Edge Effects?

[John_4185]

Kevin B's post regarding slow rotation w/JOBO brought this to mind again.

I would be dearly interested in seeing edge effects. If I have ever seen an edge effect, then perhaps I am not recognizing them. Any examples to show the effect would be greatly appreciated.

[Michael Veit]

I think Sandy King posted some extreme crops that clearly showed them quite a while ago. Maybe he could re-post.

As for myself, I've tried all different kinds of film/developer combinations with stand and semi-stand development and have never been able to achieve them. I was of the opinion they were a myth until I saw King's examples.

[sanking]

I can not locate the sample files I posted to show edge effects but if memory serves they were posted on photo.net about two years ago. A search of the site might find them.

The comment about slow rotation with JOBO brought something to mind that may be worth pursuing. There are several causes of edge effects but one of them is that the film is allowed to rest. Most people do this with stand development, using moderately dilute solutions. I believe it might also be possible to also get very good edge effects with extremely dilute developers used with very slow rotation, the idea being that the developer will exhaust locally when parts of the film are out of the solution, which is at least half of the time.

BTW, when edge effects are so pronounced as in the image files I posted on photo.net they obviously detract from the pictorial qualities of the image, so what you want is just enough to increase apparent sharpness but not so much that the image looks artificial. This is somewhat analagous to the use of the Unsharp mask in Photoshop. A little is good but too much ruins the image.

[Bruce Watson]

If you have access to a local university's library, you might find copies of the Henry and Haist books somewhere in the stacks. One or both have discussions about and illustrations of edge effects. If you just want to see examples of edge effects, that's where I'd start.

[Scott Davis]

I have some images I posted that show good edge effects, at least in the real print. I can't remember the image file titles, or I'd post the link now. When I get home, I'll find the file names and post a link.

[John_4185]

If you have access to a local university's library,

oooooh, that's going to leave a mark.

My office is in a university library. I'm fifty steps from the photography stacks. :) Only book is Haist's the Monobath Manual.

[Craig Wactor]

here (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008De0) is the link to Sandy's post

[Andrew O'Neill]

"so what you want is just enough to increase apparent sharpness but not so much that the image looks artificial. This is somewhat analagous to the use of the Unsharp mask in Photoshop. A little is good but too much ruins the image."

Sandy is absolutely correct here. I've found a rest period of two minutes after 5 sec agitations in pyrocat-HD sufficient (in a tray). You also minimize the risk of uneven development, mottling, etc.

[paulr]

how much is enough vs. how much is too much will depend on the amount of enlargement, among other things. edge effects that work beautifully and subliminally in a contact print may look coarse and nasty in a 4X enlargement.

this is one nice thing about unsharp masking ... you can choose the radius to match your intended print size. you can also restrict it to edges (so it doesn't increase grain and nooise in areas of smooth tone) and restrict it to midtones, where it does the most good and the least harm.

my hat would go off to anyone who's found this degree of control through development.

[sanking]

Paulr: "my hat would go off to anyone who's found this degree of control through development."

Yes, my hat is also off that person. Obtaining this degree of control in development is not a simple matter. But it can be done.

Ultimately it boils down to nothing more and nothing less than how much control of his/her process a person wants to maintain. Some people are perfectly happy to just make a "picture." Others want more.

[paulr]

I think the trick would be getting that level of control over the edge effects without losing sight of the more important things--like the tonal scale, or getting out of the darkroom once in a while to take pictures or to eat!

[sanking]

"I think the trick would be getting that level of control over the edge effects without losing sight of the more important things--like the tonal scale, or getting out of the darkroom once in a while to take pictures or to eat!"

The important things are all of the above, i.e. tonal scale, getting out an making negatives, eating, and more, say havings good sex, etc. etc.

Just avoid small and mediocre minds that suggest that any of these activities suggest polarities that place us in conflict.

[sanking]

"my hat would go off to anyone who's found this degree of control through development."

My original response to this may have suggested that there is a wider range of control from edge effect than is the case. Compared to the use of the unsharp mask in Photoshop, for example, the range is quite limited. Yes, it is possible to produce some very pronounced edge effects with stand development, but at the risk of uneven development. Most people who have managed to make good use of adjacency effects do so with subjects that mininize the impact of uneven develoment, say very textured subjects with no large expanses of even tones. I personally would never risk an important negative with stand or semi-stand development if there were large areas of even tones, say a scene with a lot of sky.

[John_4185]

Sandy King I personally would never risk an important negative with stand or semi-stand development if there were large areas of even tones, say a scene with a lot of sky.


I use stand development quite specifically to maintain large areas of even tones, for example cloudless blue skies. I've not had a problem yet. But I use true stand developing in which the developer expires.

[William Mortensen]

"The important things are all of the above, i.e. tonal scale, getting out and making negatives, eating, and more, say havings good sex, etc. etc. Just avoid small and mediocre minds that suggest that any of these activities suggest polarities that place us in conflict." --Sandy King

So, uh, Sandy... you can eat *and* have sex while working in the darkroom?

Ummmm... offering any workshops in the near future?

[sanking]

"So, uh, Sandy... you can eat *and* have sex while working in the darkroom? "

Mark,

I never eat in the darkroom.

Have nothing planned in the way of workshops until next summer at the Formulary -- early June I believe. However, I schedule private workshops at my home in SC from time to time.