Questions about 4x5 film developed by local lab

[nduvoisin]

Hi,

I’m new to both large format photography and film photography. I used a Toyo 45AIIL with a Rodenstock 150mm f/5.6 lens (stopped down to f/16) to take 16 photos in Florida. I used new Fidelity Elite 4x5 film holders with Ilford Delta 100 film. I did not use a dark cloth. After taking the photos, I took the film (still in the film holders) to a local lab to have them processed. I scanned in the developed negatives on a Epson V800 and was surprised at the results (they were worse than I would have expected). I have several questions about the different defects I noticed:

1. There seems to be a vertical light leak in some of the images opposite of the notched side of the film (see 4x5_002a for a good example). Is this from not using a dark cloth or just poor technique when taking out or inserting the dark slides?

2. Some of the films seem to have an uneven exposure across them (see 4x5_012a for a good example). Is this from improper developing technique? I read somewhere that this can be due to not enough agitation.

3. On some of the negatives there seems to be many fine granules (see the bottom right of 4x5_002a for a good example). What is this typically due to?

4. What is the large white spot in the lower right of all the images from (about 1/5 of the way in and up)?

5. It looks like there’s a lot of dust on the film in general, is that typical of sheet film?

6. What is the diagonal line in the upper left corner of 4x5_005a from?

7. A couple images look foggy (4x5_007a for example). Is that because they weren’t developed properly, or is that just from scanning incorrectly?

I think the most important question is whether or not I should use another lab in the future. I know that some of the above defects could be wholly or partly due to me, but others seem like developing issues (like uneven exposure, granules, and the diagonal line). So I'm leaning towards trying another lab. In the future, I would like to develop my own film, but for now I want to focus on just learning to use a field camera properly.

Here’s a link to the pictures:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13NpyhWL4fGhzPkeYijHSUkdsHT-9HMoy?usp=sharing

Nick

[Two23]

I always make sure the slots on the film holder (dark slide slots) point away from the sun if possible. I also tend to cover the slots either with dark cloth or reinsert slide back in a quarter inch or so. Some of your other issues might be flare from shooting the sun.


Kent in SD

[Merg Ross]

Nick, it is good practice to cover the film holder with a dark cloth at all times, as Kent notes. From a cursory look at the exposures, it appears that there may be some uneven development issues. Dust is always a problem with large format, another reason to use a dark cloth.

I note that you are new to the forum. Welcome, and do not become discouraged! There is a lot to learn, and you will find some very sound advice visiting here.

[Andrew Plume]

Hi Nick

When I first started with LF (4 x 5)) the Camera Shop Owner (the late (and much respected) Robert White) said ".......you will make mistakes......." when starting. That was very sound advice then and even now (20 years on).........

Lab wise, https://www.4photolab.com/ seem very popular and reliable

Good luck with your new pursuit

regards

Andrew

[koraks]

Given the fog in the rebate area of some negatives and the diagonal lines, the first question I'd have is how you loaded the film. A perfectly dark room? Changing bag? Make sure absolutely no light can reach the film when loading it.
Provided your film holders and camera are in good order, the use of a dark cloth won't make a difference.
And none of this makes me think initially of a processing defect. Odds are you made a mistake somewhere; iron out your work flow first and then see how much the development leaves to be desired.

[Two23]

Given the fog in the rebate area of some negatives and the diagonal lines, the first question I'd have is how you loaded the film. A perfectly dark room? Changing bag? Make sure absolutely no light can reach the film when loading it.
Provided your film holders and camera are in good order, the use of a dark cloth won't make a difference.
And none of this makes me think initially of a processing defect. Odds are you made a mistake somewhere; iron out your work flow first and then see how much the development leaves to be desired.



I use an interior bathroom with no windows, at night. Lights are off in adjacent room. I stuff a towel under the door to block any stray light from the adjacent room as well.


Kent in SD

[Andrew Plume]

And that's my approach too

Andrew

[koraks]

Initially I made do with a changing bag, but some kind of darkroom (however small or improvised) is an incredible improvement. Just as long as it's really dark!

[jp]

White dust happens when scanning. Black dust is on the film at the time of exposure (such as dirty film holders or dirty camera interior)
The streak on the left half an inch in could be from light sneaking in when removing or inserting the darkslide in the camera such as if the spring back is not tight. Hold the camera back tight while removing or inserting the darkslide. I've never had a problem with sun leaking into the back aside from that.
It looks like some unevenness to the developing as well, such as in 10a assuming things are otherwise properly exposed. Not a bad start; easy improvements to go forward.

[jp]

If you plan to keep using the lab, get your process as good as possible before complaining about uneven development. If you have a place to load film holders, you have what you need for space to load a developing tank such as the stearman or combiplan.

[Jim Michael]

White dust (negatives) can also be due to embedded dirt during development, in particular the drying stage. In a test of several labs a couple of years ago we had difficulty finding one that kept a clean facility. Most likely culprit is failure to maintain the filters in the dryer.

[Fred L]

you've got a number of issues here. the light leak might be from the holder not seated properly in the back. I always try to make sure the rib lock is engaged (should hear a click as the holder seats itself).

what is more worrisome to me are what I believe are uneven processing issues. having no light leaks or dust on the film won't matter much if the film shows these development streaks. as suggested, shoot some more to nail down your work flow, but I would also find out how the lab is processing the film. bring the film with you next time so they can see (which they should have regardless) and ask about what looks like uneven processing. I'd suggest not blaming them of poor processing (it puts them on their heels and defensive), but ask what it could be from. leave them an opening iow

good luck and in time things will get better, and even at that, there will be the occasional hiccups, which we all suffer now and then.

[Doremus Scudder]

You've got lots of good advice so far. Let me add my thoughts:

Almost all the defects you question are directly attributable to a light leak problem.

First, it would really help to see a scan of an entire negative, rebate included, to help diagnose the light leak problem you have. You can check yourself, however, too. If the light leak goes all the way to the edge of the film, i.e., is not stopped by the rails in the filmholder, then the problem is likely happening out-of-camera. If the rebates are clear, then start looking at your camera for leaks.

To me, it seems like the leaks all come from the bottom of the camera back, so start there. Check for proper seating of the back and filmholder, for missing or damaged light seals (flocking, fabric, etc. if your camera has that) and for warpage. Then insert a holder and check that it is seating properly. Also check the bellows attachment and the bellows itself in that area for leaks. A light source inside the camera in a darkened room helps find leaks.

It seems unlikely that so many different filmholders would have light-leak problems, but examine them as well.

And yes, you may be causing the leak when inserting or pulling the darkslide. Always clamp the spring back to the camera body with your free hand when pulling/inserting slides to prevent this. Still, I'm putting my money on a leak at the bottom of the camera near the back. Don't neglect to examine the rest of the camera and bellows for leaks, however, since you may have more than one or the offending leak may not be where I've guessed.

Best,

Doremus

[Luis-F-S]

Hi,

I did not use a dark cloth. I have several questions about the different defects I noticed:

1. There seems to be a vertical light leak in some of the images opposite of the notched side of the film (see 4x5_002a for a good example). Is this from not using a dark cloth or just poor technique when taking out or inserting the dark slides?

2. Some of the films seem to have an uneven exposure across them (see 4x5_012a for a good example). Is this from improper developing technique? I read somewhere that this can be due to not enough agitation.

3. On some of the negatives there seems to be many fine granules (see the bottom right of 4x5_002a for a good example). What is this typically due to?

4. What is the large white spot in the lower right of all the images from (about 1/5 of the way in and up)?

5. It looks like there’s a lot of dust on the film in general, is that typical of sheet film?

6. What is the diagonal line in the upper left corner of 4x5_005a from?

7. A couple images look foggy (4x5_007a for example). Is that because they weren’t developed properly, or is that just from scanning incorrectly?

I think the most important question is whether or not I should use another lab in the future. I know that some of the above defects could be wholly or partly due to me, but others seem like developing issues (like uneven exposure, granules, and the diagonal line). So I'm leaning towards trying another lab. In the future, I would like to develop my own film, but for now I want to focus on just learning to use a field camera properly.

Nick

The camera/lens combo is immaterial. Like Doremus said, You need to determine if the leak is in or out of camera. I would load the holders with photographic paper and have out in bright light and develop to see if the leak is in the holder. If not, you may want to use a dark cloth (I've never used a view camera without one) and cover the back while you insert the holder and pull out the dark slide. As has been mentioned, make sure the holder seats in the groove.

Where do you live. It would probably be worthwhile to work with a LFF member who's done this before and can help you out of your quandry.

[Robert Opheim]

I would think that camera flair could be contributing. It looks like you were shooting directly into the sun - did you use a polarizer filter and a lens hood? direct flair can cause the sort of issues that you are having. I have also had the film exposed while the slide is removed (without covering it with a dark-cloth). Could the white spot on the scan be caused by dirt on the scanner glass?

[Jeroen]

Have you tested the camera bellows for light leaks?

[Keith Pitman]

A few things to control dust on your film: 1. I clean my holders before each loading with a canister vacuum cleaner. Use the crevice tool which creates a lot of suction. Clean the counter you are working on with the vacuum and/or a damp sponge. Don't lay your now clean holders down on the counter; stand them on edge so they don't attract dust. 2. After loading, put your holders in plastic bags to help reduce the possibility of attracting dust in your pack or bag. If you reuse the bags as I do, wash them between uses.

As others have said, keep at it. There is a lot to learn about film and large format. You'll build on each step.

[John Kasaian]

Another issue to beware of is the light bulbs in your WC/darkroom.
Incandescent bulbs go on and off, while the gov't mandated replacements take their own sweet time turning "off"completely.
I find it takes a minute +/- before my light fixture is safely "off" enough to chance opening a box of film or photo paper.
Close your eyes a bit to get the pupils open, flip the switch off and stare at your light fixture---it'll glow for quite awhile.