Water marks

[davewell]

Hi all,

I recently purchased an sp445 developing tank. Have been processing film successfully, however recently I have been getting some strong water marks on the non emulsion (shiny) side of the film. They directly line up with the plastic markings of the film holders. They don't seem to be appearing on my scans, however I am still keen to do away with the problem.

I have been racking my brain to think how they could occur as I successfully processed my film without them previously. I then realised that all my previous film was Tmax 100 and the marks are appearing now on HP5. Is it possible that different film stocks are more susceptible to these issues than others?

Some photos attached.

199111
199112

[koraks]

Looks like abrasion, not water marks. Tmax100 is perfectly smooth and hard on both sides; other films are more susceptible to mechanical damage. I think the problem is related to the holders in the spearman tank and I believe I've read about this issue before.

[BrianShaw]

Which version of the holders are you using?

[davewell]

The most recent ones.

Shown here; https://shop.stearmanpress.com/products/sp-445-compact-4x5-film-processing-system?variant=19466108614

Edit: Sorry, did some research. I think I have version 3. The latest version (4) seem to be upgraded for warping and I had a look at my holders and they are straight.

[BrianShaw]

Let’s hope that got resolved in Rev4... I just bought one but haven’t had a chance to use it yet.

[Andy Eads]

Dave, Are you using a wetting agent as the last bath? It looks like the concentration might be too high. - Andy

[NHE]

I believe that is the anti halation coating that has not fully been washed off. They have an recommended washing procedure: https://youtu.be/5Xvkzidoxhc

Alternatively you could always wash the film separately in a tray. As to water marks I have found that two distilled water rinses with a short soak have eliminated all water marks for me.

[davewell]

Dave, Are you using a wetting agent as the last bath? It looks like the concentration might be too high. - Andy

Thanks Andy. I use a bath with a drop of detergent. I live in a developing country with no access to get a proper wetting agent atm. It could be that this concentration is too high? Do you think there is different tension on the film from where they have been resting on the holders and the last bath has stuck more to this area?

[davewell]

I believe that is the anti halation coating that has not fully been washed off. They have an recommended washing procedure: https://youtu.be/5Xvkzidoxhc

Alternatively you could always wash the film separately in a tray. As to water marks I have found that two distilled water rinses with a short soak have eliminated all water marks for me.

Thanks, I use the Ilford method of washing and haven't had a problem with this in the past. I may consider a separate tray wash but I want to somehow eliminate the possibility that this could have happened during the process before the wash.

[davewell]

Just a follow up to this post. I think I have solved the problem.
The film that I was developing was stored in the fridge. I took it out for about 15 minutes before loading it in a dark bag. I believe that the film was still cool when it was being loaded and perhaps even some moisture has drawn it closer to the film holders leaving marks when it is dry.
I left more film out overnight and developed it today with no problems.
Something to keep in mind for those who are using this system.
Cheers,

[jtomasella]

Just a follow up to this post. I think I have solved the problem.
The film that I was developing was stored in the fridge. I took it out for about 15 minutes before loading it in a dark bag. I believe that the film was still cool when it was being loaded and perhaps even some moisture has drawn it closer to the film holders leaving marks when it is dry.
I left more film out overnight and developed it today with no problems.
Something to keep in mind for those who are using this system.
Cheers,

I have my sheet film in sealed freezer bags in the fridge. I take them out at least 2 hours before I load film and I don't open the bag until it's time to load. I don't bag my roll film because it is already in a sealed bag.

[fdrsblanket]

I'm having the same issue as the OP, and the film hasn't been stored in the fridge. I also have rev 4 holders. It didn't appear when I first started using it, but now after about 40ish sheets, it seems to appear on every negative. I haven't changed my process at all. While it doesn't appear to show in scans, it is concerning. I'm starting to look for other solutions at this point.

[mpirie]

Are you pre-soaking the film before development?

I've had similar problems with FP4 which disappeared once i stopped pre-soaking.

Mike

[Tom Kershaw]

Are you pre-soaking the film before development?

I've had similar problems with FP4 which disappeared once i stopped pre-soaking.

Mike

Mike, are you using a Jobo or one of these Stearman tanks?

Tom

[mpirie]

I was using a Jobo, but prefer the Paterson Orbital.

Mike

[grat]

I'm having the same issue as the OP, and the film hasn't been stored in the fridge. I also have rev 4 holders. It didn't appear when I first started using it, but now after about 40ish sheets, it seems to appear on every negative. I haven't changed my process at all. While it doesn't appear to show in scans, it is concerning. I'm starting to look for other solutions at this point.

Have you tried cleaning the holders with alcohol? Sounds like maybe a residue buildup...?

[fdrsblanket]

@grat, I have tried cleaning with alcohol, and I also avoid dunking the holders in photo-flo.
@mpirie, I do pre-soak. I'll try your recommendation on skipping and see what happens.