Help needed with Wollensak f:4, 11.5 inch Verito

[John Brady]

I just purchased this lens and have lots of questions. I purchased this to use on my Ebony 8x10 slw, for some soft focus portrait work.
It has the flange but no shutter. I know it was offered when new with or without a studio shutter, someone decided to save the $5 and purchase without it. The studio would have been better than no shutter, I guess but I don’t understand the use of this shutter either.

How do you use such a fast lens without a shutter, lens cap on and off, guessing exposure?

Is there a more modern type shutter that could be adapted to this lens?

How about a lens board, what do you suggest?

Any thoughts on this lens and general advice would be greatly appreciated! You can see, I’m in way over my head!

Thanks,
John
www.timeandlight.com

[mdarnton]

Packard shutter. Initially you will be put off by them because they are so simple, but it's my first choice for studio, with or without strobe sync. They are very fast to operate and completely reliable. I made a box for my largest shutter that takes smaller common boards from another of my cameras in the front for any lens. In the studio I even prefer to hang shuttered lenses there and ignore their own shutters.

You can also make a sleeve to hang the Packard shutter on the front of the lens, which would put less weight on your camera.

Also search web for "Galli shutter". Search here isn't so hot....turns up too many false positives.

[John Brady]

Thank you for some solid info, simple is good! Is there a certain Packard shutter I need to find, different sizes and such? Where does a person find one, buy a scrap lens with the right shutter? Sorry, total number here! Searching Galli shutter now.


Packard shutter. Initially you will be put off by them because they are so simple, but it's my first choice for studio, with or without strobe sync. They are very fast to operate and completely reliable. I made a box for my largest shutter that takes smaller common boards from another of my cameras in the front for any lens. In the studio I even prefer to hang shuttered lenses there and ignore their own shutters.

You can also make a sleeve to hang the Packard shutter on the front of the lens, which would put less weight on your camera.

Also search web for "Galli shutter". Search here isn't so hot....turns up too many false positives.

[Jim Noel]

A Galli shutter only requires 2 dark slides. It takes a small amount of practice to use efficiently. contact Jim GAlli at Tonopah pictures

[Kiwi7475]

Demo by Jim himself:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ICLG3HCDlhk

[John Brady]

The Galli method is interesting but, I would like something a little more predictable. Is there an Ilex or Beatex shutter that this lens could be mounted to?

[Mark Sawyer]

Thank you for some solid info, simple is good! Is there a certain Packard shutter I need to find, different sizes and such? Where does a person find one, buy a scrap lens with the right shutter?

Packard shutters are pretty common on eBay, but as many are pretty old, condition is a factor to consider. But they're also pretty easy to fix if you're handy at that sort of thing. Just make sure you get the right size opening, and that it has a shutter sync, if you ever plan to use a strobe with it. The fastest speed you'll get out of the larger ones is about a 30th of a second.

If you have reasonably deep pockets, you can still buy one new or have an old one serviced:

https://packardshutter.com/

[ghostcount]

Is there a more modern type shutter that could be adapted to this lens?

How about a lens board, what do you suggest?



Try this recent discussion...

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?157239-Iris-clamp-mounted-to-Sinar-Copal-shutter

[John Brady]

Packard shutters are pretty common on eBay, but as many are pretty old, condition is a factor to consider. But they're also pretty easy to fix if you're handy at that sort of thing. Just make sure you get the right size opening, and that it has a shutter sync, if you ever plan to use a strobe with it. The fastest speed you'll get out of the larger ones is about a 30th of a second.

If you have reasonably deep pockets, you can still buy one new or have an old one serviced:

https://packardshutter.com/

Thank you Mark, very surprised to see they are still in business!

[John Brady]

Try this recent discussion...

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?157239-Iris-clamp-mounted-to-Sinar-Copal-shutter

Now That would be a great solution, not sure if I’m capable of building it or not?

[John Brady]

As an update, I purchased a SINAR 140mm Converting SINAR Shutter adapter plate on eBay, it look like it should attach to the Sinar board on my Ebony.
Then, I purchased a complete Sinar x with a Sinar/Copal shutter. It looks like one of the more recent shutters because it goes down to f4 instead of 5.6. I bought the kit for about the price of what shutters appear to be going for.

Now I need to find a Sinar board with the right size hole and it looks like I’ll need to create a spacer because the lens extends about 1/4in psat the flange and will run into the shutter.

I still have a lot to figure out but I think I’m getting there, my wallet is getting thinner anyway!

www.timeandlight.com

[Jim Galli]

As an update, I purchased a SINAR 140mm Converting SINAR Shutter adapter plate on eBay, it look like it should attach to the Sinar board on my Ebony.
Then, I purchased a complete Sinar x with a Sinar/Copal shutter. It looks like one of the more recent shutters because it goes down to f4 instead of 5.6. I bought the kit for about the price of what shutters appear to be going for.

Now I need to find a Sinar board with the right size hole and it looks like I’ll need to create a spacer because the lens extends about 1/4in psat the flange and will run into the shutter.

I still have a lot to figure out but I think I’m getting there, my wallet is getting thinner anyway!

www.timeandlight.com

With big lenses that will give you the effect you're wanting remember that the size of the Sinar Copal will act as a choke. So if the glass area of the Verito is 2.85 inches, and you use a shutter with a 2 inch hole . . . you've sort of got a mess. The Packard really is the best solution, and it's also the one that generations of photographers used successfully when that lens was new and for generations beyond that. Do yourself a favor and get one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Packard-Ideal-Shutter-Number-6-in-Original-Box/293492375443?hash=item4455823f93:g:wLAAAOSwmIZeVdkm) and learn how to use it.

With practice it can give you 1/20th or slightly better, and everything slower than that. Read my description on operating one near the end of my article here (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Article_About_Packard_Shutters.html). Most of the images on my web pages have been made just that way. The same way everybody did it 100 years ago.

That one I linked you to with 3 1/2" opening is the same as the one installed in my old Kodak 2D 8X10. 3 1/2" is enough for almost anything you can cobble onto a 6X6 lens board. I use it with lenses up to 16" focus. I'm no relation to who ever that seller is. If you buy a Packard, ask some of us here first if it's "the right one" as they came in all sizes and flavors.

The guys a hundred years ago never thought twice about it. It was all they had, and we have the thousands of photos they made with them to prove it. I'm happy to try to help. My email is on my front page.

[Jim Andrada]

+1 on using a Packard shutter. You can always get a couple of square plastic Neutral Density filters.

[John Brady]

With big lenses that will give you the effect you're wanting remember that the size of the Sinar Copal will act as a choke. So if the glass area of the Verito is 2.85 inches, and you use a shutter with a 2 inch hole . . . you've sort of got a mess. The Packard really is the best solution, and it's also the one that generations of photographers used successfully when that lens was new and for generations beyond that. Do yourself a favor and get one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Packard-Ideal-Shutter-Number-6-in-Original-Box/293492375443?hash=item4455823f93:g:wLAAAOSwmIZeVdkm) and learn how to use it.

With practice it can give you 1/20th or slightly better, and everything slower than that. Read my description on operating one near the end of my article here (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Article_About_Packard_Shutters.html). Most of the images on my web pages have been made just that way. The same way everybody did it 100 years ago.

That one I linked you to with 3 1/2" opening is the same as the one installed in my old Kodak 2D 8X10. 3 1/2" is enough for almost anything you can cobble onto a 6X6 lens board. I use it with lenses up to 16" focus. I'm no relation to who ever that seller is. If you buy a Packard, ask some of us here first if it's "the right one" as they came in all sizes and flavors.

The guys a hundred years ago never thought twice about it. It was all they had, and we have the thousands of photos they made with them to prove it. I'm happy to try to help. My email is on my front page.

Thanks Jim, although now I feel like a total idiot (not a new revelation). I just measured my 11.5 in Verito and it’s like 3.5 in, I have no idea how large my Sinar/Copal shutter will be but probably not that big, crap. I wasn’t finding anything on eBay or the forum for decent looking Packard shutter, and all the cool kids were mounting barrel lenses to Sinar shutters.

I also wasn’t in love with the idea of front mounting a shutter but, maybe that’s the way to go.

What is the right Packard for this size lens? It probably would have been cheaper to just buy a new one from Packard, I think it’s awesome that they are still in business.

[Jim Galli]

John, I just measured my 11.5 Verito. The glass area matches the math. 4 into 11.5 gives 2 7/8" glass area and that's exactly what I measured. So can someone who has one of these big Copal's please measure the maximum opening. I looked on line and couldn't find that simple answer anywhere. If it's a 3 inch opening it may be usable.

[Roger Thoms]

I just measured my 5.6 version and the opening is 2.95”.

Roger

[Jim Galli]

I just measured my 5.6 version and the opening is 2.95”.

Roger

Thanks Roger. Sounds like it may just be do-able. Now then, I'm curious on the big Copal units; 5.6 of what?? 5.6 of 2.95 would be a 16.5" lens. If you're working with a 240mm lens is there a way to adjust that aperture down so that 5.6 means something? Just curious. Never had one.

[John Brady]

Thank you Jim and Roger, it sounds like it will be close but maybe not ideal. My shutter is the f4 but I'm not sure it will be any different?

[Jim Noel]

The Galli method is interesting but, I would like something a little more predictable. Is there an Ilex or Beatex shutter that this lens could be mounted to?

I have never seen a Betax or Ilex shutter that large.

[Roger Thoms]

Thanks Roger. Sounds like it may just be do-able. Now then, I'm curious on the big Copal units; 5.6 of what?? 5.6 of 2.95 would be a 16.5" lens. If you're working with a 240mm lens is there a way to adjust that aperture down so that 5.6 means something? Just curious. Never had one.

f 5.6, but remember that the Sinar shutter control the aperture in a DB lens mount. The is no iris in the shutter itself. I have no idea if the f4.0 version has a bigger opening. But it does sound like the shutter will likely work out for the OP.