First Forey Into 8x10 Format/ Intrepid 8x10 Camera

[braxus]

New member here. I have been using a Graflex 4x5 camera since 2004 or earlier. I didn't often use it, but at times liked to take it out for landscapes or portraits. My Graflex is in need of repair, so its sitting right now. I am seeing a lot of old pictures from the 50s and was told they often used 8x10 view cameras for such pictures. I decided I'd like to get into 8x10, especially since its 4x the rez of 4x5 and its a huge jump up from any digital camera currently out there. Again I'd use it for landscapes, hikes, or portraits in or outdoors.

I was looking on Ebay and found a couple cameras used. First was a Calumet C1 and second was the Kodak 2D. Price varied from $600 US dollars to $800. But then I found out a new company making 8x10 field cameras with movements, and looked into them. They make the Intrepid 8x10 view camera and my price in Canadian dollars is only $702 with shipping from the UK. This camera only weighs 5 pounds and folds up nice and compact. Good for hikes. Is this camera decent enough to use and own? Or should I still go for the old models on Ebay at risk of faulty parts? Is the Intrepid rugged enough for everyday use?

I plan on getting some Lisco Regal film holders for this camera. Used of course. Lens of choice Im looking at the Fujinon 300mm f5.6 for most of my uses. The Fuji is currently mounted on a Toyo square board. Not sure if this board fits the Intrepid? I have a Fujinon 210mm I could adapt to use on this camera, as I also use it on my Graflex. Will my Graflex Speed Graphic boards mount to the Intrepid, with or without an adapter? My films of choice are Kodak Portra 160, Adox CHS II 100, Ilford Ortho 80, and Kodak TMAX 400.

[Peter De Smidt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKm1vJk3Xac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q98I5yMqmFk

[Vaughn]

I just cruised eBay for prices on 8x10 cameras. The market there seems quite high...which is healthy, but difficult for newcomers to 8x10.

If you do the research on users of the Intrepid 8x10 and find it them satisfactory, then it could be a good deal. I have never seen one to know how well it is built. I am using a 110 year old 5x7 camera (new bellows) that seems as sound as when it was made. It lacks front movements beyond rise/fall, but still is sweet. My 8x10 is a Zone VI. A little on the heavy side, has a couple of design weak points, but over-all I have been very pleased with it over the last 25 years. Getting a decent deal on a used 8x10 would be a good idea -- it lets you check out its featured, pros and cons, etc. And you should be able to sell it close to your buying price. An old well-made camera with sound bellows would be sweet.

My lens for the 8x10 has been the Fuji W 300/5.6, tho I recently added a FujiW 250/6.7, which sees a lot of use. I like the 300...its a 'wide normal' and at f/5.6, easy to use in darker situations such as under the redwoods. If your Fuji is an inside-lettered 210mm, then it will just cover 8x10, I believe. I have a Graphic Raptar 210/6.3 that I can use with the 8x10 (barrel, no shutter). For longer lenses I use a 19" and a 24" Red Dot Artar lenses (barrel). My Zone IV has a 28" (27"?) bellows draw so can handle them.

[John Kasaian]

Welcome aboard!
Sorry I don't know anything about the Intrepid. The C1, IIRC is a beast of a camera so generally not considered ideal for hiking very far from the car. The K2 has a very good reputation but they are old and aren't immune to old age so good condition is certainly advisable unless you're up for a "project" One nice thing about the K2 is the large lens board---offering lots of room for experimenting with old brass lenses
I don't shoot color 8x10(too rich for my blood!) But I really like Ilford Ortho 80 and as for Kodak TMAX 400 ---it is certainly excellent---but I shoot more Ilford HP-5 than anything else

[Peter De Smidt]

You can get older, better built cameras cheaper, but you may have to do some refurbishing, which takes some skill and tools. For instance, I bought an Agfa 8x10 from the 1950s not that long ago for a couple of hundred dollars, but one of the screws for holding the extension is broken, and the tripod mounting fixtures need to be re-done.... That said, the wood used is likely to be high quality, and the cameras were generally well-made.

Intrepids are pretty good cameras, but I'm not convinced that the plywood will stay straight over time. I already see a bit of bowing on my back, which looks like due to the force of the springs. In addition, I just noticed that the back has swelled a bit, making switching from horizontal to vertical, and vice versa, a bit more challenging. On the other hand, the camera is really light.

For a bit more money, Gibellini has an interesting looking 8x10.

[Oren Grad]

Long-running thread about the 8x10 Intrepid here:

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?148295-Intrepid-8x10-experiences

[braxus]

My other option was a Kodak 2D. There's two for sale currently. How much do they weigh in comparison?

[Peter De Smidt]

No direct front tilt with a 2D. I don't have one anymore, and so I can't weigh it. They're quite light, and they're better built than an Intrepid.

[Oren Grad]

Back in the day, the Eastman Kodak catalog (check the 1934-35 edition on the Pierce Vaubel site) specified the weight of the 8x10 2D as 11 1/4 lb - not particularly light. Particular samples may be a bit more or less than that depending on what's been done to them over the many years since they were made.

[Roger Thoms]

Back in the day, the Eastman Kodak catalog (check the 1934-35 edition on the Pierce Vaubel site) specified the weight of the 8x10 2D as 11 1/4 lb - not particularly light. Particular samples may be a bit more or less than that depending on what's been done to them over the many years since they were made.

I'll weigh mine tomorrow, it's definitely lighter than that.

Roger

[Peter De Smidt]

There's a tripod plate with a 2D, which you don't have to use if light weight is a priority.

[Oren Grad]

I'll weigh mine tomorrow, it's definitely lighter than that.

Thanks, that will be good - catalog specification is not always exact.

[neil poulsen]

I had a 2D 8x10 for a while. It was a nice looking camera. I don't know if this is typical of Kodak 2D cameras, but the bellows was such that with any significant rise, the top of the bellows obscured the image area. With proper disclosure, I sold it.

Given their somewhat large lens boards, I've seen lensboard attachments that provide front tilt.

[Oslolens]

I had a look at a new Intrepid 8x10". Looking nice, but for me the lack of bail arm is a no go. Maybe one stainless steel can be copied from my Wehman camera and put in afterwards. I intend to look into this.

Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

[Alan9940]

I have the Intrepid 8x10 Mark I. It's an okay camera, but you have to keep in mind what it is; basically, a very inexpensive, lightweight camera that's kind of rough around the edges. Each time I set my camera up, I have to use a triangle to ensure the back and front standards are perpendicular to the base. When the front standard is set correctly, it is not parallel to the side structs which makes it impossible to visually set it in good vertical alignment. The controls are not particularly smooth and cannot be locked down enough to totally avoid movements. The overall finish is what I'd call "unfinished furniture." The groundglass is mediocre.

All that said, the camera does exactly what I need it to do. That is, it allows this old geezer to still hike some decent distance with 8x10. My Deardorff is a much more finely crafted and easier to use camera, but that sucker is heavy! Therefore, even with the somewhat negative comments above I do enjoy using the Intrepid 8x10; and it's my understanding that the newer version 2 solves many of the issues with the original Kickstarter model.

[paulbarden]

I have the late 2017 Intrepid 8x10. It’s not particularly well built and I don’t expect it to last for long. It doesn’t lock down tightly, the bungee cord back is sloppy and hard to work with. The plywood components are starting to warp. You can’t put a heavy lens on the front, and the 3D printed lens boards Intrepid sells warp badly over time, making them unusable. If you order one, expect it to take six months longer than Intrepid says it will take to deliver it.
Other than that, it’s nice and light, easy to set up, and inexpensive. But given its flaws, I would opt for a Kodak 2D as a better choice.

[Jim Jones]

My 2D weighs 12 lbs 6 oz with the tripod plate. The tripod plate alone weighs 13 oz, but the camera balances better on a tripod with it.

[tim48v]

There's a reason Ansel had a pack mule when shooting 8x10! Frankly, the weight of the camera is minor compared to all the other stuff you'll have to carry. Heck, my tripod weighs more than my Calumet (I have the magnesium version.)

The Calumets are underrated in my option. They are really solid and smooth cameras. More movements than you'll ever need. Insane bellows length (32"?) The only thing I dislike is the "film plane" focusing (the film plane moves, not the lens plane.)

[Roger Thoms]

Back in the day, the Eastman Kodak catalog (check the 1934-35 edition on the Pierce Vaubel site) specified the weight of the 8x10 2D as 11 1/4 lb - not particularly light. Particular samples may be a bit more or less than that depending on what's been done to them over the many years since they were made.


I'll weigh mine tomorrow, it's definitely lighter than that.

Roger

Ok, I had a chance to weigh mine this evening. Wow, I really though it was lighter than it is. My 810 2D with a lens board weighs 10 lbs - 9.5 oz, add the extension rail which I always keep in the backpack and it's 11 lbs - 14 oz, and with the sliding tripod block which I never carry it's 12 lbs - 12 oz. So mine is actually a little heavier than the catalog weight. Hopefully I can happily go back to thinking it's lighter than it really is.

Roger

[Two23]

I've found that camera gear starts gaining weight as the altitude you're hiking increases.


Kent in SD

[braxus]

I have been offered an Agfa Ansco 8x10 camera for sale by someone. I know this camera isn't as light, but at least its well built. Is this a good option for me? Any info on this camera would be appreciated. I don't know what range of lenses I can use on the Ansco. I think I saw this camera might be 12 pounds, which is about the same as the Kodak 2D.

[Peter De Smidt]

There are two of them. One has longer bellows than the other. Pre-WWII ones had a tripod block, but the ones after don't. They are good, solid cameras. I'm currently restoring one of these.

[Pere Casals]

C1

Yousuf Karsh used one, he made the US presidential photographs from Eisenhower to Bush father, so it was the "Camera ONE" in fact :)


Today C. Burkett uses one: Min 4:12 >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doNGi8HeKQ4&t=703s , The C1 looks nice with that APO Tele-Xenar 800, but they are two people transporting the piece of gear !

[John Kasaian]

I have been offered an Agfa Ansco 8x10 camera for sale by someone. I know this camera isn't as light, but at least its well built. Is this a good option for me? Any info on this camera would be appreciated. I don't know what range of lenses I can use on the Ansco. I think I saw this camera might be 12 pounds, which is about the same as the Kodak 2D.

Ansel Adams used an Agfa Ansco Universal to good effect in Yosemite. Lens can usually fit between the rails when folded so it can be carried with the lens in situ.
I have a 5x7 version of this camera and they are very well built, but there are different versions. The Universal has longer bellows and greater tilt available, IIRC.
My 5x7 has a 5+" lens board so I'd guess the 8x10 has at least a 6"(many wooden US 8x10s at the time conformed to Kodak's 6" square lens board.
Others here will be better able to confirm or deny this.

[braxus]

Well I'll be paying for my Ansco come this next Saturday, and should have it by months end, depending on Xmas mail service. I will see if my two Fujinon lenses can be used or if I'll have to get something different. Then its on to getting film holders, film, a larger change bag, a new Epson V850 scanner, and later another lens. This sure adds up, but Im hoping the kit will be complete when done. I'm also getting the 5x7 back with the camera, so I have that option too. I'll need 5x7 holders for that too. Gas anyone?

[braxus]

Camera is on its way. I should have it by January 2nd.

[braxus]

I received the camera today! It came in undamaged condition and it all looks as it should. Next step is to get the 5x7 back next month. Then later the accessories needed.

[John Kasaian]

Congratulations!
You should be able to find film holders and other stuff on the FS forum after you've been here 30 days.

[braxus]

I tried to post pictures on this thread, but it wouldn't upload them to the site. Hence no pics.

Anyway my model is the USA later version of Ansco 8x10. Where on the camera do I find the serial number? The name plate doesn't show it on it, and I can't see where else to look for it.

[axs810]

There's a reason Ansel had a pack mule when shooting 8x10! Frankly, the weight of the camera is minor compared to all the other stuff you'll have to carry. Heck, my tripod weighs more than my Calumet (I have the magnesium version.)

The Calumets are underrated in my option. They are really solid and smooth cameras. More movements than you'll ever need. Insane bellows length (32"?) The only thing I dislike is the "film plane" focusing (the film plane moves, not the lens plane.)


I've always focused with the film plane but is there a benefit from focusing with the lens plane?

[John Kasaian]

I've always focused with the film plane but is there a benefit from focusing with the lens plane?

I've always focused with the lens plane too.

[braxus]

I think I found the serial number. It is a really low number, which tells me not many of this model were made.

[Ethan]

I've always focused with the film plane but is there a benefit from focusing with the lens plane?

My thinking is that because the lens plane weighs less, by focusing with it I don’t off balance the camera as much. That said, I’ve never had issues with the camera wobbling or anything when focusing with the film plane, so there might not be any real difference

[Ethan]

I received the camera today! It came in undamaged condition and it all looks as it should. Next step is to get the 5x7 back next month. Then later the accessories needed.

Have you made sure the bellows are in good condition? I bought my first 8x10 earlier this year, and found while searching that the bellows can often have issues even if they don’t appear to at first. Luckily making new bellows doesn’t require any specialized tools if they are needed.

[John Kasaian]

Have you made sure the bellows are in good condition? I bought my first 8x10 earlier this year, and found while searching that the bellows can often have issues even if they don’t appear to at first. Luckily making new bellows doesn’t require any specialized tools if they are needed.

Put your camera in a darkened room with the bellows fully run out and shine a flashlight inside, inspecting the bellows for pinholes in the corners. Close up any pinholes with liquid electrical insulation or handle dip, and leave out overnight to dry before folding the bellows.

That ought to take care of things.

[Fred L]

iirc, focusing with the film plane changes the size of the subject. lens plane focusing less so, if at all. If I wanted to change the composition slightly, I would adjust it by racking the film plane in or out. For subtle changes, it beat nudging the tripod and camera a couple of inches.

[braxus]

I checked the bellows today. I couldn't see any light leaks with it, and the bellows is a fairly thick material. So it seems I'm okay. Im also getting the 5x7 back in the near future, so Im working on that too. I see a store in California has some 5x7 Portra in a 50 sheet box for sale. I might grab some of that next month.

[BradS]

the problem with focusing the lens plane can be that the object distance and the image distance are both changing simultaneously. As far as I can tell, this is really only an issue when trying to work close up.

[C. D. Keth]

the problem with focusing the lens plane can be that the object distance and the image distance are both changing simultaneously. As far as I can tell, this is really only an issue when trying to work close up.

That's exactly right. You'll never notice the difference at distances measured in feet. Close-up, like tabletop, focusing with the lens standard you will chase yourself in circles focusing, reframing, refocusing, etc.

[LabRat]

Focusing the back negates many problems when up very close, as front focusing changes the lens to subject distance and changes different optic relationships that screw up even simple focus changes... Actually leaving the focus locked on both stages is better, and using a focusing rail under camera that moves the entire camera back and forth is best to tune final focus up close...

And what's best about rear focus on a big camera is the focus knob is in the rear, so much easier to turn right in front of you (especially under a darkcloth) than stretching to find the focus knob up front... ;-)

Steve K

[braxus]

Well I managed to get some film holders for the camera. I still need to get a 300mm lens yet. But I have an adapter to use my 4x5 lenses on the camera, if they work on it. I managed to get a couple boxes of B&W 8x10 film. Stuff was expensive due to being hard to get film (expired as well). My other needs are some safety bags, 300mm lens, the 5x7 back, an Epson scanner, and a couple more boxes of film (C41 and more B&W). This is all still slow going. Might be end of year before I get my first shot on the camera. Camera looks to be in good shape though. I also got a carbon fibre 055 Manfrotto, since its more lightweight to carry then my aluminum one I have.

[jmdavis]

Why dont you try using your 4x5 lenses with some cheap B&w film? Reading something 10 times isn't as good as doing it once and doing it 10 times is more than 10 times better than doing it once. You don't even need film to see what coverage you are getting. A bright day, a dark cloth and maybe a loupe or readers are all you need. You will need to stop the lens down to get maximum coverage. My experience is that there was a learning curve moving from 4x5 to 8x10. I didn't shoot 5x7 until later. It's not harder but it is different and it takes practice.

Inventory what you have and figure out a way to learn with it NOW. You will be far better off if you do.

[Luis-F-S]

You don't even need film, you can use enlarging paper in the holders and make paper negatives which will show you the coverage. L

[John Kasaian]

Which 4x5 lenses do you have? Not many, but some will cover 8x10 adequately with minimal wiggle room, when stopped down