Lens Filters for 4x5

[Alan Klein]

So I'm starting out with 4x5 with a Schneider APO 150mm Synnar MC on a Chamonix 45N-1 4x5. I need contrast filters for BW and polarizer. I have 77mm B+W screw-on filters from my medium format camera system. Could I use these with a step up adapter? I believe the Schneider takes a 58mm filter. (Where can I verify the size?)

Would I be better off getting a couple of new filters to screw into the Schneider lens without the adapter? How do you deal with lens hoods with Lee vs lens mounted filters on 4x5?

How about Lee filter resin types? Does 4x5 lend itself better to glass mounted on lens filters or to Lee type? Does Lee affect hoods placement?

thanks. Alan.

[Corran]

APO Symmar uses a 58mm. Yes, just get a step-up - I've literally used a 58-67mm on mine permanently. A normal lens has no issues with vignetting from step-ups in general.

The rest is personal choice IMO so no correct answer. I don't use lens hoods personally. I use both Lee GND rectangular filters and screw-in filters, sometimes at the same time.

IMO since you've already been shooting MF just do the same thing you would on MF with 4x5. It's not much different. Camera movements are about the only thing you'll want to familiarize yourself with.

[Two23]

I use the same sized filters that same way, or simply hold one against the lens with my hand. My filters are in, order used: orange, red, polarizer, green, and a set of ND. Thinking of getting a yellow. Keep in mind I pretty much only shoot b&w, or plates.


Kent in SD

[Alan Klein]

Do people shooting large format general not use hoods? Or something else?

[darr]

I always use a hood outside for two reasons: (1) helps improve contrast in some situations, and (2) for protection. There have been more than a few times my lens hoods got bumped by something instead of the lens. I buy cheap hoods that are easily replaced. I also use a 4x5 darkslide with an Ebony clamp on a cold shoe. See: http://www.badgergraphic.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1613

Regarding filters: I had used the larger Lee filters inside their hood for many years (still have them), but made the switch to their Seven5 line last year. The largest lens adapter ring in the Seven5 system is 72mm, and this works out well for all of my 4x5 lenses, all my ALPA medium format lenses which are Schneiders, and all my Fuji APS-C lenses. I put an adapter on each lens before I go out to shoot, and use the Seven5 lens caps instead of the normal lens caps. It is a smaller system and very versatile. I stopped using screw-on filters years ago although I have a drawer full of them.

Alan you seem to be asking a lot of good questions regarding gear. Before you go out and buy what everyone recommends, take your time and look at the work of those that recommend gear. If you find a photographer's work you admire, ask them what gear they use. If it worked for them, it will work for you.

Kind regards,
Darr

[dfort]

I’m just getting back into large format after a very long absence. I never used a lens hood—too much chance of vignetting when using camera swings and tilts. Best way to shade the lens is with the dark slide from the film holder.

As far as filtering, I used Kodak gel filters taped to the back of the lens. That’s INSIDE the camera. That way the filter isn’t going to blow away. You don’t need to worry too much about focus shift with thin gel (actually polyester) filters.

This may seem very low tech but it was what most photographers I knew were doing back in the 70s and 80’s.


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[Bernice Loui]

Behind the lens filter can help reduce possible flare and lower contrast due to the filter in front of the lens. During the 70's and 80's filters were generally not anti-reflection coated and placing them behind the lens helped.

This is why there is a gel or square filter clip in the back of a Sinar shutter.

The cinema folks use a matt box with a covered filter slot. The matt box in front of the lens went a long ways to control stray light and filter-lens flare. This is important for the cinema folks as they often use more than one filter for a given take.

Placing the needed filter behind the lens inside the camera is often more difficult with a field camera due to how this can be done.

Some lenses have a threaded filter mount in the rear, this helps a good deal to allow using a filter behind the lens.

There is zero wrong with taping a gel filter at the back of the lens. It works.


Bernice





As far as filtering, I used Kodak gel filters taped to the back of the lens. That’s INSIDE the camera. That way the filter isn’t going to blow away. You don’t need to worry too much about focus shift with thin gel (actually polyester) filters.

This may seem very low tech but it was what most photographers I knew were doing back in the 70s and 80’s.

[LabRat]

I'll step out of the pack and suggest that for many, filters can do more harm than good in a shooting scene...

Most B/W filters increase contrast on the neg due to the color of the light passing through... Light the same color as the filter passes through with very little cut, but complementary colors receive full cut, increasing contrast... But your film can see the range of spectral sensitivity possibly with too much cut to balance on your film and printing paper range, where you would have to choose if you prefer sky and highlight detail, or shadow detail, but difficult to balance both... For instance, in a sunny distant forest scene, the sky might be bright, but the tree leaves (green) would be darkened quite a bit by a red or orange, and the shade under the trees (blue light, lit by the blue sky filtering in and lower light level) could exceed the range of the film & paper...

Yes, filters can effect overall tone, but there's other ways also... The best way is through precise exposure... So if a sky was exposed well, there would be good tone with clouds well defined, and if there was a healthy amount of exposure in shadows, they would render well... More than filters, a spot meter can tell you what those ranges could be, and some effect can be added with a little over/underexposed within a range you can still print...

There are filters that can be useful AT TIMES, but you have to know where and when, and this even changes on different days, weather etc...

I suggest possibly a yellow (for very low contrast shade and overcast conditions, even cloud shots), green (lightens trees, seas, can open shadow detail in some scenes, and can also open detail in bright highlights sometimes), pola screen ( but it's filter factor changes as you turn it), and I keep a deep blue in the kit where I would like to turn a sunny or overcast sky blank white for effect... Color is a different animal where filtration is usually used to balance the film to the type or conditions of the light...

Developing also makes a big difference... Many think that filters get rid of a bland/fat/flat look, but that is often the result of overexposure/overdevelopment, but the look changes drastically with balanced exposure/development and experiments with diluted developers can open new ranges of tone (and even some enhanced sharpness effects...)

So in short, save money not buying excessive filters, but get in tune with the rest of the process...

Steve K

[Kiwi7475]

I’m just getting back into large format after a very long absence. I never used a lens hood—too much chance of vignetting when using camera swings and tilts. Best way to shade the lens is with the dark slide from the film holder.

As far as filtering, I used Kodak gel filters taped to the back of the lens. That’s INSIDE the camera. That way the filter isn’t going to blow away. You don’t need to worry too much about focus shift with thin gel (actually polyester) filters.

This may seem very low tech but it was what most photographers I knew were doing back in the 70s and 80’s.


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Darr,

can you point us to the cheap hoods you use?

Thank you!

[Doremus Scudder]

Alan,

I really think you should just get the step-up adapter and use the filters you already have until you acquire another lens or two.

After your 150mm, you'll likely want both longer and shorter lenses, say a 90mm and something in the 240-300mm range. These will likely not take the same size filters as your 150mm lens. You may then wish to get a set of filters for the largest lens and step up rings for the others so that you can use the same filters on all three. Don't buy now so you can get the right size later.

For field work, good-quality, coated glass screw-in filters (e.g., B+H, Heliopan or Hoya HMC filters) are really the only logical choice IM-HO. Gels are fragile, easy to damage in windy conditions (they flap around a lot) or when it's damp (using them in a mist or rain or even fog will almost certainly ruin them). Installing a gel filter behind the lens in the field requires removing either the lens or the camera back and doing a bit of a balancing act attaching the filter since there's usually nothing to set things down on. The risk of dropping the lens or the camera back and damaging something is pretty high. In the studio, there's less of a risk.

I find Lee, Cokin and similar filter systems similarly cumbersome. The only real advantage is for those that use graduated ND filters (which I generally hate, except for shooting color transparency film).

About lens hoods: ideally, we would use a compendium bellows on every shot. These are adjustable in length and can be set to the optimum position to block extra light with any focal length or movements. Using fixed-size lens hoods for LF usually just results in not much shading (for longer lenses) or vignetting (when used on a too-short lens or if you've applied movements). In the field, I have a tendency to shade the lens when needed (and possible) with my hand, a hat, or the darkslide. When I really need to use both hands for something else and shade the lens, I've got a spring-clip set of barn-doors (a now-discontinued Voss filter holder) that does the job. In all honesty, however, a good 75% of my field work is done without a lens hood or any kind of shading. Good multi-coated lenses reduce flare surprisingly well.

FWIW, I'll describe my field filter kits: The largest filter-size I need is 67mm (for my Nikkor 90mm f/8, Fujinon 75mm f/5.6 and Nikkor M 450mm). The rest of my lenses are all smaller and lighter-weight and, though have various filter sizes, are all fitted with dedicated adapter rings to get them to 52mm.

I have two sets of filters, one 67mm, one 52mm, in filter wallets; six pockets each. I carry a #8 Yellow, a #15 orange, a #11 green, a #25 red, a polarizer and a #80B blue filter in each wallet. I'll double up a few filters sometimes in the wallet pockets and add a ND filter (usually a 9-stop one) and a #44 gel mounted in a filter ring.

When I take a kit into the field that includes one of the larger lenses that needs 67mm filters, I'll grab the larger kit. It has a 52mm-67mm step-up ring screwed on to one of the filters so I can use the 67mm filters with any lens in my kit. When I don't need the larger filters, I'll grab the smaller set to keep weight down.

I have a bunch of lenses: in addition to the three mentioned above, I've got WF Ektars in 100mm and 135mm lengths, a 135mm Plasmat, a 150mm Plasmat, a 210mm Fuji L tessar, Fujinon A 180mm and 240mm lenses, and a Nikkor M 300mm, all of which I use regularly. All these are adapted to take 52mm filters.

Hope this helps you find a good strategy for your own filters.

Doremus

[eli]

In studio use, stands with 'black cards/foam board are often used with a small boom or adjustable arm, to shield against excess light entering the non-hooded lens, some times more than one and at times, simply clamped to the stand.

Good photographers are, as a type, IME, apt to grab hold of anything to make a shot 'work' and good photographers can be very much the "MacGyver, or at least use an assistant whom is so.

Unless the job and clients/subject of a photo-shoot has a very high nose, and the studio/art director/company wants the shoot to be an 'event', which does happen, and everything has to be 'just right' and shiny from a store, you'll never know when you will run up against when a shoot is going on, and yes, a good Swiss Army Knife (SWK) and multi-tool is always a must, even in the smallest outing for a photo-shoot.

So is thick cotton string or linen cord, baby pins, bank clips, corn starch and brush, tacks, Spring clamps in every size and so many other 'non-photographic' items, that you'll need endlessly

IMO.

[eli]

Yes, step-up adapters are the best way to handle having a non-vignetting system, esp for large format, and if you can get away with it when lens hood are employed.

I would suggest a bellows lens hood for LF, having had occasion to use some, but the movements must be tight or you've just added a new dimension of head ache to whatever you are trying to photograph.

The thing is, I know many of use have many filters in many sizes already, in each format we shoot, and are loath to spend more money on larger filters at some point, instead wanting to spend our funds on film, papers, new kit.

I need some ND Filters, including an adjustable one and a good polarizer, and was looking at the testing of both, in larger than I would normally want, simply because I want to make the change to more adapter rings/anti-vignetting set-up, but U.S. $200 - $300 dollars is simply beyond the Pale of what I do, so I'll likely 'settle' for something else or none.

That said, a light yellow-green is a must, if you are ever going to do B&W portraits of women and a medium Green brings out the 'ruggedness' of a close-up of a male subject.

IMO.

[Peter Lewin]

Alan, I second everything Doremus said. Just get the step up ring and use the filters you already own. The best way to acquire LF accessories is to wait until you have enough experience to know what you need and will use, rather than try to buy everything beforehand. Ultimately you should probably do what Doremus has done, which is also what I have done: wait until you have more of a complete lens set (again, built up over time as you learn what you actually need for the images you want to make), then get screw on filters for the largest lens, and use step up rings for the smaller.

Also, like Doremus, I don’t carry a compendium shade, I just shield the lens from flare using the dark slide I pull from the holder. If you try to carry every accessory you might use, and the “perfect” tripod and head, you will need a wheeled wagon to carry it all. Around 30 years ago, when my daughters were very young, we would read them a lovely book titled “Simple Pictures Are Best” and that philosophy can be applied to both our images and our equipment.

[Alan Klein]

I'll have to deal with filters later. The camera is on the Fedex truck on its way to my house. 5 days from China. Check. The lens that I already received from Japan took about 3 days. Check. Film, some. Check. Shutter release, check. Tripod and head? Check. Flowers for wife? Oops. :)

[darr]

Darr,

can you point us to the cheap hoods you use?

Thank you!

Like this: https://smile.amazon.com/Fotasy-Nikkor-Olympus-Panasonic-Pentax/dp/B0031CS83U/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=52mm+lens+hood&qid=1578788278&sr=8-1

I also have a few rubber hoods that fold down when packed. I like metal for protection and rubber for less weight.

[Joe O'Hara]

Alan: You still have time to get the flowers. Don't forget! (She won't.)

Personally I use a Lee (rectangular) hood on every single photograph I make. It is expensive and clumsy but I have never
had a problem with vignetting. Truthfully, it is obvious on the ground glass (you can wiggle the hood a little to be sure) when
it happens. I find I only have to pay special attention if I'm using a lot of front rise.

Flare from the large image circle is probably a bigger issue with say 210 or 150mm lenses, less so with telephotos and extreme
wide angles that don't cover the image area so generously. Not to gainsay what Doremus said, multicoating is your friend, but
not necessarily your rescuer.

The late Michael A. Smith was quite adamant about always using lens hoods. I took his advice to heart and have not regretted
it.

On the other hand if you're just starting out in LF it's definitely a second-order issue, until you get all the other moving parts
under control.

[Kiwi7475]

Alan: You still have time to get the flowers. Don't forget! (She won't.)

Personally I use a Lee (rectangular) hood on every single photograph I make. It is expensive and clumsy but I have never
had a problem with vignetting. Truthfully, it is obvious on the ground glass (you can wiggle the hood a little to be sure) when
it happens. I find I only have to pay special attention if I'm using a lot of front rise.

Flare from the large image circle is probably a bigger issue with say 210 or 150mm lenses, less so with telephotos and extreme
wide angles that don't cover the image area so generously. Not to gainsay what Doremus said, multicoating is your friend, but
not necessarily your rescuer.

The late Michael A. Smith was quite adamant about always using lens hoods. I took his advice to heart and have not regretted
it.

On the other hand if you're just starting out in LF it's definitely a second-order issue, until you get all the other moving parts
under control.

The Lee hood is great.... it’s just that it is outrageously expensive IMO.....

[Joe O'Hara]

Indeed it is expensive. I had the old square one and used it for years until it fell apart. When I asked for a replacement,
they basically told me too bad, buy a new one. Nice!

For what they charge, they could and should do better, but probably think they don't have to. (Hint: A modest discount
would go a ways to keeping your customer happy and bringing you more customers in the future.)

So I sucked it up and bought the new rectangular one. I hope that by the time I wear it out there will be a few used
ones on the market. I wouldn't have given them the business if it weren't such an essential tool for me.

[Alan Klein]

Joe, I'll get the flowers tomorrow. Today we all went out to celebrate my wife's mother's 97th birthday. God bless her. Nice lady.

Can you use a hood with Lee filters?

PS you;re about an hour south of me. I've driven through a couple of roads in the Pine Barrens briefly. No photography though. I like your work of them and your other photos. Very nice.

[Bob Salomon]

Joe, I'll get the flowers tomorrow. Today we all went out to celebrate my wife's mother's 97th birthday. God bless her. Nice lady.

Can you use a hood with Lee filters?

PS you;re about an hour south of me. I've driven through a couple of roads in the Pine Barrens briefly. No photography though. I like your work of them and your other photos. Very nice.

Lens hoods can’t really work on a view camera as they will rarely be the proper length to be effective with most focal lengths and will easily vignette with many movements.
The compendium is the only way to go. Especially ones that are designed to adjust with front movements and can be masked to compensate for focal length of the lens.

The best compendiums will be able to adjust to match the lens to film distance and have a front opening the size of the film or masks to adjust to the size. These compendiums, properly adjusted, block all extraneous light.

[drew.saunders]

Can you use a hood with Lee filters?



Lee hoods have filter slots. I have the wide angle hood with two slots, and a Lee adapter for all my regularly used lenses. My infrequently used lenses are all the same filter diameter as a lens for which I already have a Lee adapter, or a copy. I recently bought an adapter from “FilterDude” on eBay that’s as good as a Lee original. I find the wide angle hood works for my 300mm lens on 4x5, so I see no need for the regular hood.

I just tried to look up the wide angle hood and it’s listed as discontinued by B&H! Here’s the link which shows how it works: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/146769-REG/LEE_Filters_WALH2S_Lens_Hood_Wide.html

I’ve been using the Lee hood and filters for years and it works well.


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[drew.saunders]

It looks like the Lee hoods with built-in filter slots have been replaced by the Lee100 hood that attaches to a filter holder, and then the holder attaches to the adapter. I like my older one better, I just attach the hood to the adapter and I’m done!

https://www.leefilters.com/


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[neil poulsen]

Do people shooting large format general not use hoods? Or something else?

I think this is the case. I assisted a friend of mine for several years, who is a local, well known architectural photographer. During his film years, he photographed with 4x5 using a Sinar F1, and I never once saw him use a hood. The time that it would have taken to set up was far too valuable.

I've tended to adopt his approach. He would regularly shade the front of the lens to make sure that direct light would never fall on the face of a lens, or the filter that he would use. There's a Sinar clip that can hold black cards and position them in various orientations, depending on the position of the sun.

He used a bag bellows for almost all his exposures, and I think that this can help channel stray light into internal bellows nether lands. One thing that I like about my 171mm Arca camera (regardless of vintage), is that there's extra space around the 4x5 format, so that stray light is less likely to fall on the negative. Arca has since reduced their camera size to using 141mm lensboards, and because of the flare implications, it's unlikely that I would upgrade to the smaller size. (Not that I could afford it.)

I've seen references tha Fred Picker also used this approach.

None the less, my camera has the 6x9 front, which has a conveniently small compendium lens shade. I carry this lense shade with me, should the need arise.

I see 8x10 as being different, and I'm very likely to use a Lee, flexible compendium lens hood for this camera. For 8x10 or otherwise, I've replaced all (save one) my large lenses with smaller maximum aperture versions. This makes using a lenshood more convenient. It also makes for a lighter kit.

Based on input from John Sexton in a workshop that I attended, I'm more likely to use MC glass filters. I've standardized on 77mm filters and carry step-up rings to that diameter for all my lenses.

The one exception is my 610mm Repro Claron, which has an 82mm filter thread. With this lens on 8x10, I don't mind using 4" gel filters in my Lee compendium lenshood.

[neil poulsen]

Do people shooting large format general not use hoods? Or something else?

I think this is the case. I assisted a friend of mine for several years, who is a local, well known architectural photographer. During his film years, he photographed with 4x5 using a Sinar F1, and I never once saw him use a hood. The time that it would have taken to set up was far too valuable.

I think that I've tended to adapt his approach. Rather, he would use the dark slide and shade the front of the lens to make sure that direct light would never fall on the face of a lens, or the filter that he would use. There's a Sinar clip that can hold black cards and position them in various orientations, depending on the position of the sun.

He used a bag bellows for almost all his exposures, and I think that this can help channel stray light into the internal bellows nether lands. One thing that I like about my 171mm Arca camera (regardless of vintage), is that there's extra space around the 4x5 format, so that stray light is less likely to fall on the negative. Arca has since reduced their camera size to using 141mm lensboards, and because of the flare implications, it's unlikely that I would upgrade to the smaller size. (Not that I could afford it.)

None the less, my camera has the 6x9 front, which has a conveniently small compendium lens shade. I carry this lensshade with me, should the need arise.

I think that 8x10 is different, and I'm very likely to use a Lee, flexible compendium lens hood for this camera. For 8x10 or otherwise, I've replaced all (save one) my large lenses with smaller maximum aperture versions. This makes using a lenshood more convenient.

Based on input from John Sexton in a workshop that I attended, I'm more likely to use glass filters. I've standardized on 77mm filters and carry step-up rings to that diameter for all my lenses.

The one exception is my 610mm Repro Claron, which has an 82mm filter thread. With this lens on 8x10, I don't mind using 4" gel filters in my Lee compendium lenshood. This hood also works with glass filters.

[tgtaylor]

Ever since getting into LF I've used a Cokin Z-Pro filter holder with resin and now glass 100mm filters. The best advise with this system would be to start with a 95mm filter holder adapter ring and use step-down rings to fit your various lens. With the 95mm filter holder adapter I can use filters on the 610 and 760mm apo-Nikkors, and the 300mm Nikkor - all of which have 95mm threads. Trip the shutter while standing alongside of the lens holding the dark slide to cast a shadow across the front element. I carry the holder in a Lee case with all the step-up rings (from 49mm to 82mm) attached for quick access in the field. The Cokin X-Pro filter holder will accommodate lens with larger front element threads but it is enormous.

Thomas

[Alan Klein]

Ever since getting into LF I've used a Cokin Z-Pro filter holder with resin and now glass 100mm filters. The best advise with this system would be to start with a 95mm filter holder adapter ring and use step-down rings to fit your various lens. With the 95mm filter holder adapter I can use filters on the 610 and 760mm apo-Nikkors, and the 300mm Nikkor - all of which have 95mm threads. Trip the shutter while standing alongside of the lens holding the dark slide to cast a shadow across the front element. I carry the holder in a Lee case with all the step-up rings (from 49mm to 82mm) attached for quick access in the field. The Cokin X-Pro filter holder will accommodate lens with larger front element threads but it is enormous.

Thomas

I've ordered a large format Chamonix 45H-1. http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/cameras/45h1 I already have a medium format with 77mm glass MC lenses from B+W that screw in the MF lenses. So I'm thinking of getting a 58mm to 77mm adaptor for the 4x5 lens (Schneider 150mm APO Synnar MC) to attach the glass lenses (yellow, red, orange and polarizer), then use the Cokin just for the grad ND. I have the same Cokin you have that I use with my medium format setup.

Can compendium hoods be used with this set up? Any other recommendations?

[younghoon Kil]

199334


I use Lee Filters' 100mm filter holder, but it's inconvenient to use it in the adapter ring, so I made a L-bracket to attach the 100mm filter holder to the accessory-shoe without the adapter rings. The same goes for Lee Filters' Wide Angle Hood.
Also, I have made three circular filter adapters that can be pushed into the body of a lenses.

With these devices, I can insert square filters and round filters individually.

[younghoon Kil]

199336


I also attach the Wide Angle Hood to the accessory-shoe on the front standard without the adapter ring.
The hood can move back and forth and can rotate left and right.
This makes it easy to insert a circular filter in front of the lens.

[mpirie]

Like darr, i tend to use an Ebony lens shade clip:
199364
Mike

[hiend61]

I never use the same filter size filter for a large format lens, just to avoid vigneting problems. My rule is add a 25% more size to avoid vigneting problems when generous shift is aplied. If lens has 67mm filter size, I use a 86mm filter with a good quality steep up adapter. For my most used filters (polarizing, and 81 series), I use 105mm and 86mm round glass filters from Heliopan and B+W. for the rest I use 100mm square filters from several brands, including Lee, Sinar Hitech..., and when possibleI place them back my Sinar DB Shutter. If I can´t do this, I use a Lee Filter Holder. In both cases, I Shade lens and filter with a Sinar multipurpose standard, with a standard bellows and a Sinar mask 2. This allows me to reach just the limits, of vigneting to avoid the excess of light from great image circle lenses hiting bellows and providing flare and loss of contrast. Before I had The Sinar Mask 2 I used a 5x7" black mate plastic piece with a clip to shade my lenses, but always having a look trough the corners of ground glass to shade just to the limits.