The new Ektachrome E100, Tetenal E6 and Jobo

[pkr1979]

Hi folks,

When I develop Provia 100F with the Tetenal kit using my Jobo CPA2 I use slightly longer developing times then what is stated in the Tetenal instructions. And I suspect Im not the only one doing this.

With Ektachrome now on larger formats... did anyone develop this film themselves? And if so, did you extend the times compared to what is stated in the instructions for better (or worse) results?

Cheers
Peter

[Pali K]

Peter,

This might not be very helpful but I have processed it only in the 35 format so far and everything was processed at recommended temps and times. I have also never extended the time for Provia or Velvia with the same exact combo (CPP2 and Tetenal E6) and have consistently gotten intended results.

I did just get 120 fresh rolls delivered this week and a box of 4x5 should also be arriving soon. I’ll update my experience in this thread once I shoot process those but my goal at the time being is to process at recommended times at 38c (100f) temperature. The only variation I sometimes do is blix for a little longer around 8/9 minutes if mixed chemicals have been used more than 3 times.

Regards,

Pali

[pkr1979]

Hey,

Thanks. I suppose it might mean that I will have to develop Ektachrome the same way I develop my Provia (7:15). If I develop according to the Tetenal instructions the colors are to deep... or contain to much black (Im not sure how to explain it). Searching abit online it seemed like some people meant that Provia needed slightly more time than many other slide films (ie Kodak actually). After extending the time I got the results I expected, and intended :-)

I guess the only way to figure this out though is to try it and see whatever happens.

Im keen to learn what you figure out though.
Thanks again.

Peter

[pkr1979]

I will use the Tetenal instructions for developing Ektachrome, and continue to give Provia and Velvia slightly longer times in the first developer.

[Duolab123]

For some reason there's notes in the old Jobo literature about Fuji films requiring 7'30" vs. 6'30" in 1st developer . These are all empirical in nature. I've had better results overall when sticking to 6'30" especially with fresh developer.
With E6, I auto bracket 1/2 stop when shooting 35mm. But with 120 Provia F I've had excellent results using an incident meter, exposing normally and using the starting 6'30". Doesn't matter if it's a Tetenal kit or full blown Fuji Pro6 chemistry.
But as you have found sometimes you establish your own personal times that work best for your workflow.

[nbagno]

For some reason there's notes in the old Jobo literature about Fuji films requiring 7'30" vs. 6'30" in 1st developer . These are all empirical in nature. I've had better results overall when sticking to 6'30" especially with fresh developer.
With E6, I auto bracket 1/2 stop when shooting 35mm. But with 120 Provia F I've had excellent results using an incident meter, exposing normally and using the starting 6'30". Doesn't matter if it's a Tetenal kit or full blown Fuji Pro6 chemistry.
But as you have found sometimes you establish your own personal times that work best for your workflow.

I’ve seen the additional time outlined in the CPP manual but have yet to test beyond the stated time in the chemical manuals. Of additional interest is Jobo’s new 2020 catalog where they state that there should be a pre-wash. The way it’s worded assumes it’s for all film.


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[DaveF]

In my experience the FD times that people state are entirely dependent on personal practice, esp. in the nature of when you set the timer in relation to when you pour the chemistry in and out. It's also worth saying that even 30" difference is going to be less than 1/3 of a stop (pushing 1 stop in the Tetenal E6 kit instructions is an extra 2' at 38C/100F), so even with e.g. Velvia it's not going to matter as much as some may think. I have successfully developed my own Fujifilm slides using 7'10" FD on the Jobo, timed exactly from when I poured the FD chemistry in to the moment when I started pouring in the first wash. No problems; yet to try Ektachrome.

[Duolab123]

In my experience the FD times that people state are entirely dependent on personal practice, esp. in the nature of when you set the timer in relation to when you pour the chemistry in and out. It's also worth saying that even 30" difference is going to be less than 1/3 of a stop (pushing 1 stop in the Tetenal E6 kit instructions is an extra 2' at 38C/100F), so even with e.g. Velvia it's not going to matter as much as some may think. I have successfully developed my own Fujifilm slides using 7'10" FD on the Jobo, timed exactly from when I poured the FD chemistry in to the moment when I started pouring in the first wash. No problems; yet to try Ektachrome.

I agree with you. Thermometers can be tricky, most lab thermometers require 76mm immersion, best held in a clamp on a ring stand etc. 1/3 rd of a stop can make or break a good slide. MHOFWIW.
Jobo machines are very nice, but still a lot of variables that aren't there in a really well maintained commercial dip and dunk set up.

One thing I do with my Jobos is I use bigger tanks and maximum volume of solution.

If you are in a 68°F darkroom and you are developing 1 roll of 35mm, and you pour 125mL of developer through a room temperature Jobo lift what's that do to the temperature of the solution?

[Duolab123]

I’ve seen the additional time outlined in the CPP manual but have yet to test beyond the stated time in the chemical manuals. Of additional interest is Jobo’s new 2020 catalog where they state that there should be a pre-wash. The way it’s worded assumes it’s for all film.


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The instructions to pre-wash is new to me. I have always used a couple of pre washes going back way before I had a Jobo to insure everything was at desired temperature.

Is this information on Jobo Germany or Jobo USA?

[pkr1979]

As far as I know - Jobo Germany... but I think they also say that if you have been doing it without and that works - keep doing that.
I dont pre wash E6 and Im not starting now.

[nbagno]

This is from Jobo's 2020 calendar "Pre-Wash
In this context it is helpful to remark that JOBO clearly recommends to always pre-wash
your film (and paper) in rotary processing for 2 to 5 minutes. Pre-washing allows the
emulsion to soften up and absorb first water molecules. Keep in mind that, different from
inversion processing, in rotary processing chemistry does not hit the whole film surface
at once. Pre-washing makes sure that chemical is evenly absorbed by the emulsion in
rotary processing of your film (and paper), avoiding unevenness and undulations on the
film surface. Our service department found that 99% of customer complaints with unevenness were strictly correlated to the lack of pre-wash. Color-processing times remain
unchanged even with pre-wash, whilst B&W development times need to be increased by
an average of 20% compared to B&W development without pre-wash.
With inversion processing the pre-wash can be skipped as the whole film is always simultaneously immersed in chemistry. Due to the reduced agitation in comparison to rotary
processing the development times are about 25% longer for inversion processing than
they are for rotary processing to achieve the same density. As a rule of thumb, you can
say that developing film in rotary processing with pre-wash will take about the same time
as inversion processing without pre-wash at any given temperature. Most large format
photographers know about the challenge of achieving evenness of processing when working manually. The larger the film format the greater this challenge becomes. Apart from
perfect control of push & pull process, the evenness is one of the main reasons why a
large format photographer should opt for the JOBO processor with Expert Drum."

[diversey]

I always believe pre-wash makes a lot of sense for film and photo paper development. Not sure why does Ilford not recommend pre-wash for its film development.

[Duolab123]

This is from Jobo's 2020 calendar "Pre-Wash
In this context it is helpful to remark that JOBO clearly recommends to always pre-wash
your film (and paper) in rotary processing for 2 to 5 minutes. Pre-washing allows the
emulsion to soften up and absorb first water molecules. Keep in mind that, different from
inversion processing, in rotary processing chemistry does not hit the whole film surface
at once. Pre-washing makes sure that chemical is evenly absorbed by the emulsion in
rotary processing of your film (and paper), avoiding unevenness and undulations on the
film surface. Our service department found that 99% of customer complaints with unevenness were strictly correlated to the lack of pre-wash. Color-processing times remain
unchanged even with pre-wash, whilst B&W development times need to be increased by
an average of 20% compared to B&W development without pre-wash.
With inversion processing the pre-wash can be skipped as the whole film is always simultaneously immersed in chemistry. Due to the reduced agitation in comparison to rotary
processing the development times are about 25% longer for inversion processing than
they are for rotary processing to achieve the same density. As a rule of thumb, you can
say that developing film in rotary processing with pre-wash will take about the same time
as inversion processing without pre-wash at any given temperature. Most large format
photographers know about the challenge of achieving evenness of processing when working manually. The larger the film format the greater this challenge becomes. Apart from
perfect control of push & pull process, the evenness is one of the main reasons why a
large format photographer should opt for the JOBO processor with Expert Drum."

Can you provide a link. What is the calendar? Is this literally a 2020 calendar, one you can hang on a nail?

[nbagno]

Can you provide a link. What is the calendar? Is this literally a 2020 calendar, one you can hang on a nail?

Oops, typo. Should have said catalog, not calendar. Link Here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MMPVxbjNSKiGkiIwaTTdGnkaygkCZqDD/view?usp=sharing)

[Duolab123]

Oops, typo. Should have said catalog, not calendar. Link Here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MMPVxbjNSKiGkiIwaTTdGnkaygkCZqDD/view?usp=sharing)

Thanks so much. This is the first time I've seen this much info from Jobo.

[JaZ99]

In my experience with prewash in Tetenal E-6 is that it causes a color shift.
If anyone interested, my FD times in Tetenal E-6 (manual rotation @ ~42 RPM) are:

1st reuse: 6:40
2nd reuse: 7:00
3rd reuse: 7:30
4th reuse: 8:00

Control strips:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BrAtzt8gbsF/

JaZ

[DannyTreacy]

I’m planning on doing some E6 processing soon, I am new to doing this process at home. I’ll be developing about 30 sheets of 5x4. I can see two products available here in the uk. One is the Colortec 3 bath kit which makes 2.5 litres of solution and the other is a Bellini 6 bath kit that makes 1 litre.

I wanted to ask:

Is the solution reusable or is it just single use?

I’m shooting a studio series, where the lighting is consistent throughout, so would it be best for consistency of colours to not reuse the chemicals, even if it is possible to do so?

Is there a way to find out how many sheets of 5 x 4 the kits can process? The data only gives information on 35mm film.

Is the 6 bath kit a big improvement on the 3 bath?

Thanks.

[Duolab123]

I’m planning on doing some E6 processing soon, I am new to doing this process at home. I’ll be developing about 30 sheets of 5x4. I can see two products available here in the uk. One is the Colortec 3 bath kit which makes 2.5 litres of solution and the other is a Bellini 6 bath kit that makes 1 litre.

I wanted to ask:

Is the solution reusable or is it just single use?

I’m shooting a studio series, where the lighting is consistent throughout, so would it be best for consistency of colours to not reuse the chemicals, even if it is possible to do so?

Is there a way to find out how many sheets of 5 x 4 the kits can process? The data only gives information on 35mm film.

Is the 6 bath kit a big improvement on the 3 bath?

Thanks.

1 135-36 equals 1 8x10 sheet equals 1 120 film. 4 4x5 equal 1 135-36

[pkr1979]

I have never tried the Bellini kit but Tetenals Colortec kit is brilliant. You can read abit here (it is Tetenal about Tetenal): https://tetenal.com/media/48/b8/74/1605714554/351734_01_Tetenal_E-6_3-Bath_EN_27-06-2018.pdf

The 2.5L kit is good for 30 135-36 films so reusable up to that.

[DannyTreacy]

1 135-36 equals 1 8x10 sheet equals 1 120 film. 4 4x5 equal 1 135-36

Thanks for the info, very helpful.

[DannyTreacy]

I have never tried the Bellini kit but Tetenals Colortec kit is brilliant. You can read abit here (it is Tetenal about Tetenal): https://tetenal.com/media/48/b8/74/1605714554/351734_01_Tetenal_E-6_3-Bath_EN_27-06-2018.pdf

The 2.5L kit is good for 30 135-36 films so reusable up to that.

Thanks for the info. So would I need to make up the chemicals in small batches as I go or do you have to make up the total kit and store it mixed?

Thanks.

[pkr1979]

I usually mix up 500ml. No need to mix up the entire thing. It has shorter shelf life mixed up.

[DannyTreacy]

I usually mix up 500ml. No need to mix up the entire thing. It has shorter shelf life mixed up.

Great thanks, do you know how long the undiluted solution would last when opened, if stored in a bottle with the air taken out?

[pkr1979]

It says 24 weeks: https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/tetenal_tech/Tetenal-Colortec-E6-3-Bath-Kit-2.5L-Instructions.pdf
Its probably gonna be good for longer :-)

[DannyTreacy]

It says 24 weeks: https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/tetenal_tech/Tetenal-Colortec-E6-3-Bath-Kit-2.5L-Instructions.pdf
Its probably gonna be good for longer :-)

Amazing, thanks!

[afrogrit]

Is it possible to do N+1 when developing E6 film?

[Drew Wiley]

The typical expression would be to Push it a stop in E6. Zone system N+ lingo has a somewhat different connotation. Yes, it can be done, but you should always run a test first to see what the penalty is, qualitatively. Being a chrome film, E100 is already quite contrasty, and a full step push is quite a bit. And doing a push for sake of using a higher ASA or to try to salvage a metering mistake won't land you the best results by any means. I recommend shooting a relatively cheap roll of 35mm or 120 film of the kind of subject matter and exposure strategy options you have in mind, and have a well-monitored lab push process that, to see if this is something you want to further pursue or not.

[afrogrit]

Thanks Drew for the great insight. I am developing the E6 myself I was wondering how to push and pull E6 on the development side.