View Full Version : Post your homage to another photographer (any format)
Homage: something done or given in acknowledgment or consideration of the worth of another.
Perhaps you have made a photograph in the style or approach of another, either purposely or accidentally.
Perhaps your photograph evokes or emulates the feeling of another photographer's work.
paulbarden
6-Mar-2020, 20:18
In the style of Josef Sudek. Like it or lump it, I’m fine either way. :-)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49594762001_cc43247210_b.jpg
Homage to Frederick H. Evans:
201520
And to William Clift:
201521
http://www.kennethleegallery.com/images/forum/HomageToPS.jpg
Guess whose style this emulates :o
Oren Grad
7-Mar-2020, 09:10
Ken, this is a fun idea for a thread. Might make for some interesting and instructive discussion to not identify the inspiration, and let others say what influences they think they see and why. Not saying that should be a requirement, just that it might be interesting for anyone who is up for that sort of discussion to try it that way and see what happens.
Ken, this is a fun idea for a thread. Might make for some interesting and instructive discussion to not identify the inspiration, and let others say what influences they think they see and why. Not saying that should be a requirement, just that it might be interesting for anyone who is up for that sort of discussion to try it that way and see what happens.
Excellent idea Oren !
I have removed the name of the photographer I emulated... if it's not too late :rolleyes:
In the style of Josef Sudek.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49594762001_cc43247210_b.jpg
Lovely, and lovely on its own merits !
tgtaylor
7-Mar-2020, 12:31
Lovely, and lovely on its own merits !
Wrong! Josef Sudek never photographed dead leaves in a glass of stagnate, putrefied water. Most, if not all, of his portraits that I have seen are of vibrant floral arrangements in vessels of clear, clean water. In choosing such compositions Sudek celebrated life and did not subscribe to the politically correct “ain't life terrible” sentiment so prevalent today.
Misrepresentation is not "homage."
Thomas
Oren Grad
7-Mar-2020, 12:49
Wrong! Josef Sudek never photographed dead leaves in a glass of stagnate, putrefied water. Most, if not all, of his portraits that I have seen are of vibrant floral arrangements in vessels of clear, clean water.
There's no "wrong" here. It's not necessary for Paul's work to replicate every aspect of Sudek's work, or any particular aspect of Sudek's work, in order for Paul to feel that he has been influenced by Sudek, or for others to see echoes of Sudek in it.
Let's see if we can take this as an opportunity to think about influences and relationships that we may not have recognized before, rather than looking for reasons to dismiss others' perceptions out of hand.
Paul: it's beautiful, thanks for sharing and for giving us an interesting proposition to ponder.
Homage to Frederick H. Evans:
201520
This is certainly reminiscent of the famous Evans photograph of the steps but with your own composition, lighting, atmosphere, etc.
Pretty hip actually ! Some people might feel intimidated to approach this subject.
Who wrote Variations on a Theme of Paganini: Brahms ?
Who wrote Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini: Rachmaninoff ?
Last time we spoke, Paganini told me he was flattered :cool:
http://www.kennethleegallery.com/images/forum/HomageToAS.jpg
Perhaps this will be a little easier to identify.
robshepherd
7-Mar-2020, 18:32
Ken, your take on an "equivalent", perhaps? I like it.
There's no "wrong" here. It's not necessary for Paul's work to replicate every aspect of Sudek's work, or any particular aspect of Sudek's work, in order for Paul to feel that he has been influenced by Sudek, or for others to see echoes of Sudek in it.
Let's see if we can take this as an opportunity to think about influences and relationships that we may not have recognized before, rather than looking for reasons to dismiss others' perceptions out of hand.
Paul: it's beautiful, thanks for sharing and for giving us an interesting proposition to ponder.
If there is any wrong it is erroneous suppositions based on limitations of personal knowledge.
Sudek did indeed make quite a number of images of still life portraits of leaves in water, bread, flower in water, etc. looking through windows, often almost exactly as depicted in the image posted here by Paul.
See for example Plate #51, "Glass and Rose", a 27.3 by 20.6 cm carbro print, in the book Josef Sudek: Sixty Pigment Prints From the Artist's Estate, published 1998 in New York by Salander-O'Reilly Galleries.
And do a quick search for Sudek and Last Rose and you should see a print very similar to the one Paul posted.
Sandy
robshepherd
7-Mar-2020, 19:23
And do a quick search for Sudek and Last Rose and you should see a print very similar to the one Paul posted.
Sandy
Thanks for the idea. I looked at Last Rose, and then a bunch of others. I have not spent as much time as I should looking at Sudek's work! So many lovely and inspiring images. -Rob
tgtaylor
7-Mar-2020, 19:35
https://www.artsy.net/artwork/josef-sudek-glass-with-a-rose
Here's another version: https://www.artnet.com/auctions/artists/josef-sudek/rose-in-glass
Does that look like dead rose and leaves in stagnant water to you?
Thomas
C. D. Keth
7-Mar-2020, 19:36
I’m not sure I would call these photos an homage, exactly- they’re only done with a phone camera and my attention was really not on the photos themselves- but the spirit is there so I post.
I had the pleasure of spending the last week in Paris with my wife. Neither of us had been there before and as a way to loosely structure some exploring around the city, I found the locations of a few of Eugene Atget’s photos.
These two were particularly interesting to me. One because of similarity and one because of difference:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200308/d4857726c12e090758eb3b1225c6ebc8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200308/20e8ef3c5197ea5acd498984d33a6b3a.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OK, take your guesses:
201540
tgtaylor
7-Mar-2020, 20:17
For the past week or so I have been searching through my collection of 6x7 slides for a certain image that I shot early one morning in Kern County. The image popped vividly in my mind during a time when I was reading-up on Watkins work in Kern County during the late 1880's. I haven't yet located that slide but a couple of days ago this slide made its appearance:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49628113961_941a3b49e9_z.jpg
Although in color tt immediately struck me as being a Watkins style photo. But when I took this I had never heard of Carleton Watkins much less had seen his photos of vineyards. So it can't be maintained that it was taken in homage to Watkins but rather that Watkins and I share to same “vision.” Vision is not homage.
Thomas
Hugo Zhang
7-Mar-2020, 20:27
http://www.kennethleegallery.com/images/forum/HomageToPS.jpg
Guess whose style this emulates :o
Paul Strand?
jmontague
7-Mar-2020, 20:35
Paul Strand?
Paul Revere?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Mistaking the Map for the Territory, 16x20 silver gelatin print
Inspiration by an obvious Yosemite photographer...along with three 5x7 contact prints (the horizontal images) that sort of follow along the same lines.
Andrew Plume
8-Mar-2020, 04:55
Two from Paris - Notre dame, before and after
Much restoration work to be carried out
And thx for posting
Andrew
Paul Strand?
Exactly !
5x7 cropped to 4x5 ratio, 300mm lens. The subject leans against an old wall with lots of texture.
It has taken many years to find a more personal vision. Even so, I still see things through his eyes.
Paul Revere?
That's it ! :cool:
OK, take your guesses:
201540
I'd have to guess one of the Westons.
Ken, your take on an "equivalent", perhaps? I like it.
I set out to make photos of an Eclipse a few years ago and they all ended up looking like his "equivalents" in their overall tonality and mysterious mood.
But in this case, the photograph is simply an equivalent of... itself :rolleyes:
Does that look like dead rose and leaves in stagnant water to you?
My apologies for not clearly spelling out the theme of this thread. We are merely sharing our own photos which to some degree are reminiscent of others that may have inspired us.
When I first started out with the view camera in the 70's I wanted to learn about filtering the sky. I made a photo of a propane tank with the Moon rising behind it. Later I referred to it in jest, as "Moonrise over Propane Tank", in homage to some of Ansel's iconic images. I'd show it here if I still had it.
C. D. Keth
8-Mar-2020, 07:16
I'd have to guess one of the Westons.
I’d say you’re right. Edward did a similar picture in the 30s, Brett did a whole portfolio of sand dune pictures frequently focusing on the textures created by wind, and I think Cole did a couple color pictures in that vein.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Joe O'Hara
8-Mar-2020, 08:05
My humble tribute to Ken Lee.
201546
Joe O'Hara
8-Mar-2020, 08:06
I'm thinking you can guess who I had in mind when I made this one. I cheated a little by doing it in Photoshop, instead of the darkroom.
201547
A good sense of humor, I add!
I wish you had that shot...
My apologies for not clearly spelling out the theme of this thread. We are merely sharing our own photos which to some degree are reminiscent of others that may have inspired us.
When I first started out with the view camera in the 70's I wanted to learn about filtering the sky. I made a photo of a propane tank with the Moon rising behind it. Later I referred to it in jest, as "Moonrise over Propane Tank", in homage to some of Ansel's iconic images. I'd show it here if I still had it.
Later I referred to it in jest, as "Moonrise over Propane Tank", in homage to some of Ansel's iconic images. I'd show it here if I still had it.
In that spirit, my image in post #4 is "A Lake of Steps" - Stairs to the Second Floor, University of Washington Library. :D
My humble tribute to Ken Lee.
201546
About ten years ago I spent days photographing corn lilies, and got nothing as beautiful as this - well done, Joe!
I'd have to guess one of the Westons.
Yes. Both of them, actually. I have the book Dune, featuring dune images by both of them. Only one image in that book is of similarly small scale - most are larger views and either more graphic (especially in Brett's case) or lyrical (both Brett and Edward). After seeing their work, and some wonderful dune images of Huntington Witherill's (his book Orchestrating Icons is one of my favorites), I'm not sure I'll be attempting to photograph dunes again!
I had hoped to do some larger views when that image was taken, but (minor) disaster struck. I was on my way home from my parents' house in Wyoming, driving west across central Oregon. I had always wanted to visit some dunes near a small unincorporated town called Christmas Valley. Driving west I could see the dunes off to the north a number of miles. Getting there involved leaving the highway and driving north about 8 miles, then backtracking eastward for another 10 miles or so, all in treeless high desert. After leaving the highway I passed a number of classic rural compounds consisting of trailers and RV's in various states of decay. The thought of approaching one for help in the case of an emergency was frightful.
I got to where the dunes were and started driving in on a dirt two-track road. I was in our Prius, with the back end full of junk I had brought from my parents' house. As I neared the dunes I rounded a corner and the Prius quit making forward progress. I was stuck, with both front wheels buried Prius deep - a few inches! I got out and made the posted image not far from the car. I wanted to do more, but was not able to focus on seeing, knowing that I was stranded. At that moment, true panic began setting in. It was about 9 AM and getting hotter by the minute. I changed into some cool clothes and stood in the shade of a large bush, drinking water and assessing the situation. I emptied the rear of the car to get access to the jack. It was a scissor jack, never used, well greased up from the factory. The moment I set it on the ground it was completely gummed up with sand. Scratch the jack plan.
I've been stuck in snow many times, and sometimes jamming sticks under the tires provided enough traction to move, so I thought I'd try that. There were a number of long, straight juniper roots that had been exposed in places by 4-wheelers driving over them. I was able to break off five or six foot lengths and shove them behind the front tires to back up. I figured I'd back until I was off the sticks, then replace them and do it over and over again. I got in and gently gave it a bit of gas, and was moving! I noticed that if I cut left I would get the car pointed down a slight incline, which seemed like a good thing. I did it, and found myself slightly downhill, as planned. I threw caution to the wind and started steadily and carefully driving forward, remembering a friend's mantra when rock climbing - "momentum is your only friend!" I drove to where the road became firmer and stopped, then walked back to retrieve a few things I'd left behind.
By then the sun was too high for any more photography. I started leaving, thinking about how fortunate I had been to get out of a seemingly serious predicament. At the edge of the dune area I stopped in the shade of a sign that listed courtesy protocols for those enjoying the area in off highway vehicles. I then realized that it was a Friday, and by evening the place would probably be crawling with camp trailers and large pickup trucks. It then struck me that probably the greatest danger I faced was having to wait around all day to be jokingly ridiculed about my Prius when someone generously pulled it out with their big truck! :cool:
Joe O'Hara
8-Mar-2020, 10:22
"... probably the greatest danger I faced was having to wait around all day to be jokingly ridiculed about my Prius..."
I agree, really close call there. I hope you learned your lesson that day--life isn't always so forgiving the second time.
I'm thinking you can guess who I had in mind when I made this one. I cheated a little by doing it in Photoshop, instead of the darkroom.
201547
Uelsmann
I'd like to point out one interesting thing about the portrait posted earlier: the use of front fall. The lens is at the subject's eye level but his head is at the top of the image, not the center.
This adjustment was quick and instinctual under the ground glass of a view camera but to get this effect otherwise, we would have to shoot with a wide angle lens and then crop heavily. I doubt I would have ever considered that.
... So I'm keeping that old camera for a while !
mitch.goddard
28-May-2020, 10:22
I didn't set out to do so when I captured this, but here's my accidental homage to Todd Hido
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49941710901_2d67799629_b.jpg
Hasselblad 500C/M, Distagon 50mm, Fuji NPL 160 (expired 1998)
Tin Can
28-May-2020, 10:37
Patron Optique
https://live.staticflickr.com/4745/40511908272_20aef02d24_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24HU7V7)Carmine (https://flic.kr/p/24HU7V7) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr
"Obsidian" reminds me of some of Brett Weston's ice photos:
http://www.donjamesfineart.com/uploads/1/0/2/5/102577980/obsidian_orig.jpg
invisibleflash
29-May-2020, 09:21
Always had a thing for Weegee. (along with many other photogs that have inspired me over the years such a Cartier-Bresson, Penn, Araki).) But Weegee was one of my favs.
(See the DVD on the NY Photo League for lots of behind the scene info on Weegee. It is on Amazon.)
I had a nice audio recording for download at the Internet Archive of Weegee talking, but they deleted my account this week. 5-1/2 years work and 70,000 to 110,000 files gone. I didn't bother to keep copies of everything I put up there. Stupid me, I thought it was safe. Well, so much for cloud storage.
Weegee lived in much simpler times. He didn't have to worry about all that stuff in the film era
Chauncey Walden
1-Jun-2020, 10:42
Homage to Laura Gilpin in Yucatan. Taken with a 1930s Ikonta A, 6x4.5, on Verichrome Pan, uncoated Tessar.
204381
jmontague
1-Jun-2020, 13:59
My homage to Paul Caponigro:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200601/88a43b35fc8f8a75fcedbffb5477dfa5.jpg
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Several years ago I took a photography class at the local University to get up to speed on Photoshop etc. On the first day of class the instructor was going over the parts of the camera and when she got to the pop up flash she admonished us, "Never EVER turn in an assignment using the on camera flash, it creates harsh shadows". Our second assignment was to use a long or short shutter speed to show the different effects. When I hung this on the wall, she burst out laughing and all the 20 something students were looking at each other trying to figure out what was so funny. My only regret is that I sold my Heilman Flash years ago so some kid could make a litesaber...
https://i.imgur.com/AWozwTb.jpg
That is hilarious, Bruce!
Great concept and execution.
Ulophot
21-Feb-2021, 19:26
Love, it, Bruce.
... she admonished us, "Never EVER turn in an assignment using the on camera flash, it creates harsh shadows".
Most excellent.
Way back in school taking Basic Art 101 or something, the teacher would brow-beat student's work that had geometric shapes. When asked why, she responded, they are not interesting and too predicable bla, bla. When the teacher was asked what about all that work exhibited in the art department halls that have lots of geometric shapes, she responded, they know what they are doing.
I find it interesting that 'we' must now know every image ever made
What will do in the year 2525 (https://youtu.be/1FgSmdfRUus)
Merg Ross
5-May-2021, 07:51
https://i.imgur.com/sDCaN12.jpg
Guess who ?
Ruth Bernhard
cuypers1807
5-May-2021, 08:15
This one is probably obvious:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51158885262_a6123f282e.jpg
Hand in Hand
https://www.icp.org/browse/archive/objects/exhibition-poster-for-hand-in-hand
Ruth Bernhard
lenicolas
6-May-2021, 04:53
I find it interesting that 'we' must now know every image ever made
What will do in the year 2525 (https://youtu.be/1FgSmdfRUus)
I agree with Randy. The game of “guess who” isn’t that fun, and this thread would be more valuable if it allowed neophytes to get exposed to new names and new artists to discover. IMHO
Remember we’re all from different parts of the world, from different generations, and we came to photography at different times... one mans “mainstream famous influence” is another mans “artist from 70 years ago halfway around the world that I’ve never heard of”.
Tin Can
30-May-2021, 04:30
Inspired by Jim Fitzgerald's recent video https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?163894-Oregon-Public-Broadcasting-segment
The light through 'my' tree this morning at sunrise
SOL was knocking on my window loudly, it called 3 times, before coffee!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51212639968_e96eaa6052_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2m2uaDb)SunDay (https://flic.kr/p/2m2uaDb) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr
Rod Klukas
5-Aug-2021, 18:05
The portrait of the man in front of the building wall definitely reminds one of Paul Strand's work in Ireland.
Rod Klukas
5-Aug-2021, 18:08
niepce
This looks a bit like Henry Fox Talbot's shot from Tin Tern Abbey. One of the earliest photos made.
218367
(I couldn't resist when this arrived in the farm box)
Rod Klukas
5-Aug-2021, 18:10
Ruth Bernhard
Of course, but Imogen Cunningham also did similar work, and earlier Karl Blossfeldt used this same style.
Rod Klukas
5-Aug-2021, 18:11
Must be Pepper #40....
Martin Aislabie
22-Aug-2021, 08:39
218887
Homage to Bill Brandt
Martin
Daniel Unkefer
22-Aug-2021, 11:22
This one is probably obvious:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51158885262_a6123f282e.jpg
Hiro!
Love it! :)
Daniel Unkefer
22-Aug-2021, 11:23
Irving Penn
218892
Much Like here too!
Yes Penn
Tin Can
22-Aug-2021, 12:21
Yes!
218887
Homage to Bill Brandt
Martin
Neal Chaves
22-Aug-2021, 15:49
William S. McIntosh 1928-2021
It was my pleasure to assist Bill McIntosh on a number of assignments here in Virginia Beach, and to make some exhibition prints from his original 1950s negatives. He will be missed by all who knew him.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/pilotonline/name/william-mcintosh-obituary?pid=199835232
cuypers1807
27-Aug-2021, 15:07
Hiro!
Love it! :)
Thanks! I was going for Andreas Feininger.
Homage to Paul Caponigro.
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/eef209_d458d4414fef493a84357f5fecaeb17b~mv2.jpg
Merg Ross
18-Dec-2022, 22:00
Hi Gregg, nice homage to Paul. His 90th birthday was a few days ago.
Let me volunteer a thought, if you don't mind. Paul might have seen what you did. I think he would have printed the surrounding area of the white rock down a bit more and let the pearl glow. But then it wouldn't be your interpretation. Paul was a master silver printer. Last I heard he was still, "in the traditional darkroom with silver and chemistry."
Thanks for posting. Location?
Best,
Merg
nolindan
18-Dec-2022, 22:01
233783
John Layton
19-Dec-2022, 11:42
Perfect! (jar #30?)
Bernice Loui
20-Dec-2022, 13:03
233856
233857
Guess who..
The set up..
233859
233860
Key light, 2600 watt/second into the snoot with grid, "fill" light via round soft box feathered, 1400 watt/second.
Incident flashmeter reads f64.4 at the subject, exposure aperture F32 on the 9 1/2" Goerz APO artar, 1.5 f-stop bellows factor,
13x18cm Agfa APX100 (now about ISO 50 & Rodinal),
Compendium lens shade with curtain is mandatory due to the proximity of the lighting, Sinar P2 well "flexed"..
December indoors,
Bernice
Ulophot
20-Dec-2022, 14:15
Perfect! (jar #30?)
+1
Califmike33
20-Dec-2022, 19:20
++2 Bernice
Martin Aislabie
21-Dec-2022, 07:52
233856
233857
Guess who..
The set up..
233859
233860
Key light, 2600 watt/second into the snoot with grid, "fill" light via round soft box feathered, 1400 watt/second.
Incident flashmeter reads f64.4 at the subject, exposure aperture F32 on the 9 1/2" Goerz APO artar, 1.5 f-stop bellows factor,
13x18cm Agfa APX100 (now about ISO 50 & Rodinal),
Compendium lens shade with curtain is mandatory due to the proximity of the lighting, Sinar P2 well "flexed"..
December indoors,
Bernice
Bernice - that is a serious amount of lighting power for the shot.
And, there was me thinking 2000Ws was a lot for a still life - it just shows you what we do and don't know.
Martin
Bernice Loui
21-Dec-2022, 12:22
All relative, what is perceived as "serious amount of lighting power" was vastly common back in the days of studio centric sheet film image making.
Majority of folks working with sheet film in studio doing product images which are much like still-life had several 4000watt/second or 3000watt/second power packs with several flash heads and a Boat Load of light modifiers and a pile of grip and lighting related Do-Dads..
Alterative was to "multi-pop" which was also very, very common. That Minolta flash meter IV has a "multi" setting to meter the effective exposure f-stop after multi-pops from the strobe/flash. This was a common flash meter feature back in the day. Single was preferred, except single was not always an option.
Once the subject and camera was set, most of the time spent was on lighting followed by pull-A-roids before any film was exposed.
The two Elinchrom 3000AS power packs used for this setup..
233886
Kitty did a pose.
233887
Bernice
Bernice - that is a serious amount of lighting power for the shot.
And, there was me thinking 2000Ws was a lot for a still life - it just shows you what we do and don't know.
Martin
All relative, what is perceived as "serious amount of lighting power" was vastly common back in the days of studio centric sheet film image making.
Majority of folks working with sheet film in studio doing product images which are much like still-life had several 4000watt/second or 3000watt/second power packs with several flash heads and a Boat Load of light modifiers and a pile of grip and lighting related Do-Dads..
Alterative was to "multi-pop" which was also very, very common. That Minolta flash meter IV has a "multi" setting to meter the effective exposure f-stop after multi-pops from the strobe/flash. This was a common flash meter feature back in the day. Single was preferred, except single was not always an option.
Once the subject and camera was set, most of the time spent was on lighting followed by pull-A-roids before any film was exposed.
The two Elinchrom 3000AS power packs used for this setup..
233886
Kitty did a pose.
233887
Bernice
Hope you got "Krissy" off the set before you popped the strobes, or that's one "scaredy kat" with a perm!!!
Great set-up/result... Keep it up!!! ;)
Steve K
Hi Gregg, nice homage to Paul. His 90th birthday was a few days ago.
Let me volunteer a thought, if you don't mind. Paul might have seen what you did. I think he would have printed the surrounding area of the white rock down a bit more and let the pearl glow. But then it wouldn't be your interpretation. Paul was a master silver printer. Last I heard he was still, "in the traditional darkroom with silver and chemistry."
Thanks for posting. Location?
Best,
Merg
Thanks, Merg. I had already brought the surroundings of the "egg" down more than I might otherwise - and at that point it was far more of a departure from reality than I usually come up with! But perhaps I'm too timid. I'll try even more! The location was somewhere on the Oregon Coast, I think around Cape Lookout, if I recall correctly. I haven't gotten over to the coast lately, but I need to...
Gregg
Martin Aislabie
22-Dec-2022, 11:02
All relative, what is perceived as "serious amount of lighting power" was vastly common back in the days of studio centric sheet film image making.
Majority of folks working with sheet film in studio doing product images which are much like still-life had several 4000watt/second or 3000watt/second power packs with several flash heads and a Boat Load of light modifiers and a pile of grip and lighting related Do-Dads..
Alterative was to "multi-pop" which was also very, very common. That Minolta flash meter IV has a "multi" setting to meter the effective exposure f-stop after multi-pops from the strobe/flash. This was a common flash meter feature back in the day. Single was preferred, except single was not always an option.
Once the subject and camera was set, most of the time spent was on lighting followed by pull-A-roids before any film was exposed.
The two Elinchrom 3000AS power packs used for this setup..
233886
Bernice
Bernice - thanks for the explanation.
Martin
233925
Hommage to André Kertész
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.