Copal 3 Shutter

[Smitty]

I guess there are apparently more than 1 thread pattern for Copal 3. I had a Copal 3 shutter and attempted to mount my 355 G Claron barrel lens but the mount opening was much too large for this lens. Shutter may have been built for Rodenstock,
This lens destined to remain in the barrel?
Steve

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Hi!

Be aware that among Copal shutters, there exist two different models labeled #3 and #3s

all sizes in mm ___ Copal # : ______ 3s __________ 3
1/ retaining ring thread _______ M61.0x0.75 ___ M62.0x0.75
2/ retaining ring outside diameter __ 64.0 ________ 65.1
3/ lensboard hole diameter _______ 64.2 ________ 65.3
4/ front lens cell thread _______ M56.0x0.75 ___ M58.0x0.75
5/ rear lens cell thread _______ M56.0x0.75 ____ M58.0x0.75
6/ distance between ________ 28.6+-0.025 ______ 31.5
reference planes


Compur or Prontor #3s shutters do not exist, the smaller #3s shutter is proper to Copal.

[Steve Goldstein]

And just to make it more confusing, sometimes the 3S-sized shutters are marked as 3, or even just "Copal". You really need to measure them.

A later 355mm G-Claron should be a direct fit to a Copal 3 (not 3S). Do you possibly have the earlier Dagor-style 355? What's the serial number? And if you remove the cells from the barrel, what's the measurement in mm across the mounting threads?

[Luis-F-S]

Shutter may have been built for Rodenstock,
This lens destined to remain in the barrel?
Steve

No, what's the serial #? There is a thread on Copal 3's on this site, but you have to read it.

[Smitty]

Measurement across the mounting threads 39.6875mm. ser starts w 11401... I sold the Copal 3 as by time I had it mounted would cost me more than just finding a good ready to go lens.
S

[OKAROB]

Smitty, can you post photos of the markings on your lens. Are you sure it is a 355mm and not a 305mm G-Claron? 39mm is awfully close to a Copal 1 shutter size and 305mm came in Copal 1. I think some early 355mm G-Claron came in Compound 3 shutters.

Robert

[OKAROB]

Came across this old thread about a mysterious 355mm G-Claron in a Copal 1 shutter: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138581-355mm-G-Claron-f11-variant

Not sure that thread will help, may cause more confusion than help? Is your lens a f11 of f9? I think we would still like to see photos.

Robert

[Smitty]

This is the lens in question:. Measured front element again 55.55 mm. will not fit Copal 1

[OKAROB]

Hello Smitty, That measurement makes more sense. Looks like its the older 355MM G-Claron made to fit a Compound 3 shutter. See this old thread: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?148813-Compound-3-Shutter

Robert

[OKAROB]

Smitty, There was a time when Schneider made 210mm Xenar lens in Copal 3 shutters. Apparently Copal made them for Schneider as Compound 3 replacements. Be patient, they come up for auction every now and then.

Robert

[OKAROB]

Here are photos of the Copal 3 shutter you are looking for. Note the measurement in the photo. It is labeled as Copal 3 but has the compound 3 measurements. In the old thread it is stated that the older 355mm G-Claron lens will fit the Compound 3 shutter so it should fit a similar Copal 3 shutter.
198779

[Smitty]

OKAROB Thanks, that explains a lot. I have had this lens for some time now but have been baffled as to fitting it into a shutter. Lens is in very good shape with exception of a little bit of Schneideritis.

[MAubrey]

Here are photos of the Copal 3 shutter you are looking for. Note the measurement in the photo. It is labeled as Copal 3 but has the compound 3 measurements. In the old thread it is stated that the older 355mm G-Claron lens will fit the Compound 3 shutter so it should fit a similar Copal 3 shutter.
198779
Other options for what you're looking for include:

Angulon 210mm f/6.8 in a Copal 3
Symmar 300mm f/5.6 (not S) in a Copal 3
Tele-Xenar 360mm f/5.5 in a Copal 3

[Smitty]

Thanks for that info, I will keep an eye open. Probably tough to find without a lens though....?
Steve


Other options for what you're looking for include:

Angulon 210mm f/6.8 in a Copal 3
Symmar 300mm f/5.6 (not S) in a Copal 3
Tele-Xenar 360mm f/5.5 in a Copal 3

[MAubrey]

Thanks for that info, I will keep an eye open. Probably tough to find without a lens though....?
Steve

Yeah, and in some cases, it would probably be cheaper with the lens. Copal 3's alone tend to go for more money than ones with old lenses most people don't want. The Symmar convertible 300mm f/5.6 is probably the best example of that.

[Smitty]

Could this be a Dagor type lens? What would that mean?

[Dan Fromm]

Could this be a Dagor type lens? What would that mean?

I take it you're asking about the 355 G-Claron you mentioned in the first post in this discussion.

Odds are against it being a dagor type. There have been extensive discussions about whether any Dagor type 355 G-Clarons were made. The consensus is that none were made, but I think -- I haven't been able to examine any of the likelies -- that in fact a few were made.

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AggQfcczvHGN0kIjB_63NhzCEsV5 gives directions for recognizing dagor type lenses. Follow the directions, and please tell us your lens' serial numbers and how many dim and bright reflections you see from a single cell.

The significance of a G-Claron being a dagor type? In practice, not much.

[Smitty]

On counting reflections.. never knowingly done this. How, what do I look for?

[Dan Fromm]

Remove either cell from the shutter. Shine a bright light at it. One light, not a cluster. Follow the link, follow the directions.