PQ Universal for HP5+ and/or Pan F+

[pkr1979]

Hi there,

Did anyone use PQ Universal for HP5+ and/or Pan F+? If so, what was your dilution, temp and time? And overall experience? :-)

Cheers
Peter

[Vaughn]

Sorry, I have not -- I have used it only with sheet film (FP4+, Tri-x, a few others). Ilford does not recommend it for roll film, probably so people won't complain about the grain.

I use it 1:9 to boost contrast for alternative printing...seems to be very nice with FP4+, which is my main film. I could not get HP5+ to expand as easily as the FP4+, if that is a concern. Ilford recommends FP4 and HP5 when used at box speed and developed at 1:9, 4 minutes (68F). If the SBR is only 5 or 6 stops, I'll bake mine for 8 to 10 minutes at 72F (74 if the room is colder...temp drift) -- not recommended for scanning or silver printing.

I had students in two workshops in the last two weeks use the above combo for negatives we then printed in carbon. We got a wonderful tonality on a blocked-up looking highlight, but not the kind of negative one wants for any other process. So a lot depends on the process you will be printing with and what you want your prints to look like, YMMD.

PS -- I developed a student's 4x5s for him from our field trip -- he thought he had ASA 125 -- he had Tri-X 320. So...over-exposed and about 100% more development given (3006 Expert drum). We still got a fine print from one we tried and close with another...print exposures were a bit long.

[Pere Casals]

Ilford recommends FP4 and HP5 when used at box speed and developed at 1:9, 4 minutes (68F).

Vaughn, this should be 1:19 , I guess

https://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=&Developer=%25PQ+Universal%25&mdc=Search&TempUnits=C&TimeUnits=D


I used it for reversal processing to obtain BW slides, when following ilford reversal recipe: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/reversal-processing/

________________

About grain, PQ contains Sodium Sulphite (https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/PQ-Universal-Paper-Developer-EN-H17-44-10027.pdf) like many fine grain developers...

My guess is that as development time is so short then the solvent action is lower because there is not time enough for the sulphite to make the the work on grains, if one wants finer grain then a possibility would be lowering concentration (beyond 1:19) to extend development time and adding more sulphite to keep the same sulphite concentration than at 1:19 regular dilution.

PQ is an interesting developer, if one likes Rock&Roll !

[Vaughn]

Nope -- 1:9

Aye, that's the danger -- the figures are for reaching a target density range. The Ilford tech sheet puts these figures for a target of 0.80 Gbar, whatever the hell a Gbar is.

If you use 1:19, then your target is a Gbar of 0.62, again, whatever the hell is a Gbar.

I am looking for a Density Range of 2.8, give or take a few tenths of whatever unit a DR is. Exposing and developing this way gets me great prints whatever the units are or what one calls them.

But in the end, I prefer PyrocatHD, but I did not want to mess with it on workshops. The PQ is in a easy liquid concentrate; 100ml PQ and 900ml water, mixed and into the Jobo 3005

[Pere Casals]

Nope -- 1:9 If you use 1:19, then your target is a Gbar of 0.62, again, whatever the hell is a Gbar.

Vaughn 0.62 should be normal contrast, 0.8/1.3 = 0.62 aproximated, GBar IIRC is "Average Gradient", so Contrast Index averaged in the considered exposure interval.

197201

So for a N development it should be used 1:19 if 4min development, of course if alterneative printing requires more contrast then 1:9 may be ok, but 1:9 - 4min would deliver a high contrast negative for silver prints.

[Jim Noel]

Pere - Vaughn indicated was talking about negatives for CARBON prints, not silver.

[Pere Casals]

Pere - Vaughn indicated was talking about negatives for CARBON prints, not silver.

Jim, yes...

I guess that the right answer to OP is 1:19 / 4min for Normal contrast, but 1:9 if he wants higher than normal contrast.

It's nice to see that Vaughn is using PQ to make negatives for carbon printing, it's a process that I want to learn. I want to avoid digital negatives...

[Mark Sampson]

My experience with other 'universal' developers is that they don't do film very well. Compared to film-specific developers, sharpness is likely to suffer, and graininess will likely increase.
I have no experience with the Ilford product, though. I would shoot some test rolls, and process them using Ilford's recommendations for your films. And then share your results with us!

[Vaughn]

Vaughn 0.62 should be normal contrast, 0.8/1.3 = 0.62 aproximated, GBar IIRC is "Average Gradient", so Contrast Index averaged in the considered exposure interval.

So for a N development it should be used 1:19 if 4min development, of course if alterneative printing requires more contrast then 1:9 may be ok, but 1:9 - 4min would deliver a high contrast negative for silver prints.

Thanks. This film/developer combo was recommended by the late Terry King for producing negs for platinum printing as it gives excellent mid-tone separation -- I definitely like my pt/pd prints using it, so extended its use for carbon negatives, also. However, PyrocatHD is my preferred developer but did not want to use it on the road for workshops.

http://www.rps.org/news/2015/april/terry-king-obit

[Pere Casals]

Thanks. This film/developer combo was recommended by the late Terry King for producing negs for platinum printing as it gives excellent mid-tone separation -- I definitely like my pt/pd prints using it, so extended its use for carbon negatives, also. However, PyrocatHD is my preferred developer but did not want to use it on the road for workshops.

http://www.rps.org/news/2015/april/terry-king-obit

I guess that I understand it... with Pyro (as stain blocks more UV than visible) you would require less density, but with silver negatives an energic developer like PQ it is useful to reach such densities...

[sanking]

Jim, yes...

I guess that the right answer to OP is 1:19 / 4min for Normal contrast, but 1:9 if he wants higher than normal contrast.

It's nice to see that Vaughn is using PQ to make negatives for carbon printing, it's a process that I want to learn. I want to avoid digital negatives...


In the early days the term gamma was used to describe curve slope, and for a straight line part of the curve it is an angle found by dividing the density range of the negative by subject brightness (or subject luminance) range. Most modern films have a limited straight line section so film makers today use other terms. G-bar is Ilford's term for Average Gradient, Kodak uses CI, or Contrast Index. G-Bar and CI are determined in slightly different way but produce similar results, depending on curve shape.

N, or Normal contrast, is a Zone system term that must be associated with the contrast requirements of negatives for a given process. Film makers don't make that determination, but do provide G-Bar and CI charts that can be used to determine how much contrast one will get with a given film, developer dilution and method, and time of development. These charts can be very useful, if you know how much average gradient or contrast index you need for a given process, and type of lighting.

Sandy

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Jim, yes...

I guess that the right answer to OP is 1:19 / 4min for Normal contrast, but 1:9 if he wants higher than normal contrast.

It's nice to see that Vaughn is using PQ to make negatives for carbon printing, it's a process that I want to learn. I want to avoid digital negatives...

Pere, if you want to learn carbon printing using in camera negatives come to Yosemite October 21-24,2020 when Vaughn and I will be conducting our carbon workshop again. Or you can hit us up for a private workshop as well.

https://shop.anseladams.com/Carbon_Printing_with_Vaughn_Hutchins_p/32201021.htm

[interneg]

I've used it at 1+19 on HP5+ for about 6 mins to boost the contrast of a flat scene for silver printing (and indeed scanning) - no reason why you can't use 1+29 or 1+39 to get the development time extended to a useful time. If you look out Paterson's data sheets for their FX-26 'Universal' developer it might also give some handy pointers - contextually there are good reasons for it to be pretty close to PQ Universal in behaviour etc. PQU is not fine grained, but it is extremely low fog & very, very sharp - albeit with a slight speed loss.

[pkr1979]

Thanks all for getting back to me. Is there a way to calculate extended time for various dilutions? Im assuming 6 min at 1+29 for normal contrast (based on 4 min at 1+19), or maybe 9 min for higher contrast based on interneg's usage?

[Pere Casals]

Thanks all for getting back to me. Is there a way to calculate extended time for various dilutions?

You have to check it, equivalent times may not be linear. Ideally you should make a film calibration like it is explained in Beyond The Zone System Book, but there are simple practical procedures.

Easiest way is to expose a 35mm roll (all (say) 24 exposures) with the same scene, use an scene with ample dynamic range. Remove the beginning of the roll, then cut pieces of about 40mm to make tests, you'll have the all scene in each piece but in "halves". Develop the reference scene with the reference dilution, then vary the development time for the new dillution until you find the a very close match.

[Pere Casals]

N, or Normal contrast, is a Zone system term that must be associated with the contrast requirements of negatives for a given process. Film makers don't make that determination, but do provide G-Bar and CI charts

Sandy, you are right, N is an ample concept, I guess that with silver gelatin paper it is the development that produces an easy to print negative for grade 2 Paper, for Normal SBR scenes, ...but each process should have a different "Normality".

Perhaps the right wording would had been Standard ISO contrast, 0.62, that is used to calculate ISO box speed.



Pere, if you want to learn carbon printing using in camera negatives come to Yosemite October 21-24,2020 when Vaughn and I will be conducting our carbon workshop again. Or you can hit us up for a private workshop as well.

https://shop.anseladams.com/Carbon_Printing_with_Vaughn_Hutchins_p/32201021.htm

This... would be... fantastic!!! I cannot think a better way (first) to learn and (second) to get extraordiary fun !

I'm 9,468.28 km far... but perhaps it may be possible, I'm going to think about it.