Starting 4x5 - Which film?

[Alan Klein]

I have a 4x5 camera on order and have to select film. I;ve been shooting landscapes mainly in medium format 6x7 with Velvia 50 and Tmax 100. You can see the kind I like to do on my Flickr link. All processing and printing is done by outside labs. I do scan myself however with a flat bed V600. (That would have to be changed since the V600 doesn;t scan 4x5)

Would my continuing with Velvia 50 and Tmax 100 be acceptable with the new 4x5 format? Or should I consider speed and other factors and make a change? to what? Thanks. Alan.

PS Any suggested tests I should do with the film to get a better feeling with it with the LF camera?

[Jim Noel]

Start with the films with which you are familiar, but be aware the emulsions may be slightly different. Begin by using the same EI and development with which you are familiar.If the negatives are satisfactory, you are in business.If not, let us know and I am sure you will get more advice than you may want.

[ShugPug]

I have a 4x5 camera on order and have to select film. I;ve been shooting landscapes mainly in medium format 6x7 with Velvia 50 and Tmax 100. You can see the kind I like to do on my Flickr link. All processing and printing is done by outside labs. I do scan myself however with a flat bed V600. (That would have to be changed since the V600 doesn;t scan 4x5)

Would my continuing with Velvia 50 and Tmax 100 be acceptable with the new 4x5 format? Or should I consider speed and other factors and make a change? to what? Thanks. Alan.

PS Any suggested tests I should do with the film to get a better feeling with it with the LF camera?Similar position to you (waiting for the camera to arrive...)

I've got a boss of Fomapan 100 to learn on, because it's cheap and I fully expect to make a bunch of mistakes at first!

[JMO]

Alan, I was in your situation (new to 4x5 LF and interested mostly in landscapes and color film options) several years ago, and I purchased too much color film during my first couple of years. In hindsight, I didn't expect my interest in, and preference for, B&W photography with my LF and MF film cameras would be as strong as it has become (i.e., there's way too much fun to be had in the darkroom making silver gelatin prints). And I've found that I can get acceptable print quality for my color landscape images in the print sizes I'm interested (up to 16x24in) when I use my 35mm format digital camera. One of the key reasons I can get those acceptable results with my 35mm digital camera (mirrorless, with 24MP FX format sensor) is that I shoot from a good, sturdy tripod essentially 100% of the time. Therefore, I would suggest you be careful about purchasing too much color film until you are certain about your preferences to use said films.

[Bill Burk]

Because you have more square inches of film than medium format, you can use a slightly faster film.

I like the flexibility of having 400 speed film, and I like TMAX-400 because you get more speed than you need without too much grain - while 100 speed film starts to become slower than convenient.

So when you shoot it at 64 instead of 100 to get good shadow detail...

When you add a red filter that drops you down to effective EI 8... that's what I mean about it becoming slower than convenient. It's fine, just starts to get slow.

Starting at 400, shooting at 250 for shadow detail and adding a red filter, you come down to effective EI 32 that you can still work with easily.

[Alan Klein]

Thanks everyone.

1. Curious, due to movements, with LF do these affect how much light goes to different portions of the film? Or is the amount of light the same throughout?

2. I also read somewhere that you sometimes need a center filter? What's that about?

3. With medium format, I always bracketed +1 and -1 for both Velvia 50 and Tmax 100 based on meter reading using box speeds. It was cheap insurance to get the exposure right. What do you guys do with 4x5 shots? My wife's going to complain if I have to cut back on our dinners out.

[lassethomas]

About center filters.

Since most large format wide angle lenses (if not all) are symmetric designs they also suffer from lots of light fall-off in the corners (comes with the design). For example, the Schneider Super Angulon 90/5.6 has about 2.5 stops.
To counter this you can use a center filter, with is just a gradual ND filter that blocks most light in the center.

It depends, but usually most critical with slide film, since it got very small dynamic range.

/Lasse

[jtomasella]

I have a 4x5 camera on order and have to select film. I;ve been shooting landscapes mainly in medium format 6x7 with Velvia 50 and Tmax 100. You can see the kind I like to do on my Flickr link. All processing and printing is done by outside labs. I do scan myself however with a flat bed V600. (That would have to be changed since the V600 doesn;t scan 4x5)

Would my continuing with Velvia 50 and Tmax 100 be acceptable with the new 4x5 format? Or should I consider speed and other factors and make a change? to what? Thanks. Alan.

PS Any suggested tests I should do with the film to get a better feeling with it with the LF camera?

Shoot the films you like to shoot in medium format. You can scan with a V600 (see my image in at the waters edge). You have to scan twice and stitch in photoshop. It's more steps but it will do for now.

[brad martin]

In regards to #1...

The ground glass is what you see is what you get.

If your cutting off corners it should be apparent on the ground glass.

#2....

I've always found 2/3 of box speed to be a better starting point. At least with b/w film. Processing b/w film yourself isn't that big of a deal. Especially since you scan your own negatives. You'll probably want that control.

#3......

Bracketing.....many won't admit to it.

After 2/3 of box speed I've also found +/- 1/2 stop better.

Transparency film is much less forgiving. 1/3 of a stop is more like it. Though I stopped shooting color about the time Fuji stopped selling or manufacturing Astia. At least in the US. So it's been quite awhile.

Good luck.

[Two23]

Alan, I was in your situation (new to 4x5 LF and interested mostly in landscapes and color film options) several years ago, and I purchased too much color film during my first couple of years. In hindsight, I didn't expect my interest in, and preference for, B&W photography with my LF and MF film cameras would be as strong as it has become (i.e., there's way too much fun to be had in the darkroom making silver gelatin prints). And I've found that I can get acceptable print quality for my color landscape images in the print sizes I'm interested (up to 16x24in) when I use my 35mm format digital camera. One of the key reasons I can get those acceptable results with my 35mm digital camera (mirrorless, with 27MP FX format sensor) is that I shoot from a good, sturdy tripod essentially 100% of the time. Therefore, I would suggest you be careful about purchasing too much color film until you are certain about your preferences to use said films.


My experience was exactly this. I started 4x5 in the mid 1990s and was using a Hassleblad shooting trannies for a regional stock agency. I moved to 4x5 so I could get lens movements, and partly because none of my competitors could flop a big square of film on the light table like that.:) Up to that point I had little interest in b&w, maybe shot three rolls in a year. After two years of shooting 4x5 I found myself drifting to b&w. I mostly put 4x5 away from 2005 to 2009 and when I dived back in I only shot b&w. After ten years of that today I still only shoot b&w film but now also dry plates and wet plates. Since August about 80% of my photo energy has gone into getting better at wet plate, it's that much fun! I haven't bought any color LF sheets in five years. Still have a box of Ektar in my freezer just in case though. I do shoot color of course, but always use my Nikon D850 for that.

Starting exactly a year ago I began processing my own b&w using a Stearman 445. I mostly got tired of running to the post office to mail off my film, and then waiting 10 days to get my results back. So now I shoot and get my negs the same day. This is hugely convenient! Much to my surprise the results are honestly better. Virtually no dust/specs on my negs now. It's so easy I'm kicking myself for not doing this years ago.


Kent in SD

[Alan Klein]

Shoot the films you like to shoot in medium format. You can scan with a V600 (see my image in at the waters edge). You have to scan twice and stitch in photoshop. It's more steps but it will do for now.

Where do I find your images?

[Alan Klein]

My experience was exactly this. I started 4x5 in the mid 1990s and was using a Hassleblad shooting trannies for a regional stock agency. I moved to 4x5 so I could get lens movements, and partly because none of my competitors could flop a big square of film on the light table like that.:) Up to that point I had little interest in b&w, maybe shot three rolls in a year. After two years of shooting 4x5 I found myself drifting to b&w. I mostly put 4x5 away from 2005 to 2009 and when I dived back in I only shot b&w. After ten years of that today I still only shoot b&w film but now also dry plates and wet plates. Since August about 80% of my photo energy has gone into getting better at wet plate, it's that much fun! I haven't bought any color LF sheets in five years. Still have a box of Ektar in my freezer just in case though. I do shoot color of course, but always use my Nikon D850 for that.

Starting exactly a year ago I began processing my own b&w using a Stearman 445. I mostly got tired of running to the post office to mail off my film, and then waiting 10 days to get my results back. So now I shoot and get my negs the same day. This is hugely convenient! Much to my surprise the results are honestly better. Virtually no dust/specs on my negs now. It's so easy I'm kicking myself for not doing this years ago.


Kent in SD

I watched the Styearman video. Very interesting. I think I'll hold off for now as I'll be starting with chromes and BW. Also, I don;t want to overwhelm myself. I want to work on the shooting first as LF is all new to me. But the developing raises a question. I need an changing "tent" or "bag" to load the film. Any recommendations for 4x5? Should I get something bigger if I decide later to develop myself?

Actually how does the whole process work. I watch some videos. But the guy started with the film laying on his desk. How are they even packed in the film boxes? Is each sheet packed separately or do all sheets in the box get covered with one protector?? Is there a tape that shows the whole process from opening the box to securing the film? Where could I get a box to practice on? Maybe I could buy a cheap 10 sheet box as the practice set. I certainly don;t want to practice with expensive Velvia.

[Two23]

Typing on my phone. Sheets inside bag inside box. I have dark bag never use it. Load film at night in interior bathroom has no windows. Lights off in adjoining room, towel stuffed under door. Have 4 to six holders on outing and that's enough for a day. Today I was gone 7 hours, took x2 shots. 100% keeper rate.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

I agree with using less expensive FP4+ and not. color film for first 25+ shots. You WILL make mistakes. All kinds. Should have it down after ~50 shots.


Kent in SD

[lassethomas]

I agree with using less expensive FP4+ and not. color film for first 25+ shots. You WILL make mistakes. All kinds. Should have it down after ~50 shots.


Kent in SD

Good advice. I got a box of Fomapan200 (https://www.fotoimpex.com/films/foma-fomapan-200-102x127-cm-4x5-inch-50-sheets.html?cache=1578224460) when I started in 2018. It's not a really bad film and it's cheap, and that feels good when you notice you forgot to close the shutter before removing the dark slide. And yes, you will forget. We have all forgot. :)

[Alan Klein]

Well, I'm still double exposing my MF Mamiya RB67 shots on occasion. So wasting film is not new to me. :)

I just looked at B&H and found out my favorite color film in medium format Velvia 50 isn't available in 4x5, only Velvia 100. The Gods are already punishing me for GAS and my "need" to move on to LF. :)
I didn't like Velvia 100 when I tried it. But I'm stuck to use it or try Provia.

[Alan Klein]

I agree with using less expensive FP4+ and not. color film for first 25+ shots. You WILL make mistakes. All kinds. Should have it down after ~50 shots.


Kent in SD

I'll probably shoot both. The thing I like about chromes is you know immediately whether you nailed the exposure. That's why I don't shoot color negatives. Plus I can't wait to throw some slides onto a light pad. The camera was shipped but I;m still working on the first lens. Lots of things to consider. I'm getting excited.

[Two23]

Since it's all manual and nothing (except hand held meter) is electronic, there are a lot of steps. No single step is at all difficult. The difficulty is remembering to do all the steps.:D I advise making a check list to carry and following it like a recipe.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

Not all film manufacturers use the inner box (Fuji?) Below. Film is processed negatives, of course. I mark an "X" on boxes that have been opened and contain unexposed film.


Kent in SD

[Eric Leppanen]

I just looked at B&H and found out my favorite color film in medium format Velvia 50 isn't available in 4x5, only Velvia 100.4x5 Velvia 50 is available directly from Japan, albeit at a significant price premium when using sources such as Ebay sellers and Japan Exposures. I purchased some from fellow LF forum member B.S. Kumar several years ago (he is very active in the For Sale section here), if I were to order more, I would contact Kumar. Here is his price list from June 2018 (I believe prices have since increased due to Fuji price increases and changes in the exchange rate):

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?129053-Film-etc-from-Japan&p=1447615&viewfull=1#post1447615

[lassethomas]

Well, I'm still double exposing my MF Mamiya RB67 shots on occasion. So wasting film is not new to me. :)

I just looked at B&H and found out my favorite color film in medium format Velvia 50 isn't available in 4x5, only Velvia 100. The Gods are already punishing me for GAS and my "need" to move on to LF. :)
I didn't like Velvia 100 when I tried it. But I'm stuck to use it or try Provia.

Another option could be to get a 6x12 back and use Vevia 50 in 120 format.
Depends on how you shoot of course.
Nicer to the wallet too.

[koraks]

Good advice. I got a box of Fomapan200 (https://www.fotoimpex.com/films/foma-fomapan-200-102x127-cm-4x5-inch-50-sheets.html?cache=1578224460) when I started in 2018. It's not a really bad film and it's cheap, and that feels good when you notice you forgot to close the shutter before removing the dark slide. And yes, you will forget. We have all forgot. :)

Foma200 is in fact a quite capable film stock particularly in 4x5". I use it frequently and it's been a reliable and useful tool in my experience. As is fomapan100, but that's a slightly different animal. Can't go wrong with either, especially given the price. But even regardless of that aspect; I find I prefer either of these over tmax 100... (which, arguably, is one of the best film stocks out there in a technical sense).

[Vaughn]

If you wish to stay with a TMax film, I would suggest the 400 if there is any chance would would like to try alt processes directly with camera negatives -- a majority of people are scanning and printing enlarged inkjet negs for alt process so it is less of an issue. There is a UV blocking coating or such in the TMax100 that the TMax400 does not have.

Actually, it probably will not make a splish of difference for learning if you got boxes of both...keeping it straight which one is which in which holder, etc might get interesting. I used a lot of 4x5 TMax100 in the 80s for landscapes (redwoods to Death Valley and beyond). HC-110, 16x20 silver gelatin prints. I can't say that I knew a lot back then, but I liked my prints and I liked Kodak's quality control.

I use primarily Ilford FP4+...a fine film for my alt process needs.

[Alan Klein]

Since it's all manual and nothing (except hand held meter) is electronic, there are a lot of steps. No single step is at all difficult. The difficulty is remembering to do all the steps.:D I advise making a check list to carry and following it like a recipe.


Kent in SD

I found this on this site. What do you think?
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-operate.html

[Alan Klein]

Not all film manufacturers use the inner box (Fuji?) Below. Film is processed negatives, of course. I mark an "X" on boxes that have been opened and contain unexposed film.


Kent in SD

So before I ruin an entire box of film, let's see if I understand this right.

1. I buy a box of 25 photos. They come inside the box inside another light proof wrapper. I put the whole box with let's say 6 film holders in a light proof changing tent. Right so far?
2. I open the box and pull out the inside wrapper with all the film.
3. Then I insert one sheet in each side of each of the 6 holders., covering each with the dark slides.
4. I leave the rest of the film sheets in the wrapper and put it inside the box and close it for the next time.
5. I pull the holder out and go shoot pictures.

Are all these procedures right?

6. How does Ilford differ from Kodak Tmax?

7. Next I have taken 6 pictures using 3 holders. How do I get the exposed sheet out of the holders and to the pro lab? I won;t develop my own at this time anyway.

[Alan Klein]

If you wish to stay with a TMax film, I would suggest the 400 if there is any chance would would like to try alt processes directly with camera negatives -- a majority of people are scanning and printing enlarged inkjet negs for alt process so it is less of an issue. There is a UV blocking coating or such in the TMax100 that the TMax400 does not have.

Actually, it probably will not make a splish of difference for learning if you got boxes of both...keeping it straight which one is which in which holder, etc might get interesting. I used a lot of 4x5 TMax100 in the 80s for landscapes (redwoods to Death Valley and beyond). HC-110, 16x20 silver gelatin prints. I can't say that I knew a lot back then, but I liked my prints and I liked Kodak's quality control.

I use primarily Ilford FP4+...a fine film for my alt process needs.

Thanks for the info. What are alt processes and why stay with the Tmax 400 because of it?

What does the UV coating do to Tmax 100 that doesn;t happen with Tmax 400?

[Merg Ross]

Alan, to make life easier, avoid the changing tent if possible. You are adding a step that can be easily avoided by blocking out light, say in a bathroom. Block out the window, put a towel under the door, make a flat loading surface (table or board) and, preferably wait until night. This works at home or on the road in a motel. You don't need a dedicated room for this.

You can use an empty film box for transporting your exposed film to a lab. Ask on this forum for empty 4x5 film boxes. If the lab is local they may take the exposed holders and return them to you with the developed film.

[Two23]

I found this on this site. What do you think?
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-operate.html



One crucial step left out. Between 13 and 14 you need to write in, in big red letters, "CLOSE THE DAMN VIEWING SHUTTER!!! This is the shutter that you open so you can see through the lens to compose and focus. It's easy to forget to close it. So, when you remove the dark slide with the viewing shutter open you've essentially made a long unintended exposure. Very common mistake.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

Alan, to make life easier, avoid the changing tent if possible. You are adding a step that can be easily avoided by blocking out light, say in a bathroom. Block out the window, put a towel under the door, make a flat loading surface (table or board) and, preferably wait until night. This works at home or on the road in a motel. You don't need a dedicated room for this.

You can use an empty film box for transporting your exposed film to a lab. Ask on this forum for empty 4x5 film boxes. If the lab is local they may take the exposed holders and return them to you with the developed film.

Totally agree. Changing tents are a big pain in the ass. I avoid them if at all possible, and haven't used one in two years. Find an interior room with no windows. I use a bathroom just outside my bedroom. At night, turn the lights off in the adjoining room. Tell wife not to go in and turn them back on. Go into bathroom and set up your holders and film box on the sink. (I place a wide thin board over the sink.) Make sure the dark slides are all turned white side out and partially open. Remove the tape from one end of the film box but don't open it. Place everthing within easy reach. Close bathroom door, stuff a towel along the crack in the bottom. Turn off light. Wait several minutes for eyes to adjust and then look for any light seeping through from somewhere. Open film box, remove film from black plastic bag (which isn't 100% light proof BTW,) film will be in a small paper folder. I usually tuck the film folder under my arm so it doesn't end up on the floor. Grab a holder, turn it bottom side up facing you, pull out one sheet of film (make sure just one sheet--sometimes two stick), orient it so notches are in the right upper corner, and then slide it into the holder following instructions on the video I posted a few days ago. Close up the dark slide, set it down in a spot where only loaded holders will go, and grab the next one. When finished, put the film back into the black bag, place in the inner box, then place that upside down back into the film box. Stop and think for a minute--"Is anything left out where the light will hit it that I don't want light to hit?" Then turn on the light. One more step. On the top of the holders is a little metal "L", the dark slide keepers. Turn those so they block the slide from pulling out. Yes, the slides can sometimes open in your bag, or you grab a holder and start pulling it out and realize you've opened the slide too. Place an "X" on the film box so you know it's a partial box, and make SURE to tape the box back up so it doesn't open. I store mine in the refrigerator.

The only time I ever use a changing bag is when I'm out in the field and have no access to a room that's dark. I've been known to ask the owner of a restaurant I've eaten lunch in if I can go into his walk in freezer to change out film, rather than use a dark bag. They are a big pain in the ass.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

So before I ruin an entire box of film, let's see if I understand this right.

1. I buy a box of 25 photos. They come inside the box inside another light proof wrapper. I put the whole box with let's say 6 film holders in a light proof changing tent. Right so far?
2. I open the box and pull out the inside wrapper with all the film.
3. Then I insert one sheet in each side of each of the 6 holders., covering each with the dark slides.
4. I leave the rest of the film sheets in the wrapper and put it inside the box and close it for the next time.
5. I pull the holder out and go shoot pictures.

Are all these procedures right?

6. How does Ilford differ from Kodak Tmax?

7. Next I have taken 6 pictures using 3 holders. How do I get the exposed sheet out of the holders and to the pro lab? I won;t develop my own at this time anyway.


Yes, looks good except be sure to retape the film box together. I store in the refrigerator.

6. TMax is a bit more contrasty, Ilford FP4+ and HP5 is a softer look, more like the older Kodak Tri-X etc. The difference isn't really huge. I find FP4+ easy to work with & expose. I like the classic look, some like a more modern look that TMax gives.


7. I do unloading as a separate procedure from loading. Same thing--back in the bathroom with lights out etc. Have an empty box opened on the counter. Lights off, towel at bottom of door crack. Open holder, pull out film using fingertips and only touching edge, place inside the white paper folder, place inside inner box. Flip holder over, open slide about half way, pull out second sheet, etc. When done flip the inner box over and place back into the film box, retape it shut. Mark on a sticky note on the outside of box what's inside. I write: "FP4 IIII IIII" using hash marks to keep track of how many sheets are in the box. I also write "OPEN DARK" on any box with unprocessed film.


Kent in SD

[Two23]

So before I ruin an entire box of film, let's see if I understand this right.

.

As long as you don't expose any film to light, you won't ruin any film. Also, I don't really trust the black wrapper to be light proof either.


Kent in SD

[paulbarden]

7. I do unloading as a separate procedure from loading. Same thing--back in the bathroom with lights out etc. Have an empty box opened on the counter. Lights off, towel at bottom of door crack. Open holder, pull out film using fingertips and only touching edge, place inside the white paper folder, place inside inner box. Flip holder over, open slide about half way, pull out second sheet, etc. When done flip the inner box over and place back into the film box, retape it shut. Mark on a sticky note on the outside of box what's inside. I write: "FP4 IIII IIII" using hash marks to keep track of how many sheets are in the box. I also write "OPEN DARK" on any box with unprocessed film.

Alan, if you're nervous about this part of the process (transferring sheets into boxes for mailing), you should check with the lab you plan to use and ask them if its OK to ship the film in the film holders, and let them ship them back to you with the processed film. That way you don't have to worry about taking the film out and putting it into a box for mailing. Just be sure to turn the key locks on the top of the holders to keep the dark slides in place and/or tape the tops of the holders to prevent them moving while in transit.
There is an advantage to shipping film in the film holders: if you have two or more film types to be shipped at the same time. You shouldn't mix film types in one box, as that is likely to confuse/annoy the lab personnel. But as I say, check with your chosen lab to get recommendations about their approved procedure. I'm sure some labs don't want to handle your film holders (and it may be inconvenient to have to live without the film holders for 2 weeks while you wait for their return).

[drew.saunders]

So before I ruin an entire box of film, let's see if I understand this right. ...

I'd recommend removing a sheet from the box, reassembling the box, and then using this one sacrificial sheet to practice loading and unloading the film holder in daylight. That sheet is ruined, of course, but better than the whole box, and now you have a more practical 24 sheet box, with which you can load 12 holders (or 6 holders twice, etc.)

Practice in daylight, practice with your eyes closed, and then practice in dark, and then, when you're comfortable, load "real" film in full darkness (I use a changing tent, but I have no light-tight rooms in my apartment) with some degree of confidence that you won't mess up a whole box. I burned two sheets long ago so I could practice loading both sides, which you may still want to do.

[Vaughn]

Thanks for the info. What are alt processes and why stay with the Tmax 400 because of it? Alternative processes are those (usually wet) photographic processes other than the use-to-be usual silver gelatin printing (regular photopaper) -- cyanotypes, platinum printing, carbon transfer, gum printing, and so on.

What does the UV coating do to Tmax 100 that doesn;t happen with Tmax 400? I do not have a clue...perhaps something that comes into play during the manufacture to allow inspection by UV light...total guess. Or perhaps a technical need for some exotic commercial uses that needs the UV blocked at the film stage rather than UV blocking on the optical path? Another pure guess.

The difference between FP4+ and TMax100/400 -- very little to no difference at first, then as one uses and becomes familiar with all of them, the differences revel themselves quite nicely. In other words -- pick a film and have fun!

It is nice to have an empty box to put your exposed film in. I prefer to develop film right out of the holder, but not always possible. You can put exposed film back into the box of unexposed film, but one needs to have a sound system for knowing which is which.

[Peter De Smidt]

If speed matters and cost doesn't, then try TMax 400. If speed matters and cost matters, then HP5+. If cost matters more than speed, then Delta 100 is a fine film. For me, it's a bit faster than FP4+.

[alt.kafka]

I started with the Foma 100, using the Stearman SP-76EC developer. I have a box of Tri-X 320 that I haven't opened yet, and some TMax 400. I've been using other films and developers on 35mm and 120. I've really liked HP5+ on those formats. At some point I'll try that on 4x5. Most likely I'll just end up pairing everything down to a few.

[mikeacar]

There's some useful advice in the thread "Kit recommendations for a complete beginner"


https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?154785-Kit-recommendations-for-a-complete-beginner (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?154785-Kit-recommendations-for-a-complete-beginner)


particularly regarding testing film holders. I bought used and found that one of them was leaky. Similarly, my bellows had a couple of leaks in it.

I think the step-by-step guide link you posted is a good one.

Also, after struggling with a home-made dark cloth, I upgraded to binocular viewer with a visor, and that makes the ground glass a lot easier to see.

-- Mike

[jtomasella]

Where do I find your images?

Page 606 post 6052 Waters edge thread

[Alan Klein]

Page 606 post 6052 Waters edge thread

If I'm not mistaken, I can see where the stitching was done. There's a line from top to bottom in about the middle of the page. The exposure looks lighter on the left side. https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?46577-What-did-you-compose-at-Waters-Edge&p=1530406&viewfull=1#post1530406

Are there other programs available to stitch using a scan from the V600 of a 4x5? Which method do you use?

[jtomasella]

If I'm not mistaken, I can see where the stitching was done. There's a line from top to bottom in about the middle of the page. The exposure looks lighter on the left side. https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?46577-What-did-you-compose-at-Waters-Edge&p=1530406&viewfull=1#post1530406

Are there other programs available to stitch using a scan from the V600 of a 4x5? Which method do you use?

I can see the line you are talking about in the darker area of the cloud reflection. I use light room classic to stitch them.

[Alan Klein]

If I'm not mistaken, I can see where the stitching was done. There's a line from top to bottom in about the middle of the page. The exposure looks lighter on the left side. https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?46577-What-did-you-compose-at-Waters-Edge&p=1530406&viewfull=1#post1530406

Are there other programs available to stitch using a scan from the V600 of a 4x5? Which method do you use?

The problem might be auto settings on the scanner. If you're scanning different sections of the same negative, the scanner program will adjust based on the portion of the negative it's looking at. So it comes up with a different exposures. Then when you stitch, the two sides don;t match.

Try setting the scanner to make no adjustments during the scan at all. No sharpening, no exposure, nothing. Then either stitch before making changes in LR. Or make exactly the same changes on both sides in LR and then stitch. See what happens.

[Alan Klein]

How do you keep track of which film is in which holder (assuming you use different films)? Which exposed film was for which exposure?

[dfort]

Most film holders have small white area(s) that you can write notes on--very tiny notes. Make sure you write in pencil or something that can be erased. Another option is to paint numbers on your film holders and enter notes in a notebook. Whatever you do don't use tape in areas where the holder needs to seat in the camera back or make notes on the dark slide with a white grease pencil. Yeah, I've seen that done and it mucks up the felt in the holder's light trap.

[Two23]

How do you keep track of which film is in which holder (assuming you use different films)? Which exposed film was for which exposure?

I use an inch long piece of colored tape. For FP4+ I use blue tape with a big black "F" written on it. For HP5+ I use a piece of green tape with a big black "H" written on it. For Ektar 100 I have Yellow tape squares with a big "E" written on it. I can tell at a glance what's in the holder. I am careful to change the tape if I load with different film. This system has proven fool proof for me and is very fast in the field. The tape is only something like 3/4 inch by 1/2 inch in size, and placed in a recessed area on the top of the holder, usually in a corner.


Kent in SD

[Alan Klein]

At my age, I have trouble keeping similar pairs of white socks together. :) So please bear with me.

So after you shoot let's say three holder's worth of 6 sheets. Different film. PLus even with the same film, you have different exposure settings which require different pushing and pulling or whatever. You take them out in the tent or darkroom. How do you keep track which of the 6 sheets are which? The holder may be marked with film type and numbers. But the film isn;t.

[peter k.]

How do you keep track which of the 6 sheets are which? The holder may be marked with film type and numbers. But the film isn;t.

Yes it is, if you have made a notch in the flap, that you open to insert the film. This notch shows up as a dark V in the area above the image.
Love to show you an example on a film holder, but they are all loaded.
Here are some examples, of what it would look like on exposed 4x5 neg, at the upper edge of the film:
V = film holder number U = notch in film informing which side of the emulsion is up

---------V---------------------------------------U------- = Film holder 1
---------V-V-V----------------------------------U------- = Film Holder 3
---------V-V----------V-------------------------U------- = Film Holder 7
---------V-V-V-V-----V------------------------- U------ = Film Holder 9
-----------------------V-V-----------------------U------ = Film Holder 10

All it takes is a triangular file.
On underexposed negatives, the tell tale will be there, but very faint.
Hope this helps.

[peter k.]

OH .. important point forgot to explain... the notch has to be placed on the part of the film holder flap, that is next to the film, below the edge where the dark slide slides into, and does not get cut into that area!!!! So with the film slide in, there is no exposure to the film surface but when the dark slide is taken out, that area will be available to the light to expose the small V area that will show up on the developed film.

[Two23]

At my age, I have trouble keeping similar pairs of white socks together. :) So please bear with me.

So after you shoot let's say three holder's worth of 6 sheets. Different film. PLus even with the same film, you have different exposure settings which require different pushing and pulling or whatever. You take them out in the tent or darkroom. How do you keep track which of the 6 sheets are which? The holder may be marked with film type and numbers. But the film isn;t.

I have simplified my work flow to avoid as many problems as possible. I normally carry three speeds with me: (1) FP4+ ISO 125 (2) HP5+ ISO 400 (3) Lane dry plates ISO 2. I have four or five holders of FP4+, and one holder each of the others. This gives me a good spread. I never use a dark tent in the field--no need. I just come prepared. If I push a film it's almost always the HP5 pushed to ISO 800 and normally I know in advance I'm going to do that. (I shoot it at night that way.) I use a red sticky dot like you find to price garage sales and place that on the dark slide after I've reinserted it after exposing. I very rarely shoot film from other than it's rated speed. I do my best to simplify my work flow, not complicate it.


Kent in SD

[Merg Ross]

At my age, I have trouble keeping similar pairs of white socks together. :) So please bear with me.

PLus even with the same film, you have different exposure settings which require different pushing and pulling or whatever. The holder may be marked with film type and numbers. But the film isn;t.

You have several choices. The obvious is to develop by inspection using a green light (DBI). Another method is to mark your holders in the field for plus or minus development, place in similarly marked boxes in the dark, and proceed with development. A third method is to meter carefully and use time and temperature.

[Alan Klein]

I should have clarified that I don;t have a dark room. All my film will be sent out.

[Merg Ross]

Hi Alan. That is what I thought.

Do you have a good working relationship with your lab? If so, perhaps they will do plus/minus for you. In that case, you will need to mark the holders in the field and transfer the film to marked boxes (+ or -) for the lab. Best method for you is #3 above.

Has your camera arrived?

[Peter De Smidt]

I wouldn't worry about it, unless there are extremes. In his newsletter, Fred Picker talked about comparing negatives developed normally and those given plus development for the same scene The normally developed negatives required a harder grade of paper, but once that was done, he didn't see differences between them. Mind you, this is for large format negatives not enlarged very much. My experience matches his. I rarely need plus (or minus) development. I wouldn't even consider the hassle unless is was in the + or - 2 range. In those cases, I might develop more to increase contrast, but in the lowering contrast case, I'd avoid minus development and use 2-bath Pyrocat or SLIMT.

[Drew Wiley]

One more reason to ignore what Picker said.

[Alan Klein]

Hi Alan. That is what I thought.

Do you have a good working relationship with your lab? If so, perhaps they will do plus/minus for you. In that case, you will need to mark the holders in the field and transfer the film to marked boxes (+ or -) for the lab. Best method for you is #3 above.

Has your camera arrived?
Yes. I have received the Chmaonix 45H-1 camera and film and loaded up 5 holders and shot one picture. Trying to figure out tilts on my Chamoix which has asymetric swings and tilts. I was trying to shoot something outside at around 7 feet but wanted a range of about 5-14'. So I focued the against the line and then tilted down the front to get the image in focus at the other line. Not sure it that was correct. The back has asymmetric swings tilts also, I believe.

Then I stopped down to F22 (at 1 sec) which according to my DOF APP give me 5.21'-10.65' for my 150mm at .1 COC. Question: How does the tilt affect the DOF? And vice versa?

So I labelled the dark slide for that picture with a peal-off arrow signature marker that you stick on contracts for people to sign show where to affix your signature. Labelled it #1 E. How do you mark up your holders?

PS Yes the labs I've worked with will push and pull film for $1 or $2 more on a roll of 120. DOn;t know offhand what they charge on sheet film. The lab I;ve worked with process Tmax 100 film in Xtol. But they will use other formulas but with a high $50 setup charge. So I'll keep it standard for now.