How to identify the film holder type for a unbranded large format camera

[determadshansen]

I'm trying to identify the type of film holder used in an unbranded wooden tailboard camera, that I stumbled upon in an antique store next to where I work in Denmark.

The store didn't know that much about the camera, but had good information on the lens.
A Xenar f4.5 27cm lens without a shutter mechanism, made by Jos. Schneider & Co Kreuznach.

I've spent a couple of days comparing it to different cameras on various webpages.
I find it very similar looking to the german reisekamera-types made by Ernst Herbst & Firl, model named Globus M, K, A, etc.
Later known by Ernemann and at some point sold to Neue Görlitzer Camera-Werke.

The camera is in very good condition and beautiful crafted. But it didn't come with any film holders.
So I'm unsure what type of film holder will fit in the rear standard.
I measured the outline on the ground glass to be 12 x 16,5 cm. ( 4¾" x 6½" )


If you have any hint on how to determine what kind of film holder to use, it will be much appreciated.
I've included some images of the camera and the rear standard with some measurements.

Let me know if more is needed.

[notorius]

Those measurements match half plate size, you can find more here: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?86938-Half-plate-exact-size
Holders can be tricky to find, there are many types across the same film size, you have to find exact match. You can work it out with making your own back though.
Half plate film sheets are available by Foma, I do not know if other producers still has it in their portfolio. Maybe Ilford in their special program. Other solution is to cut film from bigger size (5x7).

[determadshansen]

Thanks, half plate will be a convenient term to know. :)
From the post you link to, it looks like there's an American and European half plate standard.

I was worried that there would be a lot of diffrent film holder standards. So I might be looking into making my own.

I'll have a look at the Foma sheets to. :)

Thanks for all your help.

[B.S.Kumar]

I don't think there are any "standards" for the outer dimensions of these bookform plate holders. Most take the same size plates and film in appropriate sheaths, of course. I have many Japanese half and whole plate bookform holders. Some will fit a Rittreck, some a Tachihara, some an Okuhara and some won't fit any camera I have!

Kumar

[Steven Tribe]

This is definitely a 13x18cm rejsekamera. Great numbers were made from around 1890 up to WW1.This example was made in Germany and would have been a better than average product!
Marking the ground glass screen is very common and the usual next size down is often 9x12cm - although 1/2 plate does exist! Adapters were available to place inside the double plate holders and also metal sheaths to hold “modern” negative film were employed.

The are slight differences in the dimensions and mounting systems of the various makes but usual it is possible to “get them to fit” with a little planing and sandpaper.

This is the the first time I have ever heard of someone finding anything of interest (early photographywise) in a Danish antique/charity shop!!

FOMA (Berlin internet shops) has 13x18cm as a standard offering.

[Steven Tribe]

This is one version of plate holders for a 13x18 camera. Cameras were usually sold with sets of 3 holders. The earlier version looked similar, but had two halves which opened up to load/unload plates or films in metal sheaths.

[determadshansen]

I don't think there are any "standards" for the outer dimensions of these bookform plate holders. Most take the same size plates and film in appropriate sheaths, of course. I have many Japanese half and whole plate bookform holders. Some will fit a Rittreck, some a Tachihara, some an Okuhara and some won't fit any camera I have!

Kumar

Thanks for your feedback. I was worried that there wouldn't be any standards. So my best bet might be to make/fit my own holders.

[Steven Tribe]

........... So my best bet might be to make/fit my own holders.

please read my earlier post again!
Plate holders for 13x18cm cameras are frequent items on ebay.de. Making these holders from scratch would be very, very difficult.

[determadshansen]

This is definitely a 13x18cm rejsekamera. Great numbers were made from around 1890 up to WW1.This example was made in Germany and would have been a better than average product!
Marking the ground glass screen is very common and the usual next size down is often 9x12cm - although 1/2 plate does exist! Adapters were available to place inside the double plate holders and also metal sheaths to hold “modern” negative film were employed.

The are slight differences in the dimensions and mounting systems of the various makes but usual it is possible to “get them to fit” with a little planing and sandpaper.

This is the the first time I have ever heard of someone finding anything of interest (early photographywise) in a Danish antique/charity shop!!

FOMA (Berlin internet shops) has 13x18cm as a standard offering.


Thanks Steve, I had a feeling it might German. The wood and detail is very beautiful, so I thought it might be a "Higher end" model.
But it just feels weird that a more expensive camera wouldn't have some kind af logo or manufacturer name on it.

You are also right in the other aspect. There are two other markings on the ground glass that indicates 9x12cm and 9x14cm, along with the 12x16,5cm outer marker.


So is it a 13x18cm film size and not a half plate ( 12x16,5cm ) size?
If so, what indicates this size?
( If I remember correctly the size of the ground glass, corner to corner, is about 13x18cm. But I have to measure it when I get home to be sure. )


As you say, it might be easier to find a smaller film holder and make an adapter that fits the housing.
I would feel bad if I started grinding away at the rear standard.



In regards to the shop.
I think it was a bit of a coincidence that they had it. The shop owners get most of their stuff by helping clearing out homes of recently deceased people. ( In danish; De tømmer dødsbo. )
And they got a lot of stuff from the home of a former studio photographer.
The shop is called "Butik Pulvis" located at Vesterbro 13, 5000 Odense, Denmark.
– I just went in to borrow some tools and I saw the camera standing on a table next to the counter. :o

BTW Steve - Do you know of any Large Formats clubs or gatherings happening in Denmark?

[determadshansen]

please read my earlier post again!
Plate holders for 13x18cm cameras are frequent items on ebay.de. Making these holders from scratch would be very, very difficult.

Yes, fitting one might be easier. :)
I have a look at ebay.de for a 13x18cm, thanks.

[Steven Tribe]

Danmark is, like most other countries, completely devoid of an active large format and film based active community. There are onLy two or three active here - although Emil from Jutland is a real pillar of strength!

You will note that there are quite a few 13x18cm cameras listed - often missing their plate/film holders. So this puts a premium on loose holder auctions. The important measure is the width of these. It is easier to remove a mm of mahogany/walnut from the sides of holders rather than add a few very thin strips. Length is not usually problem although it may influence the holder locking system (central in your camera). Remember that hardwood dust is extremely carcinogenic!

[determadshansen]

Danmark is, like most other countries, completely devoid of an active large format and film based active community. There are onLy two or three active here - although Emil from Jutland is a real pillar of strength!

You will note that there are quite a few 13x18cm cameras listed - often missing their plate/film holders. So this puts a premium on loose holder auctions. The important measure is the width of these. It is easier to remove a mm of mahogany/walnut from the sides of holders rather than add a few very thin strips. Length is not usually problem although it may influence the holder locking system (central in your camera). Remember that hardwood dust is extremely carcinogenic!


( Sorry about the late reply. I hadn't realized that there was a second page. )

I've seen a good selection of wooden film holder, which includes measurements on the photos.
I'll try with a couple of those to get me startet.
They are listed at the german ebay for about 30 to 40 euro. ( not including shipping. )

I'll keep in mind to get some holders that a bit to large, rather than to small.
I'll also keep away from the metal ones. I guess they'll be even harder to fit. :-)


The thing I'm most nervous about, is getting the same distance to the film, as there is to the ground glass.
I don't suspect that there is room for much error before it starts to blur?


To bad about the lack of community, both in Denmark and other places. It's usually easier to learn something when you're face to face with people.
The forum will have to do for now. And I'll keep and eye out for Emil. :-)