8x10 tray processing

[Jose Marques]

I am new on 8x10. I want to do the procese in trays. 1 by 1 sheet. The question is if I can process more that 1 sheet with the same developer. If that's the case , do I have to change time developing?
Thank you very much

[Two23]

Developer is usually rated as so many square inches of film per ML. I use HC-110 and know it can do about 80 sq. inches with 500 ml of developer. That breaks down to four sheets of 4x5 for me.


Kent in SD

[David Schaller]

I’ve done two sheets at a time in one liter of working solution with Pyrocat HD and D76. I would think you could do a second sheet after the first if you didn’t wait too long.

[Drew Wiley]

???? ... I have no problem tray dev 6 or more sheets of 8x10 per liter any number of dev options: pyro, HC-110, 76, etc. And I'm talking even about extremely fussy predictable applications like separation negs, densitometer measured. But that's shuffle dev all at the same time. Once that's learned, I don't get the point of only one at a time. That's just looking for a downhill result.

[Vaughn]

I am new on 8x10. I want to do the procese in trays. 1 by 1 sheet. The question is if I can process more that 1 sheet with the same developer. If that's the case , do I have to change time developing?
Thank you very much

The technical sheet for each film (and many developers) will give you this information. generally, if you do one at a time (a good way to learn about the effects of developing times/temp), you will increase your development time with the next sheet . Reading the tech sheet for D-76, for example, they do not recommending using the developer a second time if it was used diluted 1:1. Using D-76 straight, it will develop four 8x10's per liter. If done one at a time, one needs to increase development time by 15% after every sheet of 8x10.

This is what we did at the university when processing four 4x5s at a time in racks in a liter of straight D-76. The liter will process 16 sheets of 4x5, and after developing 4 sheets, we increased the time for the next four sheets by 10 to 15%.

If you develop four sheets at one time in a fresh liter of D-76, you may need to add a little time compared to doing only one sheet in a fresh liter. Drew -- any feedback on that?

[Greg]

One thing to consider it the type of trays to use. I use 2 types: Kodak Duraflex which have totally flat bottoms and Paterson trays which have shallow troughs running along the bottom of the tray. With the Patterson trays, it is easier to put your fingers under the film. I started out using Patterson trays in the 1970s but then over years have come to prefer the flat bottom Kodak trays. When I started out to process 8x10 film, I would one single sheet at a time. When I was comfortable with tray processing 8x10 film, I went to processing 2 sheets at a time. Once comfortable with processing 2 sheets at a time, I found that I could easily process 6 sheets at a time, but it took me probably processing 50 sheets to to get to that point. I have never had a problem with scratches on conventional film. As for X-Ray film, can't say the same... Personally like to use developers or dilute them to have my processing times between 10 to 20 minutes.

[Kodak]

A little late input on this topic and also new in tray processing.
I received the Stearman sp-810 tray and today processed my first test films, 2 pieces of 5x7 Foma 100.
During the development I gently moved continuously the tray.
Is this the correct way or should it be done with interrupts like in a small tank ( every 30 sec)?

Thanks for advices

[ericantonio]

Err on less sheets per liter. You can't go back and reshoot that sunset, or whatever. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. But I would err on less. Developer is cheap compared to sheet film prices and the price you pay in time to get that 1 shot.

[Jim Noel]

I am new on 8x10. I want to do the procese in trays. 1 by 1 sheet. The question is if I can process more that 1 sheet with the same developer. If that's the case , do I have to change time developing?
Thank you very much

If you process 2 or more sheets at a time, you need to increase the amount of developer concentrate likewise.
I would advise you to begin with single sheets, then when comfortable, go to 2 sheets, etc.
Use at least 11x14" trays to help eliminate problems of streaks and over development of edges.
Most people find that even with experience 4-6 sheets is the maximum number with which they are comfortable. More than that and they become unwieldy and the quantity of developer becomes overly large.

[Jim Noel]

A little late input on this topic and also new in tray processing.
I received the Stearman sp-810 tray and today processed my first test films, 2 pieces of 5x7 Foma 100.
During the development I gently moved continuously the tray.
Is this the correct way or should it be done with interrupts like in a small tank ( every 30 sec)?

Thanks for advices

Most workers use intermittent agitation of one kind or another. I prefer so seconds continuous agitation at the start, then 5 seconds each 30 seconds for the rest of the time. Another common timing is one minute at the start, and then 10 seconds each minute.
I teach students to agitate by lifting alternate corners about 1-1.5 inches. Three corners takes 5 or 6 seconds. The next period of agitation begins with the corner which was not raised during the previous period.
ALthough I have tubes of all kinds, and a large Jobo with Expert tanks, trays are my preferred method.

[Tin Can]

Jim knows best!

[Michael Kadillak]

Agree with Drew but I find it depends upon the subject matter. If I have exposed negatives of skies and clouds and I am using an energetic developer like pyro I would both dilute the developer and cut the number of 8x10 sheets tray processed to 2-3 to ensure uniform sky densities. Otherwise I develop six sheets of 8x10 in a pebble bottomed 11x14 tray. Tray developing or brush developing one sheet at a time is an enormous allocation of darkroom time that any reasonably competent LF photographer would have trouble with from an efficiency perspective. Just my $0.02.

[Jim Noel]

Jim knows best!

Thanks, at least it works for me.

[Merg Ross]

When I hear such discussions, my thoughts are of Edward Weston and his technique. Prior to the mid 1920's he developed in open tanks with an MQ developer. After that time, he switched to single sheet tray development by inspection using Pyro. It worked for him.

[Kodak]

Most workers use intermittent agitation of one kind or another. I prefer so seconds continuous agitation at the start, then 5 seconds each 30 seconds for the rest of the time. Another common timing is one minute at the start, and then 10 seconds each minute.
I teach students to agitate by lifting alternate corners about 1-1.5 inches. Three corners takes 5 or 6 seconds. The next period of agitation begins with the corner which was not raised during the previous period.
ALthough I have tubes of all kinds, and a large Jobo with Expert tanks, trays are my preferred method.

Thank you, Jim.

Yesterday when I did this continuous agitation, (D76 13 min. 23C) it felt very relaxing, so not bad at all :)
I was just wondering if the processing time needs to be adjusted because of this continuous agitation.

[Vaughn]

Hans, I would base that on the results you are getting at 13 minutes. If the contrast is a bit high, then that is a sign that you might want to try 12 minutes perhaps. Generally, one decreases the time a little going from intermittent to constant agitation. Going to rotating drums (Expert Drum 3005, for example), a 15% reduction is recommended. Constant agitation in trays is not as active as a drum, so perhaps a 10% time reduction is a good starting point.

[Kodak]

Hans, I would base that on the results you are getting at 13 minutes. If the contrast is a bit high, then that is a sign that you might want to try 12 minutes perhaps. Generally, one decreases the time a little going from intermittent to constant agitation. Going to rotating drums (Expert Drum 3005, for example), a 15% reduction is recommended. Constant agitation in trays is not as active as a drum, so perhaps a 10% time reduction is a good starting point.

Well, the negatives I developed yesterday look a little more contrastly. I will check them tonight and see if adjustment is needed.

Thanks again :)

[John Layton]

Hey...if you want the best of both worlds (advantages of both individual development plus shuffling multiple films) try this: place your developer trays into a much larger tray (say...four 8x10's into one 20x24), then place individual "shuffle" trays before (pre-soak) and after this large tray for remaining steps. Large tray can either be lifted whole and rocked around to agitate all negatives at once, or smaller individual trays can be selectively agitated depending on individual negatives needs.

A couple of things: negatives are done face-up for all cycles, and one must, prior to implementing such a setup, do a "lights on" test with sacrificial (fresh) unexposed film, with sacrificial (fresh) developer, to allow fine-tuning of the specific amount of developer necessary to assure that films are always completely covered with developer during the entirety of the development cycle. Do not simply use water and/or already processed (reject) negatives for this test - as this will tell you nothing of the dynamic of developer and film during this cycle (as in bubbling causing film to float).

Nothing against shuffling...works great! I suggest the above as simply something to add to your toolbox - try it, you might like it!

[Drew Wiley]

I have a very specific shuffling technique. Each 30 sec the stack is rotated 90 degrees, so a different side is being held in the fingers each cycle, assuring edge to edge consistency. I also shuffle one more sheet per cycle than actually present, which means a different sheet is on the top each time. For example, if four sheets are in the tray, there will be five shuffles during that 30 sec cycle. Like Michael, I do 8x10 sheets in a 11X14 stainless dimple-bottomed tray, surrounded by a larger tray serving as a water temp jacket; for 4x5 film, I use stainless dimple-bottomed trays slightly larger than 5x7. For general use, a Zone VI comp dev timer fine-tunes the time. For really fussy use like matched color sep negatives, I use and expensive thermoregulator that keeps water temp constant within 1/10F. Film always face-up.