Change of fixer

[12pmc]

I have used Ifford Hypam fixer for some time - mixed as per manufacture recommended ratio. I have just changed to Fomafix (less costly) and mixed as per manufacture recommended ratio. I use Foma Variant 111 gloss paper and have done for about three years and very pleased with my results.

I notice that the highlights in the dried print are slightly flatter or duller since I have started using the Fomafix. Nothing else has changed in my work flow including how I evaluate the wet print.

Could a change in fixer have an impact in the highlights?

Thanks for any comments.

Peter

[Eric Woodbury]

I'm not familiar with Foma products, but perhaps you are getting some bleaching from the fix. Are the process times the same as with Hypam? Chasing these things is exasperating.

[Renato Tonelli]

I'm not familiar with Foma products, but perhaps you are getting some bleaching from the fix. Are the process times the same as with Hypam? Chasing these things is exasperating.

Exasperating is right.

Consider how you are stopping development (water, acidic stop bath, etc.) as this step will influence the result of the fixing action.

[Eric Woodbury]

There is a great disparity in fixing times listed in the datasheets for these products.

You may need to look into the chemistry of the two products. Are you using Fomafix liquid or the powdered "P" type? See if a non-acid fix does the same thing. Or try simple sodium thiosulfate (available from pool chemical suppliers).

Remember, better is the enemy of good enough AND if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[jeroldharter]

just stick with hypam. the cost difference is not worth the effort.

[12pmc]

Appreciate the comments - the mix ratio and the suggested time differs between the two products. Jerold I think you may be right !

Thank you
Peter

[Cor]

How old is your Foma paper ? It might start building a veil due to age.

Best,

Cor

[Doremus Scudder]

Just checked out the Fomafix at Freestyle. It seems to be a rather conventional rapid fixer, in the same league as Hypam and Rapid Fixer. There's really nothing that different about Fomafix that should cause any degradation of the highlights.

You may want to try fixing a bit longer to see if your highlights clear a bit. On the other hand, make sure you're not overfixing. 1.5 to 2 minutes in the Fomafix is fine (just like Hypam...).

One thought. Do make sure you are using a stop bath and that you don't turn on the white light till at least 30 seconds into the fixing time. You may be getting a bit of fog if you're using a water stop and then hitting the white light too soon.

I also don't see the price advantage: 500ml of Fomafix concentrate is $7.19 at Freestyle. A 5-liter bottle of Hypam (10 times as much) costs just under $31. Ten bottles of the Fomafix (to make 5 liters) is almost $72. I just bought a 5-liter bottle of Hypam...

Best,

Doremus

[12pmc]

Renato - I did not know that the type of stop bath can impact on fixing process - how so? I use citric acid (heaped teaspoon per litre of water) been using this for some years seems to work just fine.

Cor - the paper is brand new I have started buying directly from Foma and just received a fresh batch. (I live in France so pretty quick to get stuff directly.) https://fomaobchod.cz they speak English and helpful people to deal with.

Doremus - Note your comment about the Fomafix. I was fixing Hypam for two minutes and Fomafix for three minutes as per the guidance on the label - but the mix ratio is 5:1 as against 4:1 for the Hypam. Do not turn on white viewing light until full time.

Cost wise a 5 litre container of Hypam from Silverprint (https://silverprint.co.uk) in the UK is £37 (approx $47) plus shipping to France about $15, and Fomafix direct is €23 (approx $27) for 5 Litres and cheaper shipping at about $10. There are cheaper places to buy chemicals in the UK than Silverprint but these suppliers do not have "hazmat" shipping certificate for international shipping so its a PIA!

So about half in price but not worth it if it causes me issues....


Thanks all for the input.

Cheers
Peter

[Renato Tonelli]

I was thinking that if you had been using water as a stop bath, you would need to increase the time + agitation. From what you are saying, the choice of stop bath doesn’t seem to be at fault. It may take some time to figure it out by process of elimination. Other things to consider: are you turning on the lights too soon? Is the safelight too bright for this combination?

[Chuck Pere]

Have you done a quick film clearing time test with the new fixer? This will at least tell you if the new fixer is working OK.

[Doremus Scudder]

Peter,

First, let's talk fixing times for fiber-base prints. Ilford recommends 1 minute for Hypam mixed 1+4 and 2 minutes for the 1+9 dilution. Fomafix recommends 3 minutes at the 1+5 dilution (I think I got this wrong in my first post...). At any rate, it seems you are fixing for the proper time, so that shouldn't be a problem. A bit longer will not noticeably degrade the highlights, so you have a bit of a safety margin.

If the fixers are formulated correctly and not out-of-date (expired due to age), then there really should be no adverse effects on your paper. If the fixer is not as active as it should be for some reason, then a veiling of the highlights from unfixed halides in the emulsion may be the result. If so, these prints are at risk for rapid degradation. You need to test to see if your fix is working correctly.

So, you should certainly compare the two fixers side-by-side asap and see if, indeed, it is the Fomafix that is causing you problems. First, though, visually inspect your Fomafix concentrate. If there is a precipitate or if there are solids suspended in it, it has likely gone bad. Fix two identical prints, one in fresh new fix and one in your Fomafix. If prints in the new fixer have clearer highlights compared to the Fomafix, then the Foma product is not doing its job due to age, poor storage, etc. If you find this, you should re-fix all the prints you fixed in the Foma product and re-wash.

If you find the Fomafix to be the culprit, then you should inform Foma; I'm sure they will want to know.

If, on the other hand, there is not a difference in the prints from new fixer and the Fomafix, you'll have to look elsewhere for your problem.

Your stop bath is almost certainly not the problem. You can look elsewhere.

You might want to check the paper for fogging; it's easy and quick, but should be done in total darkness to rule out safelight fog as a factor. Simply cut two small pieces of paper; don't expose them to anything. Develop, stop and fix one piece, but just fix the second piece. If, after full fixing, the whites of the two pieces match, there's no problem. If the white of the developed piece is grayer/yellower, then the paper is likely fogged (or, in the case of some yellowing, the developer may be staining the paper: rarer).

Also, make a print with and without the safelights on and see if that makes any difference. I've had to switch to red safelights to use the Fomabrom Variant 111. The amber Kodak OC safelights fogged the paper after just a short time. A regular safelight test may be in order if you find a difference between prints made with and without the safelight on. Look for the Kodak datasheet on safelights for a great test.

FWIW, the 5l size of Fomafix does not appear to be available in the USA any longer; only the 1 liter bottle, which is not nearly as economical.

Let us know how your testing goes.

Best,

Doremus

[Doremus Scudder]

Have you done a quick film clearing time test with the new fixer? This will at least tell you if the new fixer is working OK.

Yes, indeed, provided that one has a baseline established already, i.e., the correct clearing time for a certain film in fresh fixer, to compare to.

Or, if the fixer simply won't clear the film at all in the recommended time, you can bet it is bad. The problem is for fix that is partially exhausted; it may clear film, but take longer. Unless you have the clearing time in fresh fix to compare to, you might not notice that the fix is on its way out.

Doremus

[12pmc]

Doremus and Cor. Thank you for you suggestions.

I have checked the fixer for sediment etc and it’s fine no foreign substances, and it clears the film completely in the allotted time. I have ordered some new hypam and will run a test when it arrives, also the paper fogging test too and let you know.

Thanks again

Peter

[12pmc]

Hi Doremus,

Just to revert I did the paper fog test you suggested and all good. New fixer stuck due to virus restrictions on shipping. So I reprinted the same neg and similar results.... at least it’s consistent!

Cheers
Peter