Help Identifying Brass Lens

[DmaalaM]

Hello, I recently purchased this lens and its on its way to me, but I was wondering if any of you could help identify it. Like if it is a petzval or one of the other type of lenses. The only thing I know is not a Rapid Rectilinear because the two elements aren't equal, but Petzvals usually have the rack and pinion focus. It says "Rival, H. A. Hyatt, 6 1/2 x 8 1/2, St. Louis Mo, Sole Agent." Any help is much appreciated.

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[Steven Tribe]

Petzval!

Towards the end of the 19th century, plain barrel lenses became quite popular.
Hyatt is a well known retailer. Try the search facility!

Or here :
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?94485-FS-Hyatt-Rapid-6-1-2-x-8-1-2-Petzval

[DmaalaM]

Thanks. I tried searching but didn't really find anything that matched up. Sounded close, but other lenses had a built in apertures. Couldn't find any old advertisements either like the other petzval companies.

[Steven Tribe]

I have found the eBay listing.

Nowhere does the lister give the size, which suggests this IS a rapid rectilinear - not a Petzval. Not all RR’s are symmetrical. So non-identical front and rear cells do not make it a Petzval.

Did you find this?

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?71397-Rival-brass-8-x-10-Lens

Some listers on EBay think that a brass lens is automatically a “Petzval”.

Hyatt was just a sales outlet for other lens makers. His Petzvals were good, but I don’t know anything about his RR’s.

[Mark Sawyer]

Petzvals have two separate elements at the rear, while RRs have two elements cemented together. Any trace of cement failure around the rear edges means RR. Beyond that, you may have to disassemble it to see.

Or... if it's an f/8, it's an RR. F/5 or faster is a Petzval. F/6 could be either.

[DmaalaM]

alright, i'll have to see when it gets delivered to my door. i'm hoping its a petzval. They're so expensive, especially the nicer brands. I blame lomo.

[Jody_S]

I blame lomo.

Oh I think we're largely to blame. It's the larger sizes that go for stupid prices, you can still buy short focal lengths that you can fit on a dSLR for reasonable amounts. But a Petzval to cover 11x14 costs more than my car.

[Steven Tribe]

alright, i'll have to see when it gets delivered to my door. i'm hoping its a petzval. They're so expensive, especially the nicer brands. I blame lomo.

A Petzval that covers full plate size will weigh up to 2 kilos, so what you have paid for postage should give you a clue. An RR will be under 0.5 kilo.

[goamules]

I believe Hyatt's "Rival" lens was advertised as a "symmetrical" or RR. Their petzval was the "Special Portrait" lens.