Backpack for Gitzo 13xx series and 4x5

[Steve Gilbert]

I apologize if this question has already been asked, but none of my searches turned up exactly what I'm needing to know.

I need to get a backpack for my Shen-Hao 4x5 rig. This is mainly for short hikes...a half day at the very most. I'm looking at the Lowepro Trekker AW series. While just about any of these are big enough to hold my gear, my main concern is my big Gitzo 1325 tripod with Markins ballhead. This is a pretty big tripod, and it seems that having it strapped to the center of a pack would result in awkward balance, and also maybe require a bigger pack than what the gear inside needs.

Can anyone comment on which Trekker model is the smallest one that can also carry this tripod in a practical manner? If it comes down to it, I'm willing to buy the big Super Trekker, but I'd really like to keep the pack as small as is practical. Unfortunately, I don't have a store nearby to check them out in person.

Also, it seems to me (I may be wrong) that it would be more stable to strap the tripod to the side of the pack and closer to my body than on the center of the pack. Do the Trekker packs support this configuration? Is there a more practical pack that I should be considering?

Thanks so much for any advice!

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Steve,

I have used just about every Lowe pack there is from time to time over the years, and all are excellent. However, I think I have finally decided there is no single best bag for me so I bought the padded camera case and lens case from Gnass Gear as it allows me to use a variety of backpacks depending on what I need ( I think they are at www.gnassgear.com).

The Gnass products are excellent quality but be prepared for a long wait. If they say two weeks plan on six, but I think the gear is worth the wait.

The Lowes are all excellent products and you won't go wrong with them. The center mounted tripod position offers the best balance, but you can change this to the side if you like ( at least I could on the ones I have owned). It will carry heavy tripods but I am not sure any of the current production photobackpacks actually do a very good job of securing a large tripod.

Another option is the F64 line of packs which I have not used but have heard good things about. Tenba and Tamrack also make nice bags so they might be worth a look.

Hope this helps and have a good one.

Eric

[Steve Gilbert]

Funny you should mention Gnass...my buddy uses their lens cases, and I just ordered one for myself just this weekend :-)

My only concern is finding a comfortable way to carry this big tripod. I've got leg wraps on it, and I've just been carrying over my shoulder, but that's getting old really fast.

The Lowepro Photo Trekker looks plenty big enough for my needs...maybe even a size smaller...I'm just having a hard time imagining this big tripod strapped to such a small pack.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

I used to strap a big Bogen to the Lowe and it was fine, the tripod stuck up above my head so had to be careful going under branches but it worked OK. The thing about the Lowe's tripod carrier is that the straps are elastic ( at least the two I owned) and so the tripod had a tendancy to bounce when I hiked. I replaced them with straps made of webbing which ended that problem.

I use a 12 series Gitzo now and it fits on the side of the REI daypack I use very nicely. The 13 series is larger of course. If you have an outdoor / backpacking store close, take the tripd down and see if you can find a pack that will handle it. I use the external compression straps to lash mine to my pack and it works great.

If not then I would suggest the Pro Trekker AW or the Super Trekker. The Super is a LARGE pack and can handle anything you want to through at it. I friend of mine puts his Sinar monorail and four BIG lenses in it and carries it comfortably.

Good luck.

[Jack Flesher]

You might want to look at the f64 backpacks -- I use a large, and find it very flexible. Not too expensive at around $150 from B&H: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=91693&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

[Larry Mendenhall]

I carry a Bogen 3021 tripod on the Lowepro Pro Trekker with no problems -- not sure how long your Gitzo is folded up or how heavy. My tripod with head is about 27-28 inches and probably weights in around 6 to 7 pounds. These numbers are just off the top of my head, so I could be off a little. I also carried it on my previous backpack - the Lowepro Photo Trekker - again with no problems. With both packs I carried it in the center.

I agree with Eric, the center position provides better balance. When I tried carrying it on the side, it felt very lopsided. In the center position, it rides very well and feels very secure. I just got back from a great Chuck Farmer workshop in Zion and had no trouble scrambling around the boulders or hiking up the river with my pack. My guess would be that your tripod will ride better than you think.

Good luck!

Larry

[Garry Teeple]

I carry my tripods on a waist belt. I made a semi-hard plate from plastic mounded on the waist belt and a strap at 90 degrees to the belt to clip the tripod on. The tripod carries about like a large frame .44 mag.; fastest tripod in the west. I've used this system to carry a Bogen 3236 with 4047 head for many miles. I finally came to my sences and bought a 3221, much lighter and easier to use. If you would like to see a picture of the tripod carrier drop me and email.

[Paul Butzi]

I use a Tenba PBL. It's outrageously huge.

[Gregory Gomez]

When buying a backpack, it’s all about the fit and the importance of buying either an internal or external frame pack. While backpacks designed for cameras are okay for shot distances, they have three major drawbacks: price, load capacity, and load balance.

You could buy an external frame Kelty pack for about $90 that has a load capacity of 3900 cubic inches, more than enough to carry an 8x10 and a very heavy tripod, which you can easily strap to the outside of the pack. Moreover, the weight of the pack would be distributed between the hips and upper back. Backpacks designed for cameras, even expensive ones, place the entire load on the shoulders.

Using a Jansport external frame backpack, for example, I was able to carry an 8x10 camera, tripod, and camping gear, a 67-pound load, 10 miles over a 12,000-foot mountain pass. Try that with any camera-only backpack.

The Kelty backpack mentioned above would give you the same performance when doing four-to-eight-hour day hikes in which carrying food and water may also be required.

Here is a Kelty backpack on sale at REI:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47883050&parent_category_rn=4500534

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

OK, I may be in the minority here, but I normally just carry my tripod in my hand when hiking. I'm talking on-trail hiking here - not scrambling or climbing. I've been doing this for the past 17 years with a number of tripods weighing anywhere from 3¼ - 12½ lbs. I've probably hiked a few thousand miles, including many times over 20 miles in a day, with a tripod in my hand. I switch hands every so often, and if I'm feeling really energetic, I'll even do arm curls with the tripod while I walk - that way my arms get a good work-out just like my legs.

The only time I ever bother to strap my tripod to my pack is when I'm backpacking and will be hiking several miles without stopping to take any photos. Or, when I need both hands free (scrambling, boulder hopping, hiking in snow with trekking poles, cross country skiing, etc.).

In addition to having the tripod handy (literally), I prefer not having all that weight hanging off the back or side of my pack. I'm also taller than average, and no matter if I strap the tripod horizontally or vertically to my pack, it always seems to get caught on every overhanging branch and all the trailside vegetation. Worst of all is when I duck to clear an overhanging branch or rock and the tripod doesn't. That'll knock you on your rear end faster than anything.

The carbon fiber tripods I've been using for the past several years (Gitzo 1227 and 1325) are so much lighter than the old metal Bogens I used to carry that they feel absolutely featherlight when carried in the hand.

Since I almost always carry the tripod in my hand, the pack I use isn't all that relevant, but for those who are curious, I use a Tenba PBH-K (that's a monsterously, insanely HUGE pack that fits on a Kelty external frame). This pack is bigger than I really need, but it allows me to carry all the photo gear I want and still have room for extras like food, water, rain gear, fleece jacket, etc. It also shares the frame with the Kelty Tioga pack I use for backpacking. With the external frame and a couple of bungee cords, I can (when I wish) strap the tripod to the pack frame either horizontally or vertically. I don't think Tenba makes this pack anymore (and I wouldn't recommend it anyway unless you NEED a REALLY big pack). They still seem to make the PBH model, which is the same thing with it's own harness (frankly, I can't imagine carrying a loaded pack this big without a properly supportive frame).

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Gregory,

It's amusing that you made your post about Kelty external frame packs at the same time I was typing my response. I thought I was the last dinosuar still using an old-school external frame pack. I've updated almost all my other gear to modern, ultralight, hi-tech products, but still use (and prefer) the ancient Kelty.

And here's another coindence - the pack I had before my Kelty was an old purple (very retro - Greg Brady would have found it "groovy") Jansport external frame pack. I know all the pack makers have sunk all their R&D dollars into the sexier, trendier internal frame packs (and I've tried a couple), but for some applications (carrying heavy loads on trail) it's hard to beat the classic external frame Kelty packs.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

P.S. That Kelty Sierra Crest pack in the link Gregory provided looks like a smaller version of the Kelty Super Tioga I carry when backpacking. Mine is an older version, but the current model Super Tioga is on sale for $120 at Campmor (http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=9499&memberId=12500226).

This is the pack I've used for years for backpacking. I carry my 4x5 outfit (other then the tripod) in a daypack that rides in the top compartment of the Kelty. That way, it's accessible when I need it, and once I reach my campsite, I can leave the big pack in camp and head out with the daypack for some photography.

Kerry

[Doug Dolde]

I tried and tired of Lowepro backpacks and now use a Lightware BP1620. However, I recently bought a Kata bag for my Powerbook and it's the best made bag I have ever owned. They also make several photo backpacks.

www.kata-bags.com/index.asp (http://www.kata-bags.com/index.asp)

[Steve Gilbert]

Thanks for all the replies, folks!

I do have a camping store nearby, so I'll drop in and check out some external frame packs. Maybe there will be one small enough. I used to have a Kelty exteranl frame pack for camping a long time ago, but it was HUGE. Otherwise, I'll check out the Photo Trekker. My goal is to find the absolute smallest pack that will fit my gear (I'm pretty sure even the Mini-Trekker would work for me), but still balance this tripod nicely. If I were to get the Super Trekker or Pro Trekker, it would only be for the sake of the tripod...which seems pretty silly considering the price.

That said, Kerry might be onto something...carrying a tripod by hand on a trail sure beats staring at a wall while lifting weights in a gym :-) Hmmm...

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Steve - That said, Kerry might be onto something...carrying a tripod by hand on a trail sure beats staring at a wall while lifting weights in a gym :-) Hmmm...

Yep, backpacking with a large format system gives you a full body workout without the expensive membership. The views are better and the air fresher, too.

Kerry

[Jack Flesher]

Okay, for my COMPLETE answer...

The above referenced f64 is really light -- about 3.5 pounds -- which is why I like it. And it is great with up to 25 pounds for less than 3 or 4 miles. However ity is not overly supportive for longer hikes or heavier loads... BUT it fits nicely inside my Dana Designs Stillwater pack ( a REAL load-bearing internal frame pack with a back-hatch) for when I'm going long distances and need the comfort and extra sorage of a full-on pack.

All FWIW

[Henry Ambrose]

You've gotten great advice from very experienced folks but I'll add in my 2 cents worth anyway. You say you want a daypack that is small as possible but will still carry your gear -- be sure to look at these:

www.ospreypacks.com/eclipse_intro.htm (http://www.ospreypacks.com/eclipse_intro.htm)

I think the fit of a backpack is more important than that it is made to be a photo pack or the features it contains. Osprey packs come in different sizes to fit varying body sizes - both pack lengths and waist belt sizes. I have two Ospreys (one larger top loader and another smaller daypack) and find them to be extremely comfortable in use. I prefer a panel loading pack like the Eclipse 32+5 when I want to have ready access to the contents. The side compression panels will give you a snug load whether full or half empty. Unless you are carrying a huge amount of gear this will do the job for day hiking. So put your gear in some kind of wraps or cases and carry it all in a real pack that fits.

[Frank Petronio]

I'm surprised that nobody hasn't mentioned that a 1325 is a great tripod but that a 12 series would probably do just fine with the Shen-Hao. Perhaps swapping "down" would have some advantages? After all, a lighter tripod will carry better no matter what system you use.

What would really be the nuts for backpacking is a CF tripod with screw off legs. Most packs could handle a couple of 18 inch long CF leg assemblies if they weren't welded to a large head and mount.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Frank,

Good suggestion. I use a Gitzo 1227 when I want to go REALLY light. Combined with a good head (Acratech, ARCA-SWISS, etc.), it would probably be adaquate for the Shen-Hao in most situations.

That said, I always felt a lot more comfortable with my Canham DLC sitting atop the 1325 than on the lighter 1227 - and in spite of the optimistic specs, the Shen Hao actually weighs more than a half pound MORE than the DLC. The 1227, is a great match for my little Toho (which is about half the weight of the Shen-Hao). I have, in a pinch, used my ARCA-SWISS F-Line Field on top of the 1227 with an ARCA-SWISS B1, but that's really pushing the limits of the little 1227 IMHO.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Jack - The above referenced f64 is really light -- about 3.5 pounds

Jack,

Is that the actual weight of the f64 pack? The B&H web site lists it at 4.5 lbs. If it's only 3.5 lbs., it might make an interesting alternative to the North Face Yavapai daypack I carry my 4x5 kit in when backpacking. As this is just a standard daypack, I need to use assorted cases/wraps to protect and organize the gear when using this pack. The total is probably still a bit less than 3.5 lbs. (probably somewhere in the 3 lb. neighborhood), but the f64 pack might offer better protection and keep things more organized.

Kerry

[Steve Gilbert]

Frank -- you're right, the 1325 probably is overkill for the Shen-Hao, but I also use it with some heavier equipment where it just feels more solid. I'd like to have a 12 series someday for hiking with the Shen-Hao, though.

[Jack Flesher]

Kerry asked >> Is that the actual weight of the f64 pack? <<

Hi Kerry:

It comes complete with the side pockets and waist belt, both of which are removable, and I assume 4.5 pounds is the total weight including them. I am tall (6'-6") so the waist belt is a joke as it rides too high, so I remove it. Without the pockets or waist belt attached, and with the dividers inside I need for my 4x5 camera, 4-5 lenses, quick-loads, holder, loupe and meter, the total pack empty tips my scale at exactly 3 pounds 8 ounces. I can strap my 1325 to the back or either side of the pack using a 1" web strap -- though like you, unless I'm planning on a few miles of hiking to get to my shooting destination, I usually just hand carry it.

In that configuration, the entire pack can then slip inside my full-sized Dana along with food, stove, sleeping bag and parka for an overnight outing. The tripod then gets attached to the back-flap of the Dana pack for easy backpacking.

I can probably get a photo or two of the entire outfit up tomorrow if folks are interested.

Cheers,

Jack

[Scott Davis]

I've got a Bogen/Manfrotto 443 carbon-fiber legset that I use with a Gitzo 12 series off-center ballhead and my Shen Hao- I've taken it hiking and had no problems with support or stability. The 443 is at least the same as the Gitzo 12-series legs, if not a little lighter-duty. Unless you're mounting some beast of a lens with an Ilex #4 or #5 shutter on it, the Shen won't weigh in more than about seven pounds, eight tops, which is what a 35mm SLR with a decent size telephoto zoom will weigh. There are some advantages to having a heavier wood camera - the weight and the material dampen some of the vibrations. Another legset to look at, especially for hiking, is the new Manfrotto Neotec tripod - while not as light as a carbon-fiber, the legs are extremely stable with a load on them- they actually get more stable the more weight you put on them. I've actually seen a 125lb man support his entire weight on the mounting platform. Of course, this is not recommended practice on a daily basis. The legset will hold 17 lbs per official specs.

[Sal Santamaura]

Another Kelty Super Tioga + 1325-carried-in-alternating-hands hiker checking in. The Kelty may be large, but it's not heavy, and even loaded feels light because it distributes weight so effectively to the waist belt.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Jack - I can probably get a photo or two of the entire outfit up tomorrow if folks are interested.

I'd love to see a photo or two when you get a chance.

Thanks,
Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Sal - Another Kelty Super Tioga + 1325-carried-in-alternating-hands hiker checking in. The Kelty may be large, but it's not heavy, and even loaded feels light because it distributes weight so effectively to the waist belt.

Wow, I thought I was the only one. I agree with your comments on the Kelty. It's great for carrying heavy loads (I've carried in excess of 70 lbs. with mine and used to regulary carry 65 lbs. with it - including the weight of the pack itself). I've looked at many of the newer light and ultralight internal frame packs, but the only ones I've seen capable of comfortably carrying as much weight as the trusty old Kelty weigh as much or more (the actual weight of my Super Tioga- Tall is 6 lb. 8 oz.) and cost a small fortune.

For the last year and a half, I've been having shoulder problems (rotator cuff tendinitis in both shoulders) that may eventually require surgery. But surprisingly, caring a heavy load in the Kelty causes absolutley no discomfort in my shoulders. The frame does a great job of transferring the weight to my hips and keeping nearly all the weight off my shoulders. Hefting the pack on and off causes more pain than caring it for hours on end.

I'm sure there are some great internal frame packs out there, and I can understand why people who hike off trail and scramble/climb prefer a pack that keeps the weight closer to their bodies for better balance. But, as a counterpoint, that's another thing I like about the Kelty. With the external frame there is plenty of room for air to circulate between your back and the pack - thus reducing the "sweaty back syndrome" problem when using a body-hugging internal frame pack.

That said, the Super Tioga is not for everyone. It's a BIG pack best suited to people who are fairly tall and broad shouldered. The suspension is adjustable over a wide range, but the shear size of the pack frame can overwelm those of smaller stature.

I've attempted to replace my Kelty a couple times, but keep coming back to it. Over the last 15 or so years, I've gradually replaced pretty much everything else in my backpacking kit (including most of the camera gear) with lighter weight items. In addition to the lighter weight, most of my newer gear also offers better functionality and/or better comfort and safety. But, I haven't yet found a new pack that I like better than the old Kelty. The design and the "style" may be considered ancient and totally uncool by some, but it works for me - and that's what counts.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Jack - I am tall (6'-6") so the waist belt is a joke as it rides too high, so I remove it.

This is also a problem I've had (I'm 6' 4") with most "photo" packs and many daypacks with a limited range of adjustments. Nothing like a "waist" belt (make that "waste" belt) that hits you 4" north of your navel to take your breath away. Sure some of the bigger photo packs offer a wider range of adjustments, but these packs are often very heavy (12 lbs.). In which case, I might as well carry my Kelty (or the Tenba PBH-K on the Kelty frame).

Kerry

[Jack Flesher]

Kerry >> This is also a problem I've had (I'm 6' 4") with most "photo" packs and many daypacks with a limited range of adjustments. Nothing like a "waist" belt (make that "waste" belt) that hits you 4" north of your navel to take your breath away. Sure some of the bigger photo packs offer a wider range of adjustments, but these packs are often very heavy (12 lbs.). In which case, I might as well carry my Kelty (or the Tenba PBH-K on the Kelty frame). <<

Exactly! Which is why I use the Dana/f64 as a combo. The Dana weighs 6.5 pounds, the f64 3.5, so I have a fully functional PADDED camera bag AND combined backpacking pack that is supremely comfortable, fits me perfectly, can carry 50 - 60 pounds with ease and weighs in at a total of 10 pounds! Not only that, when I get to my destination, I can shed the Dana and use the f64 by itself.

PS: I'll get some photos up in a few hours ;)

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Jack,

Thats REAL similar to the set-up I use with my Kelty Super Tioga and the 4x5 kit in a North Face Yavapai daypack with assorted wraps/cases. I've been using a similar set-up for over 15 years (same Kelty, but replaced the original daypack about five or six years ago). Your set-up sounds like it keeps the camera gear more organized than mine. It's amazing how light a 4x5 kit can feel on your back after you've been carry a 60 pound pack around all day. It's very liberating to drop the heavy pack and head off with the little daypack - tripod in hand - for some photography.

Kerry

[Jack Flesher]

Here are some quick snaps -- sorry for the quality but I took zero time processing these ;)

First, the f64 loaded with my typical LF kit:

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album08/f64_loaded_LF.jpg

Next, the Dana Swiftcurrent (Note: Dana makes two similar packs, one is the Swiftcurrent shown here, the other is the Stillwater. The Stillwater has a more robust internal frame and slightly larger capacity with a divided lower compartment. It has a correspondingly heavier load rating and weighs about 1.25 pounds more than the Swiftcurrent. I own both and can heartily recommend either, though the Swiftcurrent is a bit more comfortable with loads under 45 pounds as it is more flexible on the body.) :

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album08/Dana_Swiftcurrent.jpg

Here is the f64 inside the Swiftcurrent:

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album08/f64_inside_Dana.jpg

Here is the pair united, ready to trek, with the 1325 tucked in the "beavertail" rear storage flap:

http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album08/Dana_loaded.jpg

[Scott Schroeder]

I use the 1227. I am another one of the External frame fans :)
I use a jansport frame (because of the hoop on top) and just sewed my own pack out of spectra ripstop. It is essentially a big bag with four big pockets, one large mesh pocket and a flip top. It rides comfortable and breathes well. I put the tripod crosswise on top of the hoop which is cinched down with the top flap. I nest my 4X5 gear under that but on top of the other necessities. I can get to it quickly while I walk along.

For just afternoon outings I have a Kelty Redwing. I put the tripod down one side in the "ski sleeve." To balance things, I put my water bottle on the other side of the pack.

Both situations leave my hands free for scrambling or using walking sticks (good on the knees).

[Norris]

This is a nice question which has driven so much response. I have made several trails on backpack and finally end up with Tamrac backpack. It's depth enough , nearly 6-inch, for you to put your 4x5 straight into it vertically, and leave much space for lens, etc. Lowepro AW trekker cannot do that and you have to take away much of the velo tape and to put the body flat into the backpack so that you can close the zipper. hope you understand what i mean. As it's depth enough, ie very thick, you can attach something at the side of the backpack and hand your tripods there. I don't like hanging the tripods at the center of the backpack, it just dragg the cg away and make u difficult to walk and feel uncomfortable. However, this is the standard design of Lowepro....