FUJI FUJINON L 420mm F8 Question.

[Rscaboy]

Hello folks,

I have a question regarding this lens --> FUJI FUJINON L 420mm F8

I don't find a lot of info regarding this lens on internet....

I'm shooting mainly "Portrait" and have only one lens the APO Symmar 300 for my Shen-Hao 8x10.

So I would like to know if this lens is covering the 8x10 (I suppose yes) and if this lens would be better suited for portraiture than my APO Symmar 300 ?

What do you think ?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Dom from Belgium

[Peter De Smidt]

Yes, it'll cover 8x10. It's a high quality, single-coated Tessar. It's an excellent lens for 8x10 portraits.

[Drew Wiley]

It's a thick element tessar which held high repute with portrait photographers. I'd love to have one myself. But it will be heavy, so I hope your 8x10 has a very stiff front standard.

[Steve Goldstein]

...But it will be heavy, so I hope your 8x10 has a very stiff front standard.

I had the opportunity to weigh one a while back - 975 grams including the caps and retaining ring.

[Peter De Smidt]

I owned one for about 15 years. It worked just fine on all of my cameras.

[orgraph]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49388818002_91ea5d228e_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ifjAUS)2020-01-14 Zhitomyr region of Ukraine, 8х10 Sh HC 31 7-30 min008-01web (https://flic.kr/p/2ifjAUS) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr
2020-01-12. Zhitomyr region. Wista 8x10, Fujinon L 420/8, Shanghai 100 in HC 1+31

With this lens you can only do a chest portrait, there is no way to get close to the model. For a large portrait I use Fujinon L 300 f 5.6
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46998316214_12c8d6d916_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eB5E1N)Portrait 8х10 (https://flic.kr/p/2eB5E1N) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr
Wista 8x10, Fujinon 300/5.6@11, Shanghai 100 in DDX 1+9 12 min

[Rscaboy]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49388818002_91ea5d228e_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ifjAUS)2020-01-14 Zhitomyr region of Ukraine, 8х10 Sh HC 31 7-30 min008-01web (https://flic.kr/p/2ifjAUS) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr
2020-01-12. Zhitomyr region. Wista 8x10, Fujinon L 420/8, Shanghai 100 in HC 1+31


With this lens you can only do a chest portrait, there is no way to get close to the model. For a large portrait I use Fujinon L 300 f 5.6
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46998316214_12c8d6d916_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eB5E1N)Portrait 8х10 (https://flic.kr/p/2eB5E1N) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr
Wista 8x10, Fujinon 300/5.6@11, Shanghai 100 in DDX 1+9 12 min

Hi,

Well the portrait that you show is a Chest Portrait no ?

[Rscaboy]

Hello Peter,

Thanks for the feed-back do you have some exemple of Portrait took with this lens ?

Dom

[Rscaboy]

I owned one for about 15 years. It worked just fine on all of my cameras.

Hello Peter,

Thanks for the feed-back do you have some exemple of Portrait took with this lens ?

Dom

[Peter De Smidt]

Alas, no. When I had it, I mainly did landscapes with 4x5. I sold it because I needed the money...and then I got more into 8x10 and regretted the sale. Anyway, here's an 8x10 shot with the 420L:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cz15ukbaamqguz/Hyde%27s%20Mill%201200.jpg?raw=1

[Rscaboy]

Alas, no. When I had it, I mainly did landscapes with 4x5. I sold it because I needed the money...and then I got more into 8x10 and regretted the sale. Anyway, here's an 8x10 shot with the 420L:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cz15ukbaamqguz/Hyde%27s%20Mill%201200.jpg?raw=1

Thanks for the answer.

But for you this lens would be good for Portrait too ?

[Peter De Smidt]

Yes. First off, it's a good focal length. Much longer lenses become more difficult to use, with huge bellows draw, and they have less depth of field for the most similar composition. For head and shoulders portraits, 400-500mm are good focal lengths for 8x10. The out-of-focus rendition, and the transition from in to out of focus, is smooth. Fujinon lenses are very high quality with few manufacturing defects, and the shutters are modern and reliable. I recently bought a 159 WA Raptar and discovered how much trouble old shutters can be.

[orgraph]

Yes it is. Using 420 of Fujinon I cannot do like it.

[Rscaboy]

Hi,

I don’t understand why you cannot do it with the 420 as it is well suited for this type of portraits ?

Can you post then a portrait realize with the Fuji 420 in order for me to understand what you mean ?

[orgraph]

The camera and lens do not allow to fit closer to the model closer than 2 meters

[orgraph]

I can’t take a close-up portrait

[Peter De Smidt]

What camera?

[orgraph]

Wista 8x10

[Peter De Smidt]

Well, you need enough bellows draw to get the composition you want. If you can't get close enough with a 420, then you won't be able to do so with any non-telephoto lens of similar or greater focal length. So, you can add extension to your camera, either with a lens board or back extension, crop, use a smaller camera back, e.g. 5x7, use a shorter focal length lens, add a closeup lens onto the original lens, use a telephoto lens, or get a camera with more extension.

[Bernice Loui]

Think the standard Wista 8x10 has 500mm of bellows???

Significant limitation here. Other question, will the Wista 8x10 properly support and be stable with a big lens like this Fujinon 420mm L ?
Adding extensions might not do as there might not be enough bellows. Adding a extension lens board has length and other limitations including how the added extension could affect using camera movements and putting the lens weight forward will add more stress to the front standard and reduce camera stability and overall stability.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

I'd be worried about vibrations with a Wista configured in that manner.

[Louis Pacilla]

I'd be worried about vibrations with a Wista configured in that manner.

Yuriy is not worried about this and is not the OP but was simply sharing w/ the OP the images he made w/ this lens. He has a double ext Wista 8x10 and was also trying to express to the OP (& Peter) he did not have enough bellows for head/head & shoulders with this 420mm FL & his 8x10 so instead makes use of his 300 Symmar S for H&S shots with this camera.

[Bernice Loui]

Using a 300mm focal length on 8x10 for head/shoulder image has a different look than a 8x10 image produced with a 420mm lens.


Bernice

[Rscaboy]

Hi,

Well I’m a bit confuse now...My Shen-Hao TFC-810 can hold (theoraticaly) lens up to 450mm but in practical Shen-Hao tell me that in practice I shouldn’t use lens longer than 420mm...

And now I see that a Wista with 500mm extension is not able to make « Head and Shoulders » shoot...??

So shall I forget this lens for my Shen-Hao ?

[Bob Salomon]

Hi,

Well I’m a bit confuse now...My Shen-Hao TFC-810 can hold (theoraticaly) lens up to 450mm but in practical Shen-Hao tell me that in practice I shouldn’t use lens longer than 420mm...

And now I see that a Wista with 500mm extension is not able to make « Head and Shoulders » shoot...??

So shall I forget this lens for my Shen-Hao ?

Longer bellows and beds are accessories for Wista cameras.

Sorry, not for the 810.

[Peter De Smidt]

Hi,

Well I’m a bit confuse now...My Shen-Hao TFC-810 can hold (theoraticaly) lens up to 450mm but in practical Shen-Hao tell me that in practice I shouldn’t use lens longer than 420mm...

And now I see that a Wista with 500mm extension is not able to make « Head and Shoulders » shoot...??

So shall I forget this lens for my Shen-Hao ?

You're confusing bellows extension with usable lenses. Your camera has a maximum bellows extension of 450mm. That means a lens of 450mm will only be able to focus on infinity. It won't focus closer without adding something like a closeup lens or more extension. A 420mm lens (by itself) will not be able to do a head and portrait picture on 8x10 with only 450mm of extension. The focal length of a lens is close to bellows draw when the camera is focused at infinity. Focusing closer requires more extension. When you get to a 1 to 1 film size to subject size, known as 1x magnification, then you need twice the bellows draw of the lens focused at infinity.

[Rscaboy]

You're confusing bellows extension with usable lenses. Your camera has a maximum bellows extension of 450mm. That means a lens of 450mm will only be able to focus on infinity. It won't focus closer without adding something like a closeup lens or more extension. A 420mm lens (by itself) will not be able to do a head and portrait picture on 8x10 with only 450mm of extension. The focal length of a lens is close to bellows draw when the camera is focused at infinity. Focusing closer requires more extension. When you get to a 1 to 1 film size to subject size, known as 1x magnification, then you need twice the bellows draw of the lens focused at infinity.

Hello Peter,

Thanks for this explanation so which type of Portrait would it be possible with my camera and this lens then ?

And does this lens would it be suitable for any portrait type with the type of camera that i have (Shen-Hao TFC-810A) ?

If I can't use this lens for portrait then which Type of lens should I use for closer portrait with my camera then ?

Dom

[Oren Grad]

I'm shooting mainly "Portrait" and have only one lens the APO Symmar 300 for my Shen-Hao 8x10.

Why not use your 300mm Apo-Symmar? Why do you want to change to another lens?

[Drew Wiley]

Oren, even though I have a number of lenses in this general focal length range, I still covet one of the Fuji L's, either the 300 or the 420 (preferable to me for its bigger image circle and tighter perspective on 8x10). Why - exactly the same reasons already posted. These have a pleasing transitional rendition while retaining sharpness, yielding less annoying background blur than typical hard-sharp modern plasmats, and for this reason, also coveted for portraiture. I do have a Zeiss 360/9 thick tessar with the same kind of rendering, but it's in barrel, so I can only use it for long exposures via lenscap exposure timing. The going price of a Copal 3S shutter is just as much as for a Fuji L with the shutter already on it ... so there you have it. Plus I'd still have to pay for the conversion. On well, we all have our dream lists. But some of these classic tessars really do provide a different look than the hard clinical rendering of more common options. Most people seem to have in mind fast 4.5 tessars for portraiture etc, but the slower versions are also excellent to choose from, and better corrected overall. Mine is apo-corrected.

[Oren Grad]

Drew, I have my own preferences when I'm in the mood to carry on about subtleties of rendering.

It would still be useful to know whether and why the OP is unhappy with his Apo-Symmar. Why is he looking for another lens? What might be the best solution to his problem depends on whether he indeed has a problem and, if so, exactly what it is.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I can't read someone else's mind, Oren. Until someone has been on the road awhile and knows what they like or not, I suspect there's a lot of "what if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence?" mentality going on. I happily worked for over a decade owning only a single LF lens before branching out, so was opposite in that respect.

[Oren Grad]

Well, I can't read someone else's mind, Oren.

Me neither. So let's give him a chance to tell us.

[Drew Wiley]

Sometimes that means spelling out in advance what they might not themselves be aware of until a range of options is spelled out; but then it's inevitable that everyone lists their own favorite this and that. Count me guilty too.

[Rscaboy]

Hello,

Ok many thanks for your all the information that you gave me regarding this lens...

So I decided to keep my APO Symmar and not taking this lens as it won't be usable for the kind of portrait that I want to take for my project...

I already took some nice ""Head an Shoulderd" portrait with my 300 but was thinking that with an longer lens it would have been more easy as my below was almost extented at their maximum with the 300 but in fact this was the reverse (thanks to Peter for the explanation) for H&S Portrait I would need a below extension of 800mm which I don't have with my camera (max is 450mm) So for such works I would use a 240mm....But can we make Portrait on an 8x10 with a 240mm...I have some doubt on the final result...

[blue4130]

Hello,

....But can we make Portrait on an 8x10 with a 240mm...I have some doubt on the final result...

Technically you can, but you will be getting into funky sized ears and noses if you are going for a tight portrait. You could try to get a tophat lensboard for your 300. That could give you some extra length.

[Rscaboy]

199528

Here is the type of portrait that I do with my APO Symmar 300

[orgraph]

Just example (not portrait) Fujinon 420/8
https://live.staticflickr.com/832/41948659121_1df6e57f41_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26URQTt)2018-05-06 Ukraine Sh in DDX 1+9 10 min002-002web (https://flic.kr/p/26URQTt) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/956/40039760570_3c0dc9e889_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/241beRu)2018-04-30 Черниговская Foma in DDX 1+4 8 min003-01web (https://flic.kr/p/241beRu) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/961/40039759460_8e2df64ae5_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/241bewm)2018-04-30 Черниговская Foma in DDX 1+4 8 min002-02web (https://flic.kr/p/241bewm) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr

[orgraph]

I just took measurements:

Wista 8x10

Fujinon L 420/8
Minimum shooting distance - 135 cm
Approximate image field 48x60 cm

Fujinon L 300 / 5.6
The minimum shooting distance is 85 cm
Approximate image field 24x30 cm

Nikkor-T ED 600/9
The minimum shooting distance is 300 cm
Approximate image field 80x100 cm

Color-Tamron 240/6.8
The minimum shooting distance is 37 cm
Approximate image field 16x20 cm

[Havoc]

Love the shots Orgraph! Can't make up my mind which one most.

[Leszek Vogt]

Yuriy, despite flooded areas, I like your nature portraits.

Les

[cuypers1807]

I have a Fujinon 420 f/8 but I have only used it on 11x14. Very sharp lens... I didn't like the results I got from it shooting portraits... almost too crispy if that makes sense. I prefer the Nikon 450 f/9 for portraits. My favorite 8x10 portrait lens in the 14 inch Commercial Ektar.

[vorgonyi]

So how much bellows do you need for a head shot. I have a canham where it says 914mm bellows but when I measure it is 80cm. Would that suffice for a head shot with the 420L?

[Louis Pacilla]

. Would that suffice for a head shot with the 420l?

yes!

[Peter De Smidt]

At 1:1 a 420mm lens will need 840mm of extension, and the area photographed will equal the film size, i.e. it would be an 8x10 area of a subject on an 8x10 camera. A normal head and shoulder's portrait has a subject area quite a bit bigger than 8x10. That means that the required extension is less than 840mm. My guess is that 800mm would be enough.

[orgraph]

At 1:1 a 420mm lens will need 840mm of extension, and the area photographed will equal the film size, i.e. it would be an 8x10 area of a subject on an 8x10 camera. A normal head and shoulder's portrait has a subject area quite a bit bigger than 8x10. That means that the required extension is less than 840mm. My guess is that 800mm would be enough.

I found a craftsman who can make me an extension box between the camera itself (fur) and frosted glass. For comfortable shooting, the depth of this box should be about 30 cm.