Servicing an old lens... worth it?

[jpheneger]

I have acquired a new (to me) Improved Seneca View 6.5x8.5 camera in fantastic condition, with the only exception being the lens shutter.

This camera has the original Wollensak 6.5x8.5 f/4 lens that this camera was sold with, but the shutter doesn't close. From a bit of testing, it would seem that this is an issue with springs (or other internal component) and not the shutter itself. When only slightly triggered, the shutter closes.

I'd love to keep the lens and body together and functional, but I don't know where I could get it serviced and whether or not it would be worth the expense. A quick search of Ebay did *not* produce any promising leads.

Side note - does anyone know if this camera needs a specific type of film holder? Another post about this camera mentioned Kodak holders, but I didnt get much else from it.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[jpheneger]

The camera/lens in question.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/d814e23ec1f44ba53d8562214fe8c5d6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/5f18f45f2fb3acf4dd3b5f4d96c93e43.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/d14d3f6ee6d354f00b9743feec3fdcaf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/1805bdf0c523ee30b3225b131c516703.jpg

[Two23]

Exactly what lens? If a velostigmat it is worth fixing. Holders were not standardized and might be more of a problem.

[Chauncey Walden]

Isn't that a US 4 and not an f/4? So equivalent is f/8 and probably a Rapid Rectilinear? A very nice looking camera by the way. If the shutter will open and close consistently at T or B, get some slow film and stop the lens down and you will be good to go. Pick up any whole plate film holder you can find. You may get lucky.

[paulbarden]

Side note - does anyone know if this camera needs a specific type of film holder? Another post about this camera mentioned Kodak holders, but I didnt get much else from it.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Josh, 6.5 X 8.5 is Whole Plate dimension. I don't know for a fact if the Seneca conforms to any standard for their plate holders, but if you find a Whole Plate holder branded Seneca, then its a good bet it'll work. Other Whole Plate holders might work also, but it may be a gamble.

[Leszek Vogt]

I saw couple of 6.5x8.5 holders on the auction site....rather expensive for my taste. You may choose to wait ? The size is bit off; therefore, it would be even more rare to find these on CL. As to the shutter, I'd contact Carol in Whittier (tho there are others) and make a precise determination (also ask if she has parts for this)....and see what she says as to remedy and cost.

I'd definitely measure the space where the holder slides in and project that to a potential seller.....making sure things match.

Les

[jpheneger]

Isn't that a US 4 and not an f/4? So equivalent is f/8 and probably a Rapid Rectilinear? A very nice looking camera by the way. If the shutter will open and close consistently at T or B, get some slow film and stop the lens down and you will be good to go. Pick up any whole plate film holder you can find. You may get lucky.

Not sure how I'd tell the difference between US 4 and f/4. There isn't much information on the lens. The issue this camera has (the only issue) is the shutter does not close once opened (any setting). I am hoping that it just needs an adjustment, or maybe new springs, but not sure where/if it can be serviced.

[jpheneger]

Exactly what lens? If a velostigmat it is worth fixing. Holders were not standardized and might be more of a problem.

The front element says "Wollensak 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 Rapid Symmetrical" and the shutter says "AUTEX". The plate above the aperture slider reads from f/4 to f/256, but I just noticed that it has numbers for multiple focal lengths, so it may not actually be f/4 for this particular configuration.

[jpheneger]

I saw couple of 6.5x8.5 holders on the auction site....rather expensive for my taste. You may choose to wait ? The size is bit off; therefore, it would be even more rare to find these on CL. As to the shutter, I'd contact Carol in Whittier (tho there are others) and make a precise determination (also ask if she has parts for this)....and see what she says as to remedy and cost.

I'd definitely measure the space where the holder slides in and project that to a potential seller.....making sure things match.

Les

"Carol in Whittier"? Not much to go on... can I get a bit more detail please?

[jpheneger]

Josh, 6.5 X 8.5 is Whole Plate dimension. I don't know for a fact if the Seneca conforms to any standard for their plate holders, but if you find a Whole Plate holder branded Seneca, then its a good bet it'll work. Other Whole Plate holders might work also, but it may be a gamble.

I assume that holders of the same dimensions, but are Tachihara won't be the right fit for this camera? Those Tachihara holders look pretty badass though!

[jpheneger]

"Carol in Whittier"? Not much to go on... can I get a bit more detail please?

I found another post using "Carol in Whittier" and found flutotscamerarepair.com. I've reached out to Carol for help, we'll see where that goes! Thanks a TON for the name Lezek Vogt!

[Leszek Vogt]

Pardon, I didn't have her email handy. Glad you found it.

[Steven Tribe]

Go visit http://www.piercevaubel.com/cam/catalogs/1911senecalp262.htm

If you havn’t already found Vaubel’s catalogues!

[Jim Jones]

If the aperture sequence is 4, 8, 15, 32, 64, 128, it is the old U. S system where 4=f/8, 8=f/11, 16=f/16, 32=f/22, etc. This system made more sense in the days before practical light meters where exposure was often mentally calculated.

[Louis Pacilla]

The front element says "Wollensak 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 Rapid Symmetrical" and the shutter says "AUTEX". The plate above the aperture slider reads from f/4 to f/256, but I just noticed that it has numbers for multiple focal lengths, so it may not actually be f/4 for this particular configuration.

Your lens is marked in "US" stops NOT "F" so it's US4=F8 US8=f11 US16=f16 US22=f32 US32=F64 & so on.

Each half of your convertible rapid rectilinear when combined has a focal length at US4 or F8. With each cell being a different focal length so that each half can be used on it's own as a landscape lens of longer focal length. The half being used should be placed in the rear of shutter and of course your US or F stops doubles for each half used individually. Hope this makes sense and good luck.

[Louis Pacilla]

If the aperture sequence is 4, 8, 15, 32, 64, 128, it is the old U. S system where 4=f/8, 8=f/11, 16=f/16, 32=f/22, etc. This system made more sense in the days before practical light meters where exposure was often mentally calculated.

And I was beat to this by brother Jim.

[Two23]

The lens is a fairly common type. Probably won't be economical to repair.


Kent in SD

[Greg]

Seriously I'd consider removing the front lens elements and the shutter's top plate. Twice I've done this, once with a Betax #5 and another time with a shutter that looks very much like the one you have and was able to fix the shutters by just "reconnecting" parts. Unfortunately more than twice I have done this but have not been able to get the shutters working. Best to do this inside a 16x20 darkroom tray that is in the darkrooms sink. If a part jumps out you'll have a way better chance of finding it as opposed to having its trajectory lead it to fall on a rug...

[C. D. Keth]

I would go with Greg’s method just above. It’s going to be expensive to service by a pro. Chances are, you can open it up carefully and DIY. Have some dental picks, toothpicks, cotton swabs, alcohol, a couple little plastic pipettes, machine oil, and light grease handy when you do it. That way you’ll be prepared to clean and re-oil or re-grease any spots that look like they need it. Note that the actual shutter blades in most shutter are meant to run totally dry and you’d have to be very careful to keep them that way. They shouldn’t have any oil on them at all, the large surface area will make a lot of surface tension that will bind up the blades.


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[Whir-Click]

Firstly, that’s a gorgeous Seneca.

Secondly, your lens/shutter combo dates between 1909 (the introduction of the Autex) and about 1911 (the discontinuation of the Rapid Symmetrical).

The lens is triple convertible, as your aperture scales indicate. What’s interesting to me is that I didn’t know Wollensak offered the the US scale on shutters - even the earliest Rauber and Wollensak shutters I have seen bear f-stops - but I guess Wollensak gave the customers what they wanted.

[jpheneger]

Everything about this camera says it was hidden away until recently. There are almost no signs of wear and tear. It's almost too pretty to shoot with! Haha!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/8b793c0b680993f4bbbd8b23a5be11ce.jpg

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[John Kasaian]

"Carol in Whittier"? Not much to go on... can I get a bit more detail please?

Carol at Flutot's Camera Repair in Whittier
http://flutotscamerarepair.com/
Beware there may be a waiting list---she does great work!

[Jim Noel]

Not sure how I'd tell the difference between US 4 and f/4. There isn't much information on the lens. The issue this camera has (the only issue) is the shutter does not close once opened (any setting). I am hoping that it just needs an adjustment, or maybe new springs, but not sure where/if it can be serviced.
Just in front of the first number either "f" or "US" will tell you which it is. The lens is a triple convertible, and if my ancient brain is correct, it uses the US system. With both front and rear elements in place the top row of numbers are the correct aperture. That camera is a beauty!

[Jim Noel]

after seeing the photo of the shutter, the lens uses the "f" system. It is a rapid rectilinear triple convertible.

[Tin Can]

Here's a Packard conversion done long ago

I think this camera is a couple years older than yours

However I put in a much newer lens with a bad shutter, but I can also use an old lens like yours, I have 3 similar to yours all broken with excellent glass, just got another broken brass shutter, very dirty, but glass is fine. I would much rather not CLA every lens and don't

One Packard can shoot many lenses! I have done a few modern Packard conversions, but this was the easiest to show right now

Your camera can easily mount an internal Packard

This also has working vintage sync

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49454955286_cea6412483_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imazdS)Konana 5X7 (https://flic.kr/p/2imazdS) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49455184752_ea5051ed3c_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2imbKrb)Korona 5X7 Packard (https://flic.kr/p/2imbKrb) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Chauncey Walden]

Jim, that "F" is the focal length. The aperture numbers are US.