Kodak Technical Pan and PMK Pyro?

[Jasmb570]

Does anyone have experience developing Kodak Technical Pan (120 and 4x5) in PMK Pyro?

Just looking for some starting points. I will obviously do some testing, but if anyone has any pointers re time and temperature, they would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

[Drew Wiley]

It's the only film that I never got to work with PMK. I wouldn't bother even trying. Stick with contone developers specifically made for TechPan. Photographers Formulary still has one or two good ones.

[Eric Woodbury]

It really depends on what effect you want from the Tech Pan. I use TP for N+4 to N+6. With PMK, I believe I split the development, soaking the film in concentrate A and then bringing up the image with the alkali. Yesterday, I developed TP in Xtol equivalent at 1:1. Long ago, I developed in a POTA-like developer. I may have split that too. And Rodinal works, too.

I only shoot 2415 sporadically, but I have a lot of film left, so I need to use more. Never used it with N-development.

All my experience is with the TP sheet film.

[Vaughn]

What will you be doing with the negatives? Tech Pan yield negatives of very high contrast. If you will be enlarging the negatives it will be difficult to control the contrast with normal developers, including staining developers (as Drew mentioned).

I have had success working with both specialized developers and standard developers when creating high-contrast (DR 2.8+) negatives for alt. processes. I have an on-going project using Tech Pan and Kodak/Ilford Copy Film (4x5) in the redwoods.

Another way to take advantage of the film would be to use it situations of very low contrast, where the increase in contrast due to the film can be used to ones advantage in silver printing, etc.

[Jasmb570]

Thanks for chiming in guys.

I will be doing a few things with the film. Everything from studio still-life, to architectural studies.

I have about 30 rolls of 120, and 150 sheets of 4x5. Always on the look out for more. :o

I have used PMK for several years with mainly Ilford (delta 100 and FP4) with great success, as well as Verichrome Pan in 120.

I will be scanning it. (put away the pitchforks).:eek:

I am aware of the Photographers Formulary options and may go that way, but wanted to explore PMK as I have it on hand, and it would simplify things if I could stick with one dev.

PMK inherently "masks" highlights and I thought that might "help" with the contrast? I will obviously do some testing with my set up before committing to any serious work. Just looking for starting points at this stage.

Thanks for your input so far.

Cheers,
Jason.

[Drew Wiley]

TechPan has inherently poor tonality at the extremes. Highlights easily blow out, and I don't think pyro stain will cure that. I have a mountaineering friend addicted to it in 120, and the "soot and chalk" effect is quite evident in high-contrast scenes. I mostly used it for actual technical applications, and still have quite a few 8x10 sheets, but did at one time reasonably tame it for pictorial use. I'd seek out slightly softer or diffused lighting, or do studio subjects.

[Mark Sampson]

I've found Formulary TD-3 to work well... but using TP for long-scale subjects is a losing battle. And its high resolution doesn't matter much with sheet film, unless you want to make 40" wide enlargements. Still that 'glassy' look it has will work for some subjects- best of luck!

[Jasmb570]

Hi Drew,

Very odd to hear your description of Tech Pan's characteristics. They are not my recollection at all. I used it a lot many years ago, before going all digital. But that was using the original Technidol developer. I found the highlights to be fantastic, not blown out at all.

I will do some tests with PMK, but it looks like TD-3 will be the solution I am looking for.

Mark, that 'glassy' look is exactly the reason I have chosen TP for some of the projects I have in mind.

Cheers,
Jason.

[esearing]

This article has some PMK times and description of use with other developers. I have a box of 4415 I want to try one day.
http://www.alexluyckx.com/blog/index.php/2018/12/03/classic-film-review-kodak-technical-pan/

[Greg]

Years ago processed Kodak Technical Pan in very dilute Rodinal (1:100?) in a 9% Sodium Sulfite solution. Excellent N development and even came close to approaching a N-1 development. Film was from a State surplus store so I had no way of knowing how it was stored over the years. Unfortunately it went bad quite quickly, so evidently the film wasn't exactly stored under refrigeration.

[Drew Wiley]

Jamb570 - recollection might be one thing, but if you had some of those old TechPan images on hand and compared them side-by-side with what is now being done with more flexible films and pyro, you'd probably change your mind. I have recently found Tech Pan useful for double-negative technique making black and white prints from color negatives, where a contrast boost is distinctly needed. But starting out with a high-contrast scene ... well, it can be done, but I have never yet seen ideal results. If working within a milder contrast range suitable to Pan F, for instance, sandwiched between Zones III and VII, that's more realistic for Tech Pan too. Every single image on that link Esearing posted has that soot a chalk look, rather lifeless in the highlights and shadows, though some of that could be do to scanning or web idiosyncrasies. I not suggesting not to try it. It does have it's own kind of uncompromising look. But I got my best results from TD-3.

[Peter De Smidt]

Tech pan in C41 Developer:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/17s3t6uhvqyrhs9/Plow-0739_1200.jpg?raw=1

[Jasmb570]

Thanks esearing,:)

Exactly what I was looking for.

I have ordered some TD-3 from the formulary, when it arrives I will do a side by side comparison, with some still life in the studio, with PMK and TD-3 and see how it goes.

The results in the link @ www.alexluyckx.com/blog were about what I was expecting. The PMK was a little more contrasty than the technidol, but definitely not "chalk and soot". Especially considering the examples developed in PMK were shot outdoors at noon, so not ideal when contrast is an issue with the film to start with. Not a criticism of the blog, it may have been unavoidable due to time constraints on their part. Just something to take into consideration when weighing up the results. I would generally (but not rigidly) avoid that scenario for the architectural shots I am planning, just because of my preference for early/late light angles. And not an issue in the studio where I can control the light.

Perhaps when I do the tests, I will try a N-1 as well as an N dev, with the PMK, to see if that helps.

Thanks again,
Jason.



This article has some PMK times and description of use with other developers. I have a box of 4415 I want to try one day.
http://www.alexluyckx.com/blog/index.php/2018/12/03/classic-film-review-kodak-technical-pan/

[Jasmb570]

Hi Pete,

C-41 dev you say?

Very interesting. The shot looks great. Definitely "punchy", but plenty of mid tones.

Do tell me more!;)

Cheers,
Jason.

[Peter De Smidt]

Hey, Jason. Way back when, one of the photography magazines ran an article on using C41 developer with Technical Pan, just the developer and not the rest of the color steps. The film is then fixed as usual. The first stage of C41 developing is a low contrast developer. It worked well, but I also used TD-3, which is probably a better overall choice. Technical Pan can be very effective in low contrast lighting. It really is very similar to jumping up in format. I've been doing a some 35mm scanning, and so I'm used to looking at high resolution scans at 100% on screen. When I saw the Technical Pan negatives blown up that big, they looked much better than other film, including TMX.

[Jasmb570]

Thanks Peter.

As I said above, I have bought some TD-3, and have PMK on hand as my standard developer. It was more out of curiosity. The C-41 dev being low contrast make sense.

I will post some results in a few weeks when they are done (TD-3 will take a while to get here, shipping to NZ is always a pain). Will be 120 and 4x5, I don't own a 35mm film camera.:(

Cheers,
Jason.

[Peter De Smidt]

Sounds great, Jason. I look forward to seeing your results. I never shot any TP in larger formats. The results should be spectacular with the right subject. If I remember rightly, John Sexton used to keep some 4x5 Tech Pan loaded to use if he came across a low contrast subject.