PDA

View Full Version : Ebony cameras in below freezing temperature



Santiago Vanegas
18-Dec-2005, 20:17
Has anyone had any experience with Ebony cameras in below freezing temperature. Do these low temperatures present any problems to the ebony wood? Will it crack or warp? If these cameras are vulnerable to these cold conditions, what is recommended to reduce/avoid damage to the camera?

Steve Hamley
18-Dec-2005, 20:26
Santiago,

I've used both of mine - one ebony wood and one mahogany - below freezing many, many times - no problems. Don't worry, just go shoot. You'll have more trouble with lenses and filters fogging in cold weather, the camera is bullet proof, at least to the point shutters would get slow.

Steve

austin granger
18-Dec-2005, 20:40
To second Steve's comment, I used my ebony (mahogany wood) once when it was 15 degrees below zero didn't have any problems.

Well, to be honest, I did have some problems, but none of them were with the camera. It's hard to photograph when it's 15 below zero!

I highly recommed those mittens that transform into fingerless gloves. But I suppose that's another post...

Eric Leppanen
19-Dec-2005, 00:55
No problems with my Ebony either when shooting at below freezing temperatures. At least in my experience, the photographer experienced far more problems in the cold than the camera!

Pierre Kervella
19-Dec-2005, 06:04
I have also used several times my Ebony SW45 below freezing temperatures, without any problem. I found that the major concern with wooden cameras is when you use them in very hot and humid weather (tropical): the wood can "inflate" slightly, making the adjustments difficult. But this is not specific to one brand or the other.

Michael Gordon
19-Dec-2005, 09:59
Hate to sound like a smartass, but wood comes from trees, and trees persist through conditions that kill humans. I'd worry more about the photographer :)

tim atherton
19-Dec-2005, 10:18
"Hate to sound like a smartass, but wood comes from trees, and trees persist through conditions that kill humans. I'd worry more about the photographer :)"

I've stood beside a tree that cracked in two down the core of the trunk with a sound like a rifle shot at -40c. At -30c I've had leather bellows that become so stiff you couldn't contract them and close the camera down.

Differential adjacent metal parts can contract at siginifcantly different rates and jam (metal on wood part can do the same and jam tight - had that with the rail guides on a deardorff).

It really varies from brand to brand and model to model. Some have no problems at all, others do. I've had wood cameras that have jamed up and metal ones as well, and vice versa - both types that worked just fine. I've had new cameras whose bellows stiffend up horribly and 30 year old synthetic bellows that worked no problem... Hence it's probably best to ask if anyone has used a particular camera in such conditions...

Santiago Vanegas
19-Dec-2005, 10:57
"Hate to sound like a smartass, but wood comes from trees, and trees persist through conditions that kill humans. I'd worry more about the photographer :)

--Michael E. Gordon 2005-12-19 08:59 PST"

I understand your point, but trees are not precision instruments. They are living organisms that are constantly changing, growing, and reacting to their environment. Cameras are precision instruments that require maintaining their structural integrity to function properly. IMHO, the tree analogy isn't relevant to the question.

Bob Younger
19-Dec-2005, 12:24
The mink-liner coats are backordered for six months!!!
And the fitted beaver-skin wrappers for the focusing nobs that keep bare fingers off cold titanium are almost 9 months backordered!

So, I've resorted to some form-fitting neoprene type gloves. I found that even with the fingerless gloves that have the mitten wrap over the fingers, once I'd held onto that focusing knob for very long I never could get my hands warm again.

But, I've never had any problems with the wooden cameras, either my Deardorff or the Ebony (mahogany version). Fogging the ground glass or the lenses can be a problem.

Bob Younger

Michael Gordon
19-Dec-2005, 12:27
IMHO, the tree analogy isn't relevant to the question.

OK then..... I'm not an arborist, but I have a mahogany Ebony (for the weight savings), and my guess is that mahogany might be more susceptible to environmental conditions than ebony. I've used my mahogany Ebony numerous times in rain, snow, sleet, very high humidity, very low humidity, 100+f temperatures and below 32f (just yesterday, in fact) and it has not reacted adversely in those conditions, nor does it show any signs of trauma or wear from those conditions as a result.

I'd worry more about my lens shutters than my wooden camera, but that's me.

austin granger
19-Dec-2005, 12:41
No MinkLinerCoat, but one time during a fast approaching rainstorm, I took off my parka and, disregarding my own comfort, threw it over my camera atop its tripod. ("Save the women and children and ebonies first!") Then I crouched down under my little 'teepee' shelter. Unfortunately, even though I use an 8x10, I didn't quite fit and icy rain water streamed down my neck and completely soaked my back.

It was glorious!

Ted Harris
19-Dec-2005, 13:20
I just spent the past 3 days shooting in temperatures ranging from -10F to ~ 18F. First time I took a Toyo AII out in these conditions. I find it to be far and away the msot convenient camera I have ever used in these conditions. The super large knobs and teflon coatings make all movements easy to use even wearing heavy mittens. The bellows remained supple as well. I have worked in these temperatures with Ebony RW, Horseman FA., Phillips 4x5 and Compact II, Wisner Traditional, Canham Traditional 57 and Walker Titan SF. The Canham is a close runner up to the Toyo and the Phillips are ok; all the rest are a pain compared to the first mentioned. The Toyo's knobs make it a dream below freezing compared to anythiong else.

Eric Leppanen
19-Dec-2005, 13:46
Where can one purchase said MinkLinerCoat and fitted beaver-skin focusing knob wrappers?

John_4185
19-Dec-2005, 13:46
The mink-liner coats are backordered for six months!!!

Say, do you think there's a market for something like that? Ya see, many years ago when the Vegans and Animal Rights types took to intimidating fur wearers, my mate scarfed up a whole bunch of Mink coats, free! There's gotta be some poseur gear we can make with 'em.

Speaking of Vegans, tell me: if we aren't supposed to eat meat, why are animals made of it?

Now, if you want a painfull experience, you have to open an old Technika at -30F barehanded. Then extend the bellows, praying it doesn't rip off a mount, then cuss at the Germans who never dreamed it would be used in a climate other than their temperate zone. (Same for those freaking VW Bugs!)

tim atherton
19-Dec-2005, 13:56
"I just spent the past 3 days shooting in temperatures ranging from -10F to ~ 18F. First time I took a Toyo AII out in these conditions. I find it to be far and away the msot convenient camera I have ever used in these conditions. "

Ted, My Toyo 45A was the first LF camera I used out in seriously cold weather and (apart from adding a bit of rubber to the knobs which the 45A lacks) it is probably still the best. I've used it down to -40c/f and it's always worked well. If I have to to any architetural work below -25c, it's what i will chose.

I've used and Arca and a Tecnikarden in those temps and neither was as good. The Arca controls stiffen up. The Technikarden - little bits of plastic kept breaking off....

I've used the Phillips Compact II and a Dorf as well. The Phillips does pretty well. The Dorf was showing its age.

robert_4927
19-Dec-2005, 14:27
IMHO, At -40 there isn't a picture there anyway.

John_4185
19-Dec-2005, 14:31
IMHO, At -40 there isn't a picture there anyway.

-40 WHAT? :()

My son called and told me he's changing his major to under-water photography. I wondered what that was all about until I learned that his grade-point average was below C level.

Like father, like... (beat you to it!)

tim atherton
19-Dec-2005, 14:33
wimp...

I've done whole magazine stories at -35 to - 40c. Or a building has just been completed and is ready for occupancy. The architect, engineers, project manager and client are all flying in for the final inspection. What do they do - hire a plane just for you when it's warmer...

What do you do when it's cold...? just not bother to work - must be nice

John_4185
19-Dec-2005, 15:04
Tim, I've some friends you would like to work with. I'll save the stories and give you just a few lines from my favorite photographer: "I was waist deep into the bear's den and my eyes were getting used to the darkness. I could smell the hibernating sow. I put the little flash off-shoulder to bounce, advanced the film and "SNAP!" it broke in two. Kodachrome II sucks at sub-zero."

(National Geographic photog. He knows he screwed up. He did go back in.)

Michael Gordon
19-Dec-2005, 16:04
Speaking of Vegans, tell me: if we aren't supposed to eat meat, why are animals made of it?

If we aren't supposed to eat humans, why are they made of meat?

Soylent Green lives.

Paul Kierstead
19-Dec-2005, 16:58
Actually, working in the very cold is an interesting problem. I have spend some time with my Wisner Flight in a bout -15 C to -20 C. My particular one gets a little stiff (skip the jokes) at those temps but is still usable. The knobs are too small and get difficult to operate even with very thin gloves; some of them (like rear swing) are difficult in bare hands and nigh near impossible with gloves. I switched to neoprene gloves with sure-grip palms under snow-mobile mitts and that is better, but the neoprene ones are waterproof and capture sweat too much so I need new ones...

The biggest problem I have found over and over again is I can't hold my breath and focus at the same time, resulting in fogged/frozen GG. I am tempted to use a breathing tube. Also, my very nice advanced darkcloth (can't remember the brand, but formed with white outside, black inside) gets much to stiff in the extreme cold to be used at all; I use a fleece blanket. The light meter can get difficult as well if the batteries are low and you keep it out. Footware is a huge deal; just standing there is much much colder then moving. I use snowmobile boots rated to "-100 C" (when moving). They seem warm enough.

My biggest problem remains equipment mangement in the snow (while setting up for the shoot). You almost need some kind of table, or a sheet to throw on the ground. How do you guys manage this?

Sal Santamaura
19-Dec-2005, 17:22
"-40 WHAT? :()"

-40F = -40C. The scales intersect there.

Michael Gordon
19-Dec-2005, 17:25
I'm no expert in working in the coldest of climates given that I live in and do most of my photography in the balmy state of California, but I deal with fogging ground glass by using goop for diving goggles - specifically 'Sea Drops' by McNett Outdoor. The trick is to not remove too much of the goop from the glass. Put it on, spread it around to a thin coat, and then let it dry. Don't buff off the coating as you would when cleaning spectacles. The stuff really works.

As for working in snow, if I'm dayhiking I work straight out of my LowePro Wilderness Trekker. I lay it on the ground, open it up, and there's my 'table'. If I'm working out of a larger non-photo pack on multi-day trips, I do roughly the same thing. Empty out what you need, lay the pack down, and just set the gear on top of it.

Paul Kierstead
19-Dec-2005, 20:32
I might have to check out Sea Drops, see if it works well below freezing.

'round here, the snow tends to be deep and sometimes soft; just setting your bag down can result in some snow getting places you would prefer it didn't. When you open the top, it gets worse as the top is thin and lying in the snow it tends to get snowy. And I worry about dropping things in the snow and not noticing....maybe I just need to get more methodical and organized.

John_4185
19-Dec-2005, 21:45
If we aren't supposed to eat humans, why are they made of meat?

If Vegetarians eat only vegetables, then god save us from humanitarians!

robert_4927
19-Dec-2005, 22:00
"I've done whole magazine stories at -35 to -40c...... " what do you do when it's cold?... not bother to work?...." ..WIMP? " Tim , now working in those conditions just may be what trips your trigger.. and granted I grew up in Buffalo winters and spent 5 yr. in Alaska. But if I have to work in those kid of temps then personally I feel that I must really suck as a photographer and that's the only work I can get. Yes you are right...I don't have to work and can't remember being -40 C hungry enough to have to. You see, for thirty years I built skyscrapers and bridges all over the great lakes... Cleveland, Chicago, Buffalo..ect...ect. (Ever spent a winter in Buffalo?) My world,( an Ironworkers world) most of the time was 4 inches wide and over 150 feet in the air. I only wish I could have just set up a tripod and camera and made a few shots instead of hanging by my balls over a river at -20 swinging a 10lb sledge and driving barrel pins in a bridge girder to make that connection. I've watched men fall and bounch off of iron for 25 floors before they got scraped off of the pavement and sent to their family. These are men I went on three day drunks with, laughed with, cried with and buried brothers with. If that constitutes being labeled a wimp then I'll proudly wear that title.

tim atherton
19-Dec-2005, 22:10
ah Robert - you miss the point. First -40c ain't really that bad (+ diamond mines don't stop work because it's only -40c - heck, most of the time school keeps on going). Secondly, I've got some of my best photographs at those times. Stay at home in bed and you miss them. The light and the colours are something you'll find at no other time

Eric Fredine
19-Dec-2005, 22:15
I've had my Ebony 45SU, an Ebony version, out in -30C to -40C temperatures without incident or difficulties - controls worked fine and the bellows didn't get stiff. I have more trouble with tripod heads in these temperatures - the controls can get very stiff and difficult to operate.

adrian tyler
20-Dec-2005, 00:22
the so called "meat" you people are so smugly puttng inside your intestines is so full of toxins and steroids and other chemicals that i think i'd rather stick to lentils... just something to think about, you really know what is good for your cameras, but seem to know nothing about what is good for your digestive system... oh, and by the way i'm no vagan fundamentalist, but all that smug laughter is a bit too ignorant, your digestive sysem is a machine just like your camera, get wise.

John_4185
20-Dec-2005, 01:11
your digestive sysem is a machine just like your camera, get wise.

True, both consume gelatin, which is an animal product. Hold on... are you sneaking in kind of anti-film thing?

(jjs's postulate: all lost threads lead to a digital rant.)

adrian tyler
20-Dec-2005, 03:50
definetly! film, like the animals we eat, are dead!