the gg. This can be very important for nighttime photography, unless you don’t want to bother seeing, clearly, what is at the edges and corners of your scene.

[manfrominternet]

A fresnel evenly distributes the light across the gg. This can be very important for nighttime photography, unless you don’t want to bother seeing, clearly, what is at the edges and corners of your scene.

Bob, I apologize if this sounds like a ridiculous question, but would it work if I buy only the current Linhof Fresnel (to replace the Linhof Super Screen) and combine it with the Clear Grid Cover glass (from the Linhof Super Screen setup), or would I also need the Linhof 45 Ground Glass to replace the Clear Grid Cover glass as well.

I ask because another photographer said that, with my current setup, I would only need the Linhof Fresnel and use that to replace the Linhof Super Screen and use the Clear Grid Cover glass that I currently have to protect it, basically swapping out the Linhof Super Screen for the new Linhof Fresnel.

Much appreciated!

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, I apologize if this sounds like a ridiculous question, but would it work if I buy only the current Linhof Fresnel (to replace the Linhof Super Screen) and combine it with the Clear Grid Cover glass (from the Linhof Super Screen setup), or would I also need the Linhof 45 Ground Glass to replace the Clear Grid Cover glass as well.

I ask because another photographer said that, with my current setup, I would only need the Linhof Fresnel and use that to replace the Linhof Super Screen and use the Clear Grid Cover glass that I currently have to protect it, basically swapping out the Linhof Super Screen for the new Linhof Fresnel.

Much appreciated!

No. You need a separate gg to use with a fresnel. A gg can be used by itself but a fresnel can’t be used alone.

Whoever said that does not know what you need. And the grid gg cover hasn’t been available new for a couple of decades. We discontinued it along with the Super Screen.

[manfrominternet]

How do you feel about the current selection of 2-in-1 ground glass/fresnel combos that are available on, say, eBay?

There’s a 2-in-1 ground glass/fresnel made by eTone on eBay. Would that be a good Linhof Super Screen replacement or would my money be better spent on the Linhof 45 Ground Glass and Linhof Fresnel or a Boss Screen or something?

[Bob Salomon]

How do you feel about the current selection of 2-in-1 ground glass/fresnel combos that are available on, say, eBay?

There’s a 2-in-1 ground glass/fresnel made by eTone on eBay. Would that be a good Linhof Super Screen replacement or would my money be better spent on the Linhof 45 Ground Glass and Linhof Fresnel or a Boss Screen or something?

The reason that we discontinued the Super Screen is that with 2 five inch long, unsupported sides, it could warp. Our manufacturer, Fresnel Optics in Rochester, NY, who also owned Beattie, could not supply a version that would not warp.
Unless the one piece ones sold on various sites can guarantee you that their screen can not warp, or provide some means of support for the long edges, stay far away from them.

We replaced any one that warped,with later versions, that still could warp, or with the latest gg and Fresnel from Linhof.

The Boss Screen is two pieces of plain glass held together with a layer of parrafin was. It is very possible for the screen to become heated enough, especially in a car, for the wax to melt and then reset in an alligator pattern. Additionally the bottom side of the sandwich is not the image forming layer so, if the screen is not specifically made for a Linhof you will either be out of focus by the thickness of that bottom glass or the gg shims on the camera back have to be reset to compensate for this problem.

We were offered the Boss Screen to distribute in the USA when it first came out. But it was never designed to be a camera screen. The original idea was a screen about 11x14” for video transfers from slides and movies. For this purpose it was great! But it never caught on for that use and then they made them for gg. But virtually every camera brand had to have its own screen due to the offset from the bottom wax position.

I would be very careful about one.

[sanking]

How do you feel about the current selection of 2-in-1 ground glass/fresnel combos that are available on, say, eBay?

There’s a 2-in-1 ground glass/fresnel made by eTone on eBay. Would that be a good Linhof Super Screen replacement or would my money be better spent on the Linhof 45 Ground Glass and Linhof Fresnel or a Boss Screen or something?

I used one of these dual ground glass /fresnel lens with a folding field camera for almost two decades, and it never warped, at least not enough that I could notice. At the time I was using the camera a lot in places where I could not replace the ground glass so the fact that it could not be broken was far more important to me that slight risk of distorting. Over that period of time the screen did get scratched a lot and I eventually replaced it with a regular ground glass when I could not locate another dual screen of the same size.

Sandy

[manfrominternet]

Off of what Bob said, it sounds like I’d do well to just get the Linhof 45 Ground Glass and the Linhof Fresnel. Bob, if I go that route, do I have to “reset” the 4 little metal bars that originally held the Linhof Super Screen at a certain distance from the back assembly of my Technikardan 45 to a new distance, or is it simply a matter of swapping out the old Linhof Super Screen/Clear Grid Protective Glass for the new Linhof Fresnel/Linhof 45 Ground Glass, respectively?

Sandy, do you remember what brand was the 2-in-1 ground glass/Fresnel that you had?

[Bob Salomon]

Off of what Bob said, it sounds like I’d do well to just get the Linhof 45 Ground Glass and the Linhof Fresnel. Bob, if I go that route, do I have to “reset” the 4 little metal bars that originally held the Linhof Super Screen at a certain distance from the back assembly of my Technikardan 45 to a new distance, or is it simply a matter of swapping out the old Linhof Super Screen/Clear Grid Protective Glass for the new Linhof Fresnel/Linhof 45 Ground Glass, respectively?

Sandy, do you remember what brand was the 2-in-1 ground glass/Fresnel that you had?
As long as they have not been reset by a prior owner there is no reason to touch them.

[David Lindquist]

Off of what Bob said, it sounds like I’d do well to just get the Linhof 45 Ground Glass and the Linhof Fresnel. Bob, if I go that route, do I have to “reset” the 4 little metal bars that originally held the Linhof Super Screen at a certain distance from the back assembly of my Technikardan 45 to a new distance, or is it simply a matter of swapping out the old Linhof Super Screen/Clear Grid Protective Glass for the new Linhof Fresnel/Linhof 45 Ground Glass, respectively?

Sandy, do you remember what brand was the 2-in-1 ground glass/Fresnel that you had?

manfrominternet, I sent you a PM.

David

[sanking]

Sandy, do you remember what brand was the 2-in-1 ground glass/Fresnel that you had?

Sorry, that was a long time ago. I remember buying the fresnel/ground glass from Edmund Scientific, but don't believe I ever knew the actual brand name. And when I tried to purchase a new one a decade or so later Edmund no longer had it in stock.

Sandy

[manfrominternet]

manfrominternet, I sent you a PM.

David

PMed you back! Many, many thanks!!!

-Kristian

[manfrominternet]

Hey all,

So I'm happy to report that, thanks to David Lindquist's selfless generosity, I have a genuine Linhof 45 Ground Glass. David was kind enough to send it to me without even asking for a cent. I promise to pay that generosity forward. Nice to know that there are really good people out there. :)

Anyway, I installed the Linhof Ground Glass and bought the Linhof Fresnel from Linhof Studio a few days ago. The Linhof Fresnel just came in today and I just installed it. The grooved/ring side of the Linhof Fresnel sits facing the ground glass/lens on the user side of the camera. So the Fresnel basically sits on the outside of the ground glass.

My question is this: Since the Linhof Fresnel is basically a delicate-looking piece of plastic (probably plexiglass) that sits on the outside of the Ground Glass, how do I prevent said Fresnel from getting all scratched up from, say, my magnifying loupe?

[David Lindquist]

Hey all,

So I'm happy to report that, thanks to David Lindquist's selfless generosity, I have a genuine Linhof 45 Ground Glass. David was kind enough to send it to me without even asking for a cent. I promise to pay that generosity forward. Nice to know that there are really good people out there. :)

Anyway, I installed the Linhof Ground Glass and bought the Linhof Fresnel from Linhof Studio a few days ago. The Linhof Fresnel just came in today and I just installed it. The grooved/ring side of the Linhof Fresnel sits facing the ground glass/lens on the user side of the camera. So the Fresnel basically sits on the outside of the ground glass.

My question is this: Since the Linhof Fresnel is basically a delicate-looking piece of plastic (probably plexiglass) that sits on the outside of the Ground Glass, how do I prevent said Fresnel from getting all scratched up from, say, my magnifying loupe?

Thank you very much for your kind and generous acknowledgment. Full disclosure: the ground glass I gave manfrominternet (I know his real name) came as original equipment on my Linhof. It's the one that has markings for 6 X 7, 6 X 9, 6 X 12 and 9 X 12cm. I found this a bit "busy" and since I didn't expect to ever get any roll film backs I replaced it with 021804, the ground glass with just the square centimeter grid, leaving the original ground glass excess to my needs. I was very very generously and voluntarily compensated for shipping and handling and I have the satisfaction knowing this is now in the hands of someone who will do good work with it.

I'll be interested to hear peoples comments regarding the concern about scratching the Fresnel as I have them also.

David

[cowanw]

https://www.gelivableglass.com/ads-page.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtT1BRCiARIsAGlY51InHdOpFoGglnJYKVSO350W4GhXZQi494zMB9sTCi7-TKYG-xILNggaAriHEALw_wcB
maybe you can get a proper sized gorilla glass cover.

[Bob Salomon]

Thank you very much for your kind and generous acknowledgment. Full disclosure: the ground glass I gave manfrominternet (I know his real name) came as original equipment on my Linhof. It's the one that has markings for 6 X 7, 6 X 9, 6 X 12 and 9 X 12cm. I found this a bit "busy" and since I didn't expect to ever get any roll film backs I replaced it with 021804, the ground glass with just the square centimeter grid, leaving the original ground glass excess to my needs. I was very very generously and voluntarily compensated for shipping and handling and I have the satisfaction knowing this is now in the hands of someone who will do good work with it.

I'll be interested to hear peoples comments regarding the concern about scratching the Fresnel as I have them also.

David

The grooved side is delicate, but any good loupe won’t scratch either side. Some really inexpensive loupes from China had a rough bottom edge that could scratch. But those had clear skirts and were not designed for gg use. An example would be the 10x copy of the old Agfa loupe compared to the Spanish copy one.