508mm f/7 ILEX lenses

[Greg]

I have and use a 508mm f/7 Calumet Caltar ILEX lens in a No. 5 Universal Shutter on my 11x14. I have seen FS a 508mm f/7 ILEX Acutar and an ILEX 508mm f/7 Paragon in the same shutter. In the 1970s, I once owned a 508mm ILEX with a very, very low serial number. I assume that that one was of the first 508mm's and sold directly by ILEX. So obviously ILEX made all these lenses, and Calumet distributed them as Caltars. I was wondering who distributed Acutars and Paragons?

I read that Linhof sold only the top of the line Schneider lenses... am I right on that Bob? Or did Linhof just test its Schneider lenses before labeling them "Linhof"?

Was there any difference between Acutars, Caltars, and Paragons? To me seems that labeling the front of the lenses with the different brands, just occurred on the ILEX manufacturing line, and they were all just assumed to be optically equal... dangerous assumption. In the 1990s acquired a 24-120mm AF Nikkor. Was able to try out 5 or 6 samples of this optic, one stood out amazingly better than the other samples and bought it in an instant... to this day is one of the sharpest Nikkors that I own and use.

Just curious....

[Dan Fromm]

<throat clearing noises> http://www.galerie-photo.com/ilex-lenses.html The link is in the list.

Ilex sold Acutars and Paragons through the usual channels, didn't brand them to suit a distributor. As far as I know there were no major redesigns after release of any of Ilex's last gasp lenses. Paragon trade names came first, were replaced by Acugon (f/8 Super Angulon type), Acutar (tessar type), and Acuton (plasmat type).

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Off track, but curious (especially after looking at Dan's summary) is the 20" Ilex a triplet or a Tessar design? I have read conflicting information on their design and intended format. I read somewhere semi-reputable (an article in View Camera) that they were triplets with about 33* coverage (so, intended for 8x10), and have also heard that they are Tessars and great for 11x14. Any user information?

[DMS206]

I have one that says Orbit, 20” (500mm) f:7 made in USA, definitely a Tessar, covers 12x20 nicely

[Dan Fromm]

DMS206, thanks for the confirmation. Jason, if I recall correctly -- I wrote the article, haven't looked at it recently -- I worked through all the b.s. that's been posted about that lens and came down in favor of Tessar.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Thanks all, and sorry to hijack the tread.

[Mark Sampson]

I used to have a c.1975 Calumet catalog that included this lens (Caltar branded of course). I remember that they advertised it for studio work on 8x10, to give a good perspective when shooting food or crockery. Sadly that catalog is long gone so I can't tell you what, if any, tech details they'd provided. I will say, from personal experience, that Ilex made some very good lenses.

[Greg]

Dan, thank you for the info at
https://galerie-photo.com/ilex-lenses.html
In doing a search for info on the lens used "508mm" and "Caltar" which would exclude "20" and "Acutar" from the results. My first very, very low serial number 508mm ILEX covered 8x10 but allowed for very little movements which would confirm "the lens is a triplet that covers 35°. This means 320 mm, 8 x 10 with minimal movements."

Jason Greenberg Motamedi, as for user information: My current 508mm Calumet Caltar easily covers 11x14 and I've never ran out of movements. F/64 is definitely the sweet spot of my lens. Using the optic on my 11x14 is just a pleasure. Its f/7 aperture projects more like a f/5.6 optic on the GG.

[Dan Fromm]

Greg, quoting me against myself is entirely fair, but if you're going to do please quote more fully. The information you quoted comes from the late H. Lynn Jones. The man was highly accomplished and had a fine career but his memory wasn't the best and towards the end of his life his posts here and elsewhere seemed somewhat addled. Nothing he's posted can be believed until it has been checked and found to be true.

Its a shame you don't have your old lens and can't count reflections. I don't think Ilex changed their last gasp lenses' designs after launch but I've been mistaken before.

Cheers,

Dan

Oh, yeah, I searched for "the lens is a triplet that covers 35°. This means 320 mm, 8 x 10 with minimal movements," got one hit. It was to an unauthorized copy of my article at technodocbox.com.

[Chauncey Walden]

It occurred to me that I had a 508mm kicking around. I managed to find it but it is a f/5.6 Bausch and Lomb Tele. It must be lacking in coverage as I put it on a 5x7 board so 6.5x8.5 at most. Don't recall ever shooting with it. It is a moose of a lens. 2 strong reflections in front and 3 in the rear. It is coated. I wonder for what it was intended?

[Dan Fromm]

Chauncey, USAF used a 20"/5.6 B&L tele on I-know-not-which 35 mm camera. If the data sheet is to be believed it was poorly achromatized, had high resolution.

But the cross-section looks like a classic tele with a cemented doublet at each end of the tube. Short back focus, ~ 5" at infinity.

[Corran]

I have one of the f/5.6 teles, salvaged from an estate lot, where it was installed on a Leica III with mirror box (!).

No shutter of course but holding it up to 8x10 it seemed to at least illuminate the GG fully. One of these days I'll get it on a camera (I have a Packard shutter I've never used). Should be fun, at the least.

There's some info online about them if you search, mostly similar stories of "got it cheap, haven't used it."

[Chauncey Walden]

Dan, thanks for the info. This one weighs a little over four and a half pounds and the back focus is about 12 to 14 inches so might be a bit much for a 35;-) It probably is military though in spite of its full commercial looking info "BAUSCH & LOMB OPT. CO. ROCHESTER, N.Y., U.S.A. TELEPHOTO ANASTIGMAT FOCAL LENGTH 20 INCH (508MM) F/5.6 and then the serial. Has a military sounding serial VFxxxxRm and has some posts on both the inner and outer sides of the "hood" for filters of some kind. f/5.6 to f/45 with a nice circular 20 bladed diaphragm. Maybe a 4x5 roll aerial camera but no way to automate the aperture so would have to be hand set. Guess I'll have to shoot it to see.

[Dan Fromm]

Well, the posts make it a lens for an aerial camera. They accept a spring-loaded filter holder that won't vibrate off.

[cowanw]

I have two of these 508mm Ilex-Calumet Caltars. one with serial number in the one hundreds and one in the four thousands. While there are superficial differences in the Universal Synchro shutter's knurled ring, the lenses look precisely the same.
The back group shows three bright reflections; an enormous top surface reflection, a medium sized strong one which goes to one side and a teeny weaker one on the opposite side.
The front group show four bright reflections; three blue tinted and one (I presume the front surface) is rose coloured. Make of that what you will.

[Dan Fromm]

Bill, it sounds like a tessar type.

[cowanw]

That was my conclusion too; the small third reflection was so small I did not see it the first two times I looked.

[Dan Fromm]

Y'know, when I was writing the article I did my homework as thoroughly as I could.

[aphcl84]

I have a couple copies of the spec sheets for the Acutar lenses, however the specs for the 500mm 6.3 is not directly shown. 200784200785

[cowanw]

Y'know, when I was writing the article I did my homework as thoroughly as I could.

Credit where credit is due.

[cowanw]

Page 22
https://www.cameraeccentric.com/static/img/pdfs/calumet_2.pdf

[Leszek Vogt]

Allow me to add to this frey, what would be the bellows length for this 508mm ? I did see "Acutar" on the fleebay and it's rather spendy.

Les

[Dan Fromm]

Allow me to add to this frey, what would be the bellows length for this 508mm ? I did see "Acutar" on the fleebay and it's rather spendy.

Les

Long. It is a 500 mm lens of normal construction, will want ~ 500 mm extension to focus to infinity. Closer will need more.

Spendy? Asking isn't getting.

[Mark Sampson]

Dan, i think we all know that you do your homework. And I, for one, appreciate the fact that you share the hard-earned knowledge.

[Greg]

Page 22
https://www.cameraeccentric.com/static/img/pdfs/calumet_2.pdf

Thanks for the post of the Calumet catalog
On page 30:
L-120 500mm Caltar (20") f/6.3 Acme M/X $330.00
interesting... have never come across or even heard of this version of a 500mm Caltar.

[cowanw]

Pretty sure that is a misprint and the copy editors just got into the rhythm of 6.3 and forgot the 500mm was the exception at f7.

[Greg]

Pretty sure that is a misprint and the copy editors just got into the rhythm of 6.3 and forgot the 500mm was the exception at f7.

Or could have been a 500mm f/6.3 Bausch & Lomb Plastigmat listed in my Burke & James catalog as covering 11x14, pre Calumet outsourcing to ILEX....
na, I think you're correct it's a misprint.
But now will be on the lookout for a 500mm f/6.3 Bausch & Lomb Plastigmat

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Based on the conversation here I picked up one of the 20” f7 Ilex lenses. I can now verify that it is indeed a Tessar, not a triplet, as witnessed by the doublet rear element. This also verifies that, as is usual, Dan is correct.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200326/57f183ef56a9cfd43aec75c274183a6f.jpg

My version is branded by Calumet. Maybe this weekend I will try it out on an 11x14,

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200326/000401248926bbc58a05a3d457a6bd0e.jpg

[David Lindquist]

Nicely done, thank you.
David

[Helcio J Tagliolatto]

There are 4 reflections, indeed.
204260

[cowanw]

Intersesting, based on serial numbers there are over 1000 of these. Quite a lot, I am thinking.

[fuegocito]

Intersesting, based on serial numbers there are over 1000 of these. Quite a lot, I am thinking.

Mine is an Acutar #129, I am imagining each different naming comes with its own set of serial numbers.

[cowanw]

Just noticing that Helcio's Ilex calumet is 1009 and Jason's is 159; mine is under 100 and that is just Ilex-Calumet's!

[Dan Fromm]

Mine is an Acutar #129, I am imagining each different naming comes with its own set of serial numbers.

I don't think so.

[fuegocito]

I don't think so.

Not that I care but are you saying it's possible that an Acutar #129 is follow by an Ilex-Calumet #130??? Somehow I can't imagine that is the case.

[Dan Fromm]

Not that I care but are you saying it's possible that an Acutar #129 is follow by an Ilex-Calumet #130??? Somehow I can't imagine that is the case.

Same production line. All that changes is the trim ring. And when I was looking at Ilex lenses while writing my article on them I saw, e.g., 90/8s with all possible badges and serial numbers in the same range. If you haven't read the article you should. The list has a link to it.

Possibly not relevant, but that's what Yamasaki Optical, who sold lenses with their own brand (Congo) and with various resellers' badges, did.

[fuegocito]

Maybe we are not talking about the same thing here, what I am saying it's more likely that all the one with Actar name gets its own set of serial number, and all the Ilex Calumet get its own set of serial number...

[Dan Fromm]

We are talking about the same thing. We don't agree.

To restate what I understand, Ilex sold, for example, f/8 Super Angulon type lenses as Wide Field Paragon and Acugon. Calumet sold the same lenses as Ilex-Calumet Wide Field Caltar. Burleigh Brooks sold them as Acu-Veriwide. As I understand it they were numbered sequentially within focal length, regardless of trade name on the trim ring. One set of serial numbers for 47 mm lenses, another for 65ers and one more for 90ers.

I could be mistaken. Convincing me that I am will take evidence such as two of these lenses with different trade names and the same focal length and s/n.

As far as I know Ilex' production records like the Zeiss, Rodenstock, ... records that Hartmut Thiele mined no longer exist. Modern Ilex LF lenses are thin on the ground so compiling s/n lists by model, focal length and trade name is going to be difficult and will take quite a while.