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seno
23-Dec-2019, 00:41
Hello.

I am newbie and planning an ULF 16x20, with the lens Goertz red dot 24in lens.
How long should the bellows be for the lens in that camera? I want to know the min and max(if there is) length of the bellows.
Maybe I will want to use the camera for landscape with other lens, but I plan to use it for portrait.
Thanks in advance.

Jongin

Tin Can
23-Dec-2019, 00:55
At least double the lens focal length

In 6 hours more advice will show up

Depends if head only, head and shoulders, or full body

Good luck!

seno
23-Dec-2019, 08:15
Thank you, Tin!
Do you mean if I choose wider lens, say, 14in, the bellows needs to be longer than 28 inch?
And for 24in lens, it should be at least 48inch long?

Tin Can
23-Dec-2019, 08:27
You need to study a bit

Here is a free page on a pay for knowledge website.


How I Calculate Bellows Factors & Magnification Ratios For Large Format (https://www.timlaytonfineart.com/blog/2016/10/darkroom-daily-digest-how-i-calculate-bellows-factors-magnification-ratios)

There other free websites, but this was the first I found.

seno
23-Dec-2019, 11:07
You need to study a bit

Here is a free page on a pay for knowledge website.




How I Calculate Bellows Factors & Magnification Ratios For Large Format (https://www.timlaytonfineart.com/blog/2016/10/darkroom-daily-digest-how-i-calculate-bellows-factors-magnification-ratios)

There other free websites, but this was the first I found.

----
Thank you so much Tin!

Len Middleton
23-Dec-2019, 14:48
You will need to do some research, but there may remain some things you might not get from research.

Your research will tell you with a 24" non-telephoto lens and 48" off bellows you will be able to get image size of 1:1 (life size). What research is unlikely to tell you is depending upon what you are going to use a 16x20 camera for, that might may or may not be appropriate...

Similarly,you are not likely to find in your research of the potential issue of not being able to focus some wide angle lenses at infinity because you cannot compress the bellows enough....

Good luck in your efforts,

Len

Tin Can
23-Dec-2019, 15:00
Len, what wide angle lens are you thinking of?

Usually we want a 'normal' lens that has a focal length matching the format diagonal.

OP stipulated a lens that meets that

Of course there are exceptions

OP consider this thread https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/looking-for-lens-with-16x20-coverage.138825/


You will need to do some research, but there may remain some things you might not get from research.

Your research will tell you with a 24" non-telephoto lens and 48" off bellows you will be able to get image size of 1:1 (life size). What research is unlikely to tell you is depending upon what you are going to use a 16x20 camera for, that might may or may not be appropriate...

Similarly,you are not likely to find in your research of the potential issue of not being able to focus some wide angle lenses at infinity because you cannot compress the bellows enough....

Good luck in your efforts,

Len

Len Middleton
23-Dec-2019, 15:54
Randy,

In post #3 above, he did ask a question about a 14" WA lens. The common ULF 14" WA lens I can think of is the 355 G-Claron.

I know on my 8x10 field camera with 32" bellows length that I know I have to put the camera into major contortions to focus a 165 Angulon at infinity, in part due to bellows compression and also due to the closest distance between the front and rear standard that they can come together. I can do it, but was not the way I originally thought.

One of those things you find out about not by research, but by trying to do, aka the School of Hard Knocks. I expect we have a large number of alumni members here...

My experience on the issue, and no research performed for that knowledge, :cool:

Len

Tin Can
23-Dec-2019, 16:06
Of course, but a 14" WA is far from a 165mm Angulon. I have one. I also have set of 16X16" bellows with 40" of easy extension, that folds down to under 2". Custom Bellows UK, made them. They are for a 14X16" camera using 14X17" X-Ray film holders, which don't use the entire 17" of film available normally.

Cameras vary...

By the way, 'TIN CAN COLLEGE' is The School of Hard Knocks and everyone is an alumnus.

Now it's up to the OP

Happy Holidays everyone!


Randy,

In post #3 above, he did ask a question about a 14" WA lens. The common ULF 14" WA lens I can think of is the 355 G-Claron.

I know on my 8x10 field camera with 32" bellows length that I know I have to put the camera into major contortions to focus a 165 Angulon at infinity, in part due to bellows compression and also due to the closest distance between the front and rear standard that they can come together. I can do it, but was not the way I originally thought.

One of those things you find out about not by research, but by trying to do, aka the School of Hard Knocks. I expect we have a large number of alumni members here...

My experience on the issue, and no research performed for that knowledge, :cool:

Len

DolphinDan
23-Dec-2019, 19:23
I have a Richard Ritter 16x20 camera and could barely focus a Nikon NIKKOR-W 360mm f6.5 lens at roughly 8 feet (I was photographing a Sycamore tree in tight quarters). The bellows barely compressed enough for me to focus the lens. And the lens vignetted on the negative.

I have not tried my 355mm G-CLARON on the 16x20 , but I am skeptical it will focus at infinity...

Daniel

William Whitaker
23-Dec-2019, 19:40
Hello.

I am newbie and planning an ULF 16x20

It seems to me that there is something completely incongruous about this statement.

Why don't you start with something smaller before going into the deep end?

Len Middleton
23-Dec-2019, 20:09
It seems to me that there is something completely incongruous about this statement.

Why don't you start with something smaller before going into the deep end?

William,

I presume to be clear you mean cheaper with a less expensive learning curve....

Was wondering the same, but wanted to address is technical questions first,

Len

Len Middleton
23-Dec-2019, 20:19
Of course, but a 14" WA is far from a 165mm Angulon. I have one. I also have set of 16X16" bellows with 40" of easy extension, that folds down to under 2". Custom Bellows UK, made them. They are for a 14X16" camera using 14X17" X-Ray film holders, which don't use the entire 17" of film available normally.

Cameras vary...

By the way, 'TIN CAN COLLEGE' is The School of Hard Knocks and everyone is an alumnus.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Randy,

Not just cameras vary, but so do non-original bellows. My non-original bellows on the 8x10 are relatively thick compared to the UK Custom Bellows on the 8x20.

I do not recognize "Tin Can College" as a common term in reference to the School of Hard Knocks in Canada nor my travels in the USA. Is that a Chicago related reference?

I do expect however given the demographics of this this forum, especially in this area of the forum, many are distinguished and well accomplished alumni members...

And I concur, Seasons Greeting to all and best wishes for the New Year,

Len

William Whitaker
23-Dec-2019, 20:22
And I don't mean to rain on the OP's parade.
Or maybe I do...
But success at the larger ULF formats is very demanding in so many ways.
The progression is very non-linear. And there are so many details to keep track of
I just really hate to see someone get frustrated and possibly lose interest and quit photography because they fell victim to the romance of the formats.
I believe I speak at least partially from experience. But I haven't quit yet. Not quite.

MAubrey
23-Dec-2019, 21:29
[QUOTE=William Whitaker;1529636]
The progression is very non-linear. And there are so many details to keep track of/QUOTE]

Having maybe too quickly moved from 4x5 to 11x14, I'll second this statement. It's a multi-year learning curve when you jump to ultra large formats.

seno
23-Dec-2019, 22:13
Thank everybody for all your kind advice. I know I am in a rush, with more passion than experience and knowledge. I will report my progress for my project.
Thank you again.

Jongin

Tin Can
24-Dec-2019, 00:48
Nothing is impossible

Good luck!

Tin Can
24-Dec-2019, 06:05
Old thread

I need a sharp normal lens for 16x20 landscapes... (https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/i-need-a-sharp-normal-lens-for-16x20-landscapes.118494/)

Tin Can
24-Dec-2019, 06:15
Not me

I Built Myself a 1620-Inch Camera in 10 Hours (https://petapixel.com/2016/01/19/i-built-myself-a-16x20-inch-camera-in-10-hours/)

Tin Can
24-Dec-2019, 06:16
RICHARD T RITTER
LARGE FORMAT CAMERA
DESIGN / MODIFICATION / REPAIR

16X20 Camera Specs (https://www.lg4mat.net/1620.html)

Tin Can
24-Dec-2019, 06:18
16x20 Camera+lens? (https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/16x20-camera-lens.268950/)

Tin Can
24-Dec-2019, 06:21
BIG & AFFORDABLE (http://re-inventedphotoequip.com/Formats.html)

Tin Can
24-Dec-2019, 06:41
Monty McCutchen wrote

Re: Need Advice on 16x20 cameras and film from owners/users (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?155090-Need-Advice-on-16x20-cameras-and-film-from-owners-users&p=1524475&viewfull=1#post1524475)

Andrew Plume
24-Dec-2019, 06:47
Some really good links that you've posted Randy

rgds

Andrew