Processing Troubles

[Two23]

Just this month I now have a Kodak 2D 8x10 and a SP810 tank. I've made three attempts at processing some FP4+ in the SP810. I have been using the SP445 for the past year and consistently got great results with it. For the first round with the SP810 I did four sheets FP4+ 4x5 sheets. They came out OK. I only used 475ml instead of 500ml fluid, mainly because my measuring cylinder is marked for use with the SP445 and I forgot. I next tried processing two sheets of 8x10 FP4+, and those didn't come out so well. I think the problem was I used an uncoated Dagor 240mm lens and pointed it south on a sunny day. Sure looked like a lot of flare going on. Second pair was shot on a heavy overcast day. One shot was taken Nikon 300mm f9 M, the second with a 300mm Velostigmat c.1930. I had a light leak with the first shot on one corner and I'm assuming I didn't insert the holder correctly. Second shot had all kinds of weirdness going on. I'm not sure what it's from. Thinking back I did up the fluid from 475ml to 500ml (distilled water and HC110.) I sort of guessed at how much HC110 to add and filled the syringe with just a bit more than what I had marked for 475ml. Water temp was 69 F so I set the timer for 7:30 minutes. Checking the temp of the fluid right before I dumped it I found it to be 73 F. Not sure why it gained four degrees in less than 7 minutes. Did two stop baths with tap water like I always do, used PF 4 fixer (fresh batch) for 5 minutes as I always do. Negative came out with weird areas that should have been white (frosted rock wall to the right of the waterfall.) Not sure what caused this--haven't seen it before. I narrowed it down to either too long a time developing for the temperature + too much HC110, or my agitation wasn't correct. I did four lifts of the tray every 30s, or about 10-15s agitation every 30s. I do full inversions with the SP445 which is much more intensive.

So, any ideas?


Kent in SD

[NHE]

It’s a little hard to tell what’s going on, but it seems like the first picture looks correctly processed minus the light leak and the scanner is trying to correct for the extra density in the area of the light leak. The second looks like some of my negatives where I didn’t agitate enough. Having just started with 8x10 recently(maybe 30 sheets in), taking notes is extremely important especially when it comes to processing. There is nothing worse for me than taking the time to setup a shot only to not process it correctly. It might help to post pictures of the negatives.

[DMS206]

Looks like uneven development, and overdevelopment, you could try a presoak for a couple of minutes, correct temperature water, and a pinch of sodium metaborate.

[Fred L]

yeah, the whites look very dull. is these neg scans or prints ? possible to see the negatives ?

[Jim Noel]

You need to tighten up your procedures if you want tests to mean anything. Seeing how "approximate" your procedures are I suspect the temperature gain is from that same approach and not allowing enough time for the thermometer to adjust in the first trial. What was the temperature of the added water? Guessing at amounts of developer concentrate to add can easily lead to unexpected results.

[Mark Sampson]

I've found, when developing sheet film in a tank, that a 5-minute presoak in a dilute Kodalk solution helps eliminate uneven development (like DMS206 says above).
Agitation at less frequent intervals helps with that too. And as Mr. Noel says, consistent and correct technique is vital... although I have had to re-learn that lesson many times myself.

[Doremus Scudder]

There may be nothing wrong with your processing... If you have a light leak and the scanner is somehow adjusting for that extra density, what we're seeing is no indication of what's really on the negative. How about a photo of the negatives themselves (edges included) on a light table?

Doremus

[Two23]

Don't have a light table big enough for 8x10, but is there a way to turn my computer monitor white and tape negs to that? Could then photo with my Nikon D850 and 105mm macro. I did pretty much everything with the SP810 that I've been successfully doing with the SP445 for the past year, with exception of agitation. I assumed I could simply begin shooting 8x10 and processing the same way I've been doing 4x5 and 5x7 for the past 20 years but something is throwing me a curve ball. Will tighten up on the chemical mixing and water temp and see where that gets me.


Kent in SD

[robshepherd]

Kent,

You could open your email client and maximize it to get a white screen on your computer. If you're on a Windows computer, try opening Notepad full screen. Either of those should give you a white background and a down and dirty light table.

[Fred L]

create a text document and make it full size on your screen. I do this if I'm processing on the road. or create a new PS image with white background.

[Two23]

Was out today photo'ing the ice races on Lake Brant using Nikon D850. Decided to try a couple of sheets of FP4+ in the Kodak 2D 8x10. Exposure was "Sunny 22", simple enough. Was very fastidious with processing. I think my problem is now pretty obvious! Will get a flashlight out and the top of the back for the obvious light leak. Will also check bellows attachment too, of course. I was having trouble getting the back (and holder) to sit tightly.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

Well, bigger problems than I though. Shining a flashlight around inside the camera I discovered not one but several sources of light leaks:

1. The brass clips on the rear standard don't pull the back up tightly. There is some play.
2. The 8x10 back has a slight diagonal warp.
3. Film holders do not completely cover up the opening. I tried both vintage ones and modern plastic ones.

So, I'm not sure what to do. The brass clips might be able to be bent a little to tighten things up, but very carefully! That would probably get rid of the play in the back and pull it up tight despite the slight warp. The holders leaving a gap seems more problematic.


Kent in SD

[Willie]

A new back without any warp should solve this problem - as long as the camera body does not have any warps.

For now - try the Morley Baer wrap. Morley's 8x10 had bellows leaks and he would compose, focus and put in a film holder and use the dark cloth to wrap the camera - covering the light leaks. Then shoot and get the dark slide back in the holder without leaving things open for any length of time. Might try a shot or two doing that and see if it will allow you images without the light leaks.

A roll of Gaffer's tape and covering the area may be doable until you get it fixed.

Best of luck on it.

[Fred L]

glad you seem to have found the problem with the leaks. wonder of spring clamps can be used to tighten up the mating, until you come to a more long term solution (ideally a replacement back)

[Doremus Scudder]

I don't understand the gap you're speaking of... If it is due to the warp, then a bit of woodworking/machining seems to be in order. But if the filmholders aren't covering the opening for some reason, I would think that they weren't being inserted properly. You may want to find a small-parts machinist or fine woodworker in your area and get their opinion(s) if you don't feel you have the skills and tools to deal with the problems yourself.

But don't despair! As my favorite mechanic once stated: "It's a machine; it can be repaired."

Good luck,

Doremus

[Two23]

I don't understand the gap you're speaking of... If it is due to the warp, then a bit of woodworking/machining seems to be in order. But if the filmholders aren't covering the opening for some reason, I would think that they weren't being inserted properly. You may want to find a small-parts machinist or fine woodworker in your area and get their opinion(s) if you don't feel you have the skills and tools to deal with the problems yourself.

But don't despair! As my favorite mechanic once stated: "It's a machine; it can be repaired."

Good luck,

Doremus

I'm going to look at it more closely tonight. I think the biggest issue is the brass clips not lining up and catching properly. The warp isn't great and the clips could conceivably pull everything tight if they were positioned right. I am having trouble figuring out how to insert the holder. They aren't as easy as my Chamonix45. I do have a professional woodworking shop in a nearby town that likes small projects.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

Will continue thread on the camera forum, "Kodak 2D Light Leaks".


Kent in SD