Is Bender the only 4x5 kit out there?

[Garrett Lee]

Hello.

I have decided to take the plunge and supplement my Canon Elan with an LF camera. I've decided to get a 4x5, since I have an Omega D-series enlarger and that's the most it will take. Seeing as I have some skill with carpentry and love to work with my hands, I would like to build it myself. The amount of time and tools needed for assembly is irrelevant (assuming I don't need access to a 5-axis CNC milling machine, a TIG welder, and a vertical bandsaw; if I need that, I'll put the camera on hold for a while). I have seen the Bender 4x5 and read a lot of reviews, nearly all positive, so I think I will get it, but does anyone know of any other kits out there? I don't want to be having a case of buyer's remorse because I see another one ten minutes after I place the order.

(Just for information's sake, one reason I'm going with LF is that windows and frames seem to feature prominently whenever I go out and burn up a roll of 35mm on whatever catches my eye, and I would love to be able to keep the lines straight rather than converging in my shots. Another reason is the fact that I can get my parents to help me with the cost of the camera this year, but after I move to college in the fall, no luck. I'd rather foot the bill for a MF than for an LF camera, lens, other accesories, and all the tools my parents have that I would be using to build it.)

Garrett Lee

[John_4185]

I have built a couple 4x5 Benders.

I will keep this short - while it is a pretty camera, and Jay Bender does a downright remarkable job of selecting and accurately cutting every piece, it ain't a field camera. The most agravating nuisance is that the movements do not lock down adequately, however they can be made to do so by gluing some wet/dry sandpaper on an opposed sliding part. But that's not a good long-term solution. It is also a very fragile camera. Anf finally, for what he's selling them for, you can buy a better used 4x5 body today.

You don't need any more tools than Jay suggests, which I think was just some sandpaper, a flat piece of glass and breadboard, straight-edge, a couple clamps and a little screwdriver. Oh, people go out and buy all kinds of jigs but that is because they can't bear to read the friggin directions and actually follow them - the instructions work and are a rather good study ingenius, economic thinking.

But it ain't a real camera.

[eric mac]

There are quite a few diy webpages for Large format cameras. Quite honestly, you can probably but a used graflex or something for the money you spend on materials. However, it is the challenge and pride of workmanship that drives most of us to try to build our own. Here is a link to whet your appetite.

http://www.cyberbeach.net/~dbardell/index.html

There are a couple more sites that have home brew cameras. Do the usual search and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Eric

PS Contact me off site and I'll send you a copy of the Aletta plans. (another saga in itself.)

[Bill_1856]

When you print your 35mm negatives, an off-square perspective can be easily corrected by tilting your easel on the enlarer (or Photoshop if you're scanning and printing digitally). You don't need a 4x5 to do that. Or you could get a nice Perspective Control lens for your Canon and do it when you make the picture.

[Christopher Nisperos]

The English company, Camera Bellows, has a great looking kit-camera due out at any moment. I haven't used it yet, but I saw a prototype at Photokina 2004 (Garrett, that's the biennial international photo equipment convention), and I mentioned it in this forum in a "Photokina report" while the show was still going on (the other 'scoop' was the Schneider Fine Art lenses)..

The assembled product looked very good, with an excellent "finish quality". It may be worth waiting to see, before you make a final decision. I don't know who will be distributing this camera in the U.S., but check with your local camera dealer for Lee filters, as they are the parent company for Camera Bellows. They weren't sure about the selling price at the time, but they were knocking around a figure of "about $200. to $250." . But don't hold me (or them) to it!

Hope this helps you find an affordable solution.

[fred arnold]

I built a bender 4x5 a few years back, and would say that it's a real camera, but it's not a fancy, modern, camera. With mine I have two issues: (1) the springs on the back needed to be tightened so that I could reliably use an old Calumet C2 roll-film back in vertical orientation, and (2) it's a monorail, which is less than convenient in the field. I've since supplemented it with a 4x5 tailboard Burke and James, which is rigid and compact when folded for travel.


With a short rail, simple modification of the front standard, and a bag bellows, it makes a nice field camera for use with a wide-angle lens. I also have a number of pictures that I'm very pleased with, shot with a 203 mm lens out on hikes. It is certainly a capable piece of equipment, and it's very light, as well as a lot of fun to build. I had an amusing encounter once with another tourist who'd hiked a couple of miles with an RZ-67, where we compared relative bulk and weight. The Bender comes off rather well in that kind of competition.


One of these days, I'll get around to copying the B&J's bed design, swap out the rail, and start using the Bender while hiking again. You'll have to decide whether you enjoy woodworking as much as you do photography.


On the other hand, LF cameras are fairly inexpensive now, and someone like KEH, MPEX, or Badger, can probably set you up with a used camera pre-assembled for about the same money.

[John_4185]

http://www.zoerk.com/media/images/Digital-MFS-ProSA.jpg

bill Or you could get a nice Perspective Control lens for your Canon

Not the same thing. See the camera above. Sad, isn't it?

[Bill_1856]

I have a very useful 35mm P.C. Nikkor with adapter which works well on my Canon Elan.

[steve simmons]

I have always said if you want to build a kit get a Bender but if you want a camera get a camera. The Bender is a crude monorail that i would not recommend as a using camera.

If you want to get into large format may I suggest one of these books

Large Format Nature Photography by Jack Dykinga

Using the View Camera that i wrote a few years ago

User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone

also, there are several articles on the view camera web site that will be helpful to you

www.viewcamera.com

and then go to the Free Articles section

good luck

steve simmons

[Brian Ellis]

I've never used a Bender but I have a friend who used one for several years. He made some excellent photographs with it. Nevertheless, as others have said, it's the most basic and crude of all LF cameras. If you have woodworking experience and enjoy that kind of thing I think you'd be better served by buying a different camera that's not in the best of condition and spending your time fixing it up rather than building a Bender.

If the city where you live has a decent library see if they have a book on LF photography. My local library has two and I don't live in a huge city. There aren't that many LF books still in publication and they're all pretty good so there's no need to spend money on one right off the bat if you can check one out for free. But if you do want to buy a book I'd recommend "View Camera Technique" by Leslie Stroebel. I think of it as the bible of LF photography and it's a valuable reference that will continue to be useful long after you've mastered the basics. With respect to web sites, IMHO this is by far the best. The LF forum in photo.net is o.k. but it's a commercial venture and the pop-up ads have become very annoying lately. APUG is another non-commercial web site that's good if you aren't interested in digital.

[steve simmons]

The Stroebel book is a tome and not a good place to start. It might be a good longterm reference but not for a beginner. Any one of the three books I suggested would be better.

steve simmons

[CXC]

Benders have been around for a long time, since before digital and eBay, let alone the internet, and probably a few of the current manufacturers. I believe the main idea was to provide a way to obtain a working LF camera for a modest price. The LF marketplace has changed drastically since then. My advice is to buy a new Shen Hao, or something used from mpex.com, keh.com, eBay, or wherever. Direct your woodworking talents toward something more attractive.

[Garrett Lee]

All,

I think I'm going to go ahead and give the Bender a whirl. The reason I have decided so: By my building it myself rather than buying a stock one, I think I am going to get a better feeling for how the entire thing works as well as how to make improvements later should I ever at any time choose to do so. Plus, I do love to work with my hands.

jj,

One reason that I am going with the Bender is because I don't want to get used to luxury and then have to work with something of lesser quality later on. I think I am forever ruined as far as cars go, since I inherited a '92 Buick Roadmaster, which rides smoother than anything else I have ever been in. I fear that I will always compare new cars to that Buick and find them wanting, and I do not want to have the same happen should I get a good, able used LF camera for my first.

Eric,

Thanks for the site advice. While I like the looks of them, I personally prefer the Bender's lines from my own aesthetic position, as well as the fact that I know the support that I'll get (from what I've heard, anyway).

Bill,

I had never thought about tilting the easel, and can see the merits of doing so after the fact, but I can forsee two problems were I to do this. The first is that, for the image to be in focus across the easel, I would have to tilt the lens as well, which would not be easy. The second is that angling the easel would cause for me to have to crop the edges down at angles, and it would be nightmarish trying to figure out those angles when I was taking the shot. As to the issue of a tilt-shift lens: I have no desire to drop over a thousand dollars on a Canon lens when I can get a large format camera to do the same thing for less. Thanks for the advice, though; I may try it out.

Chris,

Unfortunately, I really need to get it by Christmas so I can get started on construction before school starts back up. If I wait until after school starts, I'll never find the time to get it done right. So, I can't afford to wait however long it may be before the Camera Bellows one comes out.

Fred,

Modifying the Bender appears to be pretty easy, from what I've heard, so I think the ability to customize, as you plan to do, makes it a more valuable camera to me than one that comes in a box.

Steve,

Unfortunately, the Richmond Public Library does not seem to have any of the books you mentioned, and it will be a while before I can get down to the VCU library to pick them up there. However, I will keep an eye out for them.

Brian,

There is a copy of Strobel's book down at the VCU library as well; next time I'm down there, I'll take a look.

CXC,

The thing is, I would prefer to build it myself. Call me crazy, but I am the sort of person who will cut down a 1.5' dia. tree with an axe rather than a chain saw simply because I want to make sure that I can do it. Now, I'll cut the tree up into smaller sections with a chain saw (I am not crazy enough to use an axe for that), so I will probably end up getting another view camera about halfway through college that is professionally made and fits precisely what I need (which the Bender will hopefully allow me to find out).

[Garrett Lee]

One other question before I retire for the night:

Does anyone know of a good wooden tripod that matches the design of the Bender? I would like to have one total system that is a true showstopper. If not, well, I can easily build one while I'm working on everything else, because the tripod I have for my Elan is really a piece of crap that I use only if I have to.

Once again, thanks for all your help.

[John_4185]

One reason that I am going with the Bender is because I don't want to get used to luxury and then have to work with something of lesser quality later on.

But that's not the way the world is moving. There will be more and better used cameras as time goes on, not fewer. The automobile analogy does not apply.

Does anyone know of a good wooden tripod that matches the design of the Bender?

Offhand, I cannot think of a currently manufactured wooden tripod that is as inadequate and as fragile as a Bender, so you might look to antique brass-and-woodies.

I would like to have one total system that is a true showstopper.

Oh, I get it now - the outfit is for posing!

[Brian Ellis]

Steve Simmons said:

"The Stroebel book is a tome and not a good place to start. It might be a good longterm reference
but not for a beginner. Any one of the three books I suggested would be better"

It might have been nice if you expressed this as your opinion rather than a statement of fact since reasonable people can differ on something like this. I happen to disagree with you. I think the Stroebel book is the best book for anyone, beginner or not, and if someone wishes to purchase it they will never need to buy another LF book. That's my opinion of course, not a statement of fact. I should add that I have no personal financial interest in it or in any other LF book.

[steve simmons]

Brian

I made this as a stateent becasue the Stroebel book is used as a beginning text only at a very few locations because of its complexity. My book and Jim Stone' s book are the ones that most photo programs use as a beginning text.

This is not just my opinion but that shared by most educators.

steve simmons

[Brian Ellis]

"This is not just my opinion but that shared by most educators. "

So it's your opinion and the opinion of "most" educators. It's still an opinion, not a fact, and my opinion is different. Every educator I know (including me when I taught a photography course at a university) uses the Stroebel book. Different people have different opinions, which was my point. It might bear repeating - I have no financial interest in the Stroebel book or any other book. I didn't write it and I don't publish a magazine through which it or Jim Stone's book is sold.

[steve simmons]

I did not suggest anyone buy any of the books. I simply suggested the three books beginners find the most user friendly. How and when and where he obtains them is his choice. I did him a service by giving three options. You only give one.

I stand by my response. It was more informative than your answer.

steve simmons

[Garrett Lee]

jj,

As to your first point: If there are truly going to be more better used cameras out there in the future, then shouldn't I wait for them? If you are correct on the quality, then wouldn't it be better to know what crap is so I can accurately judge what good quality is? As to your second: Thank you for advising me to look into the secondhand market for a tripod to match up. I'll see what I can find. As to your third: Ouch. That hurts. I don't object, since I think I misspoke on that one, and deserve that bit of criticism. What I was meaning is that having a beautiful cherry view camera on top of a modern-looking aluminum tripod would look mildly odd, at least to my mind. I would rather have something that matches the Bender in appearance, so that it fits together artistically. It's not that I intend for this camera to just sit in the corner looking pretty. Also, I am a Civil War reenactor and may someday try using this camera to take pictures on the battlefield. An aluminum tripod would be mildly out of place in that context. That is why I was inquiring to that subject.

Brian and Steve,

Please, don't get into a flame war over which books are better or whose posts are better. Accept that you both gave the best advice that you had. The entire point of a forum is so that everybody may share what they think is best so that the person who asked the question may receive all the information and decide for themselves. I will look into all of them at some point in time, so don't worry about it.

[John_4185]

Garret - the only wooden tripods that I know of that are currently made have blonde-colored wood. If there is another, I would like to know as well. If you wish to go through the trouble (or pay someone to do it), you could have a Berlebach tripod disassembled, stripped and stained to a darker color, although I think maintenance of the finish might become an issue. Keep in mind that the woods used for tripods and cameras 100 years ago were not chosen for their appearance. Wood was not scarce. It was just the main material for the industry. Many of the old wood cameras and tripods have very poorly matched grains compared to the same made today, and I believe it is because we have learned to revere wood.

If you surf that auction site, you will find a lot of old, darker wood tripods. Some names that come to mind are the Century and Kodak tripods, and many more are unlabeled.

Regarding learning what crap is by experience, all I can say is that it is an interesting way to learn, and a bit spendy, and I have done it, but not intentionally! There are older LF cameras than the Bender that are also elegant and more evolved, more robust and suitable for field and studio work. A Century One or Kodak 2D might be a better start. Or jump right into a Deardorf if you have the $$$$. Really, Deardorf! Look into it!

Regarding the books, and taking into consideration your particular approach to learning LF, I think Steve Simmons' book is a better start because it has a lot of examples of current and earlier camera technology. It is a very good read. I would take Simmons' book first, then f or deeper technical considerations of view camera work, move on to Leslie Stroebel's books. Stroebel has more than just photo books. Also see "Visual Concepts for Photographers". I'd try to find it in a library. It is very often not in the photo section, but under physiology of perception.

Finally, the '92 Buick... if that's old, then I'm a fossil. :) When I read 1992 it reminds me of the last time I tuned my old Harley which predates the Buick by 36 years.

[Ernest Purdum]

In looking for a wooden tripod, be cautious about the early type which consisted of three separate legs which attached to a top piece. Although these are very light, yet quite strong, and when combined with a "tilt top" (two boards hinged together with adjustable braces) are entirely usable, they are also hazardous. It is altogether too easy to kick a leg and bring the whole assemblage crashing down. There would probably be many more old Koronas and the like still in existence had not these tripods contributed to early demise. I never had a disaster when using one but did have several close calls.

You used to be able to buy an accessory brace which was three metal arms which attached to each leg. These had long slots which allowed for spread adjustment at the point where the three joined together, This made the rig much safer, but was rather cumbersome to install. People used to screw eyes into the legs, attach three lengths of light chain, and join them together by a keychain type ring. This is still an easy arrangement to put together for oneself. It is not as safe as the brace, but those braces are now much scarcer than the tripods, and the chain arrangement is much better than nothing. A small diadvantage is that the eyes interfere with packing the legs up compactly.

[Doug Herta]

Garrett,

I built the Bender in 1997 and have used it ever since. I have a manufactured 4X5 now but I still use the Bender when traveling. It is light and small. I can pack it (and all the other stuff) down to a daypack plus tripod. I built a special bracket to allow for super wide angle lenses for $8 worth of cherry wood and hardware. I have taken it backpacking through the western US, Alaska and Southeast Asia.

Some people may not find the crude and simple construction the pinnacle of fine engineering, but they probably aren't thumbing rides on trucks in Laos with their large format gear either. I graduated to a more precise (heavy, big) Calumet, but I have fun taking the Bender to places one doesn't see many large format cameras. My tripod is a Gitzo with old bicycle tubing covering the legs to keep it easy to grip and stay strapped to the back of a bicycle/motorcycle so the aesthetic may not be what you like.

If you "go on a Bender" be sure to construct it carefully so there is minimal 'slop' where the standards attach to the monorail and spend some quality time with a pack of polaroid film and a ruler to get the ground glass positioned correctly (per the instructions with the kit).

The Bender is not for everyone - it may not not be right for you. It works for me because it is a great camera for traveling and takes awesome photos.

[Barry Young]

Hello:

We will be releasing a kit for an 8x10 folding field camera by the summer of 2006. This will be followed by a 7x17 kit in the fall.

Thank you

Barry Young
cameramaker.com

[Christopher Nisperos]

jj wrote:
"Garret - the only wooden tripods that I know of that are currently made have blonde-colored wood. If there is another, I would like to know as well. If you wish to go through the trouble (or pay someone to do it), you could have a Berlebach tripod disassembled, stripped and stained to a darker color, although I think maintenance of the finish might become an issue".

jj (and Garrett),

Berlebach offers tripods in different colors. No need to strip one. They are also readily available from KB Systems tripods (Washington state).

Hope this helps y'all.

[Christopher Nisperos]

Ernest Purdum wrote (excuse my editing, Ernest):

"In looking for a wooden tripod, be cautious about the early type which consisted of three separate legs which attached to a top piece. .. they are ... hazardous. It is altogether too easy to kick a leg and bring the whole assemblage crashing down.

You used to be able to buy an accessory brace ... This made the rig much safer, but was rather cumbersome to install. People used to screw eyes into the legs, attach three lengths of light chain, and join them together by a keychain type ring. This is still an easy arrangement to put together for oneself. It is not as safe as the brace, but those braces are now much scarcer than the tripods, and the chain arrangement is much better than nothing. A small diadvantage is that the eyes interfere with packing the legs up compactly.
============

Ernest,

Check out the KB Systems tripod. It comes with a removeable "tray", shaped like a triangle with each point snipped off, and the edges turned up so nothing falls off. When setting up the tripod, you just install the tray between the three legs.
At each corner, there is a hole. On the inner side of the tripod legs, there are black, wrinkle painted hinges, horizontally mounted to swing 'up'. Each hinge has a screw in it, pointing toward the center of the tripod when the hinge is in its "closed" storage position. These screws are covered by a knob-headed nut, which you remove when you want to attach the tray, then replaced to secure it. To attach the tray, you just swing the hinge up from its storage position, let the screw slide through the hole in the tray, and tighten down the knob-headed screw. That's it.

This tray is pretty neat, and serves serveral purposes:

-it holds the three legs together

-it stabilizes the tripod very well (like a brace)

-it gives you a place to put film holders, meters, etc., OFF THE GROUND (I've even clamped an "arm" to it, to hold a Flexfill reflector as fill for a portrait. Saved me from bringing another lightstand!)

-it gives you an easy way to pick up the tripod (by placing one hand under the tray and another on a leg)

I've had mine for over eight years and it still looks and works like brand new. Mine is a light-colored wood. I do regret not having a slightly darker color, which they now offer. The other small disatisfaction is the plastic tip they give you to cover the spikes at the end of the legs. They wear out easily, so replace them with something thicker, if you get one of these. For the money (around $250. I think, unless the prices went way up) this tripod is a pretty good deal.

[Calamity Jane]

Have a look at my home made tripod - it is the most rigid tripod I have ever used and cost very little to make http://www.geocities.com/diannebest/camera/camera1.html