View Full Version : Toyo 5x7 deluxe monorail bellows and lens question
Today I was fortunate enough to be given a TOYO V Deluxe monorail 5x7. I can't seem to find anything about this model on google. The owner said it had been sitting in his garage for at least 25 years. Is it a common model? What age would it be?
Anyhow, the bellows is 100% toast, where might I find a replacement, I looked on toyoview.com but that wasn't any help. If I can buy the bellows does it come with the flange on either end of the bellows or do I have to attach them myself?
The lens is a 180mm f4.5 K.Yamasaki Congo, there is a Wikipedia page about these lenses. Are they any good? I have other lenses I can use if I can find a lensboard for this camera.
thanks for any help.
Your closest bellows may be China, look on eBay
I have bought from Custom Bellows with really great results http://www.custombellows.co.uk/index.html
Some here are looking into https://dynatect.com/product/protective-covers/bellows/custom-bellows/
or DIY, bag bellows are relatively simple to make
Bernice Loui
6-Feb-2020, 11:00
Long as the bellows frames are good, the bellows can be replaced. This will likely be made to order or DIY. Check with one of the bellows manufactures about getting a bellows made to order, delivery and cost.
Lens, most any lens in shutter can be used on this camera. The 180mm f4.5 is likely a tessar formula and good long as the glass is in reasonable condition. Shutter will be more problematic as it is subject to a host of mechanical ills.. that can often be fixed-cured.
Picture of this camera?
Bernice
Your closest bellows may be China, look on eBay
I have bought from Custom Bellows with really great results http://www.custombellows.co.uk/index.html
Some here are looking into https://dynatect.com/product/protective-covers/bellows/custom-bellows/
or DIY, bag bellows are relatively simple to make
Many thanks for those links.
I also found this company in England, any experience with them?
http://www.custombellows.co.uk/index.html?LMCL=duZDn5
Long as the bellows frames are good, the bellows can be replaced. This will likely be made to order or DIY. Check with one of the bellows manufactures about getting a bellows made to order, delivery and cost.
Lens, most any lens in shutter can be used on this camera. The 180mm f4.5 is likely a tessar formula and good long as the glass is in reasonable condition. Shutter will be more problematic as it is subject to a host of mechanical ills.. that can often be fixed-cured.
Picture of this camera?
Bernice
The bellow frames are in perfect condition.
Here are two pics of it.
Bob Salomon
6-Feb-2020, 12:54
The bellow frames are in perfect condition.
Here are two pics of it.
Those are pictures of the camera’s front and rear standards that the bellows mounts to.
The bellows frames are on the bellows itself, you will see them once you detach the bellows from the standards.
Those are pictures of the camera’s front and rear standards that the bellows mounts to.
The bellows frames are on the bellows itself, you will see them once you detach the bellows from the standards.
The pics were in response to Bernice who asked for pictures of the camera.
Here are pics of the bellows frames.
200361200360
Yes many here use them, they make excellent bellows
They MAY even glue them to your frames, btw, those Toyo frames with the large flat surfaces make glueing easy if you use the right glue, which eludes me at this moment
Many thanks for those links.
I also found this company in England, any experience with them?
http://www.custombellows.co.uk/index.html?LMCL=duZDn5
The next question, which you should research everywhere, including eBay is how long do you WANT and NEED the bellows to be
C. D. Keth
6-Feb-2020, 13:46
I like to be able to focus a normal lens at 1:1. In reality the vast majority of what I do would be fine with maybe 160% of the bellows for a normal lens at infinity.
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Bob Salomon
6-Feb-2020, 13:52
The pics were in response to Bernice who asked for pictures of the camera.
Here are pics of the bellows frames.
200361200360
As long as they aren’t bent they should be fine.
And normal for most formats is the film diagonal, 5X7 generally use 210mm, read this http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/bellows.php
I like to be able to focus a normal lens at 1:1. In reality the vast majority of what I do would be fine with maybe 160% of the bellows for a normal lens at infinity.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bernice Loui
8-Feb-2020, 11:14
They look OK, long as they are not bent too bad (these appear good), have or make a new bellows for the camera.
Clean up, lube and check out the camera mechanicals for proper operation. Check-verify the proper ground glass position if a fresnel lens has been applied to the rear of this view camera.
As for bellows length, the rail of this camera might not be extendable beyond what is on the camera now. If this is correct, make a bellows slightly longer than the max end to end position of the camera standards while allowing for max rise-fall, swing-tilt of BOTH front & rear camera standards. The trade off is minimum distance between camera standards which will fix the shortest focal length lens possible on this camera without using a bag bellows.
Bernice
The pics were in response to Bernice who asked for pictures of the camera.
Here are pics of the bellows frames.
200361200360
They look OK, long as they are not bent too bad (these appear good), have or make a new bellows for the camera.
Clean up, lube and check out the camera mechanicals for proper operation. Check-verify the proper ground glass position if a fresnel lens has been applied to the rear of this view camera.
As for bellows length, the rail of this camera might not be extendable beyond what is on the camera now. If this is correct, make a bellows slightly longer than the max end to end position of the camera standards while allowing for max rise-fall, swing-tilt of BOTH front & rear camera standards. The trade off is minimum distance between camera standards which will fix the shortest focal length lens possible on this camera without using a bag bellows.
Bernice
Thanks for all of the helpful replies. Yes the bellows frames look to be in perfect condition. I am going to engage custom bellows company to build the bellows.
This is such a nice forum, it doesn't seem to have the huge egos that so many photo forums have, thanks again for all of your replies.
I've managed to fit a Rodenstock APO 360mm lens onto the lens board so I'm all good in the lens department. This may be a silly question but the film holders that came with it are 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 Lisco holders, just want to check that they will take 5x7 Ilford film?
The 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 film holders are for a different film format, but their outer dimension is the same as a 5x7" holder. You will have to get some 5x7" holders (or cut film to 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 size). The 5x7", 13x18 cm, 12,5x16 cm and the 6 1/2 x 4 3/4" film holders share the same outer dimension, but one has to fit the right size film to each one of them ...
Sellers sometimes get the sizes mixed up (been on the receiving end, getting oddball stuff), so it pays to check any photos thoroughly and ask some questions if unsure before plunking the money down.
The 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 film holders are for a different film format, but their outer dimension is the same as a 5x7" holder. You will have to get some 5x7" holders (or cut film to 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 size). The 5x7", 13x18 cm, 12,5x16 cm and the 6 1/2 x 4 3/4" film holders share the same outer dimension, but one has to fit the right size film to each one of them ...
Sellers sometimes get the sizes mixed up (been on the receiving end, getting oddball stuff), so it pays to check any photos thoroughly and ask some questions if unsure before plunking the money down.
I can't see any 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 film for sale anywhere so I'll make up a jig to cut 5x7 film to size. How long since 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 film was made?
I did a check on ebay and noticed a few ads for "5 x 7" holders which on closer inspection are the same as mine. Must have been a common size once?
Jim Galli
18-Feb-2020, 22:59
I wonder if a Cambo bellows would fit. I know the ends are different but bellows dimensions sure look close. I might ask an ebay seller to get out a ruler for 69 bucks. Just me. The folks in England make beautiful bellows. I have one on my 5X12.
Oren Grad
18-Feb-2020, 23:07
I can't see any 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 film for sale anywhere...
Ilford offers that size as part of its annual special-order program for less-common sheet film sizes. Orders are taken in the spring and delivered in early fall.
I did a check on ebay and noticed a few ads for "5 x 7" holders which on closer inspection are the same as mine. Must have been a common size once?
Probably. From my experience, at least the plastic (Lisco, Fidelity) 12x16.5, 13x18 and 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 holders are marked with their actual size in white lettering.
Try some paper negatives for a start, it's cheaper than "wasting" film sheets when you start out and you can cut it in the darkroom with safety lights on.
Ilford offers that size as part of its annual special-order program for less-common sheet film sizes. Orders are taken in the spring and delivered in early fall.
I looked on the Ilford website but can't see anything about this program, could you provide a link to it, please?
Ilford offers that size as part of its annual special-order program for less-common sheet film sizes. Orders are taken in the spring and delivered in early fall.
After a bit of searching I found the page for this
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/ulf
Thabks for letting me know about it!
My replacement bellows arrived from Custom Bellows today, what amazing craftsmanship! As I posted earlier I have put a 360mm lens on to its lensboard, and I've cut some 5x7 film and loaded a film holder so I'm good to go! Thanks to everyone for your help.
Joseph Kashi
30-Mar-2020, 21:50
BH Photo Video in New York often has Ilford 5x7 BW film in stock. That's been the most reliable on-demand supplier that I've found.
Roger Thoms
31-Mar-2020, 01:46
My replacement bellows arrived from Custom Bellows today, what amazing craftsmanship! As I posted earlier I have put a 360mm lens on to its lensboard, and I've cut some 5x7 film and loaded a film holder so I'm good to go! Thanks to everyone for your help.
Great to see you have the camera up and running. Might not hurt to invest in a few 5x7 holders, it would save having to cut film down.
Roger
Shot a test today, it has a light leak. I noticed that the bellows plate does not sit perfectly snugly against the rear standard so took the sliding clamp apart and bent the spring a bit, reassembled it, it seems better but still not 100%. Looking at this neg, I'm wondering if the leak is to do with the film holder not seating properly? I ran a strong light around where the bellows meets the rear standard with the film holder removed and could not see any hint of a leak. I did not fully remove the darkslide, just enough to clear the film area. Any hints from LF old heads would be appreciated.
202120
tdicorcia
2-Apr-2020, 03:50
...I did not fully remove the darkslide, just enough to clear the film area. Any hints from LF old heads would be appreciated.
202120
Here is a poll on Large Format Photography Forum about whether people take the slide all the way out. A couple of respoonses mention the possibility of a light leak if the slide is left partially in. In any case, the overwhelming majority remove it. Note that you should reverse the slide anyway as a reminder that sheet has been exposed.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-74781.html
After some detective work, I discovered the cause of my light leak. The film holder can be inserted in the back either way, I didn't think it mattered but upon closer inspection, one side, the side I inserted it into, has the notch shown in the photo and light was entering there. Tonight I did another test shot and I used the other side so that the side with the notch was at the bottom of the film holder, no light leaks! Anyone know what that notch is for?
202160
Here is a poll on Large Format Photography Forum about whether people take the slide all the way out. A couple of respoonses mention the possibility of a light leak if the slide is left partially in. In any case, the overwhelming majority remove it. Note that you should reverse the slide anyway as a reminder that sheet has been exposed.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-74781.html
I put a little adhesive dot on the side I have exposed. I've had too many negs ruined by light leaks caused by removing the dark slide.
Great to see you have the camera up and running. Might not hurt to invest in a few 5x7 holders, it would save having to cut film down.
Roger
I'd love to buy some 5 x 7 holders but every time I see "5x7" holders advertised on eBay they are actually 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 holders which are the ones I already have. Any tips as to where I could buy actual 5 x 7 holders would be appreciated.
Roger Thoms
2-Apr-2020, 09:10
I'd love to buy some 5 x 7 holders but every time I see "5x7" holders advertised on eBay they are actually 6 1/2 x 4 3/4 holders which are the ones I already have. Any tips as to where I could buy actual 5 x 7 holders would be appreciated.
Just did a search for 5x7 holder on eBay and I found tons of them. Only problem is most of them are priced very high and many of the sellers are selling them as is and no returns. I did find a few listing that looked promising. The other place to keep an eye out is the classified here on LFPF and on Photrio, they do come up occasionally. I bought most of my 5x7 holders from the classified here. You just have to be patient. The other possibility it to place a WTB ad here in the classified. Good luck with your search.
Roger
Just did a search for 5x7 holder on eBay and I found tons of them. Only problem is most of them are priced very high and many of the sellers are selling them as is and no returns. I did find a few listing that looked promising. The other place to keep an eye out is the classified here on LFPF and on Photrio, they do come up occasionally. I bought most of my 5x7 holders from the classified here. You just have to be patient. The other possibility it to place a WTB ad here in the classified. Good luck with your search.
Roger
The ones I've found are way overpriced. Actually I'd be willing to swap Exc 8x10 holders for 5x7 holders, one for one.
Roger Thoms
3-Apr-2020, 08:19
The ones I've found are way overpriced. Actually I'd be willing to swap Exc 8x10 holders for 5x7 holders, one for one.
I don’t have any holders that I’m will to part with right now. Plus I have a good supply of 8x10 holders. A want to trade ad in the classified would certainly get you some 5x7 holders or sell your 8x10 holders to fund the purchase of some 5x7 holders.
Roger
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