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View Full Version : How to decide for a set of three lenses for a Linhof Technika IV



Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 12:43
Hi,

Many people decide to have three lenses. One wide,
one middle lens, and one long lens.

As a long lens I like the 180mm. lens over the 210mm.
focal length.

Having shot 35mm. and some medium format,
the 180mm. is equivalent to a 60 mm. in 35mm.
format, and the 210mm. is equivalent to a 70mm.
in 35mm. format.

It is the middle and the wide angle lens that I am not
too sure about.

As a middle lens, I feel attracted to the 120mm. and
135mm. large format lenses, but I don't know for which
one I should decant myself for. If I am right with my
equivalencies throughout this post, these two focal lengths,
for example, are equivalent to 40mm. and 45mm. in 35mm.
format.

Then, there is the 75mm. and 90mm. lenses for
the option of a wide angle lens.

Which focal length would you choose as a wide, middle and long lens?
Which focal lengths do you like best?

The 180mm. (or 60mm. lens) is for me a better
long lens than the 210, as I don't like to be far from the
person I take the portrait from. Are you more a 210mm.
shooter or do you go even longer?

I was never a big fan of the 150mm. (or 50mm.) lens as a
middle lens. I always thought that a middle lens was
a bit wider, at 45mm. or 40mm., (or 135mm. and 140mm.
in large format). As a more general purpose lens, I find
any of these two focal lengths to be very good. I would
use any of these to take a picture of a person from the
waist up, for example, or two to six people together in a
small group, and even some landscape and architecture.

The 90mm. and 75mm. (or 30mm. and 25mm. in 35mm.
format) are interesting lenses to me for natural and architectural
landscapes. Meaning for the latter, to take pictures of
rows of houses or buildings that are less than three or four
storeys high that come out, can one say, without distortion(??).

Of course would be very interesting to try most of these
focal lengths on my own, but I think your advice could
also help me to consider in favor or against any of these
focal lengths.

Thank you very much in advance, kind regards!

P.S. These are a couple of older threads that came up in a google search:

1.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-79296.html

2.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-119757.html

karl french
17-Oct-2019, 12:57
It's a personal choice, but back when I was shooting with quite a bit Linhof Technikas I found the 90, 150, 210, 300 lens line up to be perfect.

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 13:11
Hi,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!
Were you able to close the camera with any of those lenses inside?
Would it have been possible with a recessed board, for at least for
the 90mm. and 150mm. lenses? If possible, portability is also
interesting to me!
Thank you again, kind regards!

Bob Salomon
17-Oct-2019, 13:44
Hi,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!
Were you able to close the camera with any of those lenses inside?
Would it have been possible with a recessed board, for at least for
the 90mm. and 150mm. lenses? If possible, portability is also
interesting to me!
Thank you again, kind regards!

As the Linhof distributor in the USA from the 70s to 2015 and the Rodenstock distributor from 86 to 2015 the 3 most common lenses are the 90, 150 and 210mm.
The 150 on the 001015 recessed Comfort board does close up in the camera. The 90 and any lens in a 1 shutter from 180mm up will not close in the camera. The 90mm 5.6 or 6.8 or 8.0 requires the 001015 recessed board as well. The 90mm 4.5 Grandagon N requires a flat board.

Drew Wiley
17-Oct-2019, 14:00
Bob, that's what they told students in photo schools. Not bad for a starting commercial lineup - a 90 WA for architectural interiors, a 150 because it's "normal" I guess (I've never even owned a 150), and a 210 for portraiture. But people see things differently, and I strongly recommend tailing along with someone who has other lens options to view subject matter through, rather than stereotyping choices. I trend more to longer focal lengths, and typically carry 180, 250, and 360, often a 450 too. Other people mostly see things wide-angle. No rules except that the image circle must cover, and your range of bellows extension must match your lens choices. Technikas won't allow one to go too long in focal length without resorting to telephotos; that's one of the reasons I chose the Sinar system instead. Then there's the issue of folding the thing up with a lens installed, and which lenses it can be cammed for. My brother shot a Super Technika. Technikas remind me of turtles that can quickly clam themselves shut inside a cozy shell. For my first ten years I used a 210 lens exclusively.

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 14:06
Hello Bob,
Thank you for your message : ) !!!

I just looked up the recessed board that you mention.
It is a 12 mm. recessed lens board. It is very
expensive new.

On e-bay, I have seen boards that are 19mm. and 21mm.
recessed lens boards for Copal '0' lenses. I wonder if all
the Copal '0' lenses here mentioned could close up.
(I wonder if almost all, except the 180mm. and 210mm,
may be able to use the 19mm. and 21mm. ,recessed
boards from e-bay and may, at the same time, also close up
inside the camera)

Thank you again, kind regards!

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 14:15
Hello Drew,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Yes, I may only get the 135mm. or 120mm. lens.
That's why reading you guys is very helpful.
Yes, it is also great to be able to open the camera
and have the lens mounted and ready to shoot.

Thank you again, kind regards!

Bob Salomon
17-Oct-2019, 14:24
Hello Bob,
Thank you for your message : ) !!!

I just looked up the recessed board that you mention.
It is a 12 mm. recessed lens board. It is very
expensive new.

On e-bay, I have seen boards that are 19mm. and 21mm.
recessed lens boards for Copal '0' lenses. I wonder if all
the Copal '0' lenses here mentioned could close up.
(I wonder if almost all, except the 180mm. and 210mm,
may be able to use the 19mm. and 21mm. ,recessed
boards from e-bay and may, at the same time, also close up
inside the camera)

Thank you again, kind regards!

Lenses in a 1 shutter will not fit a Linhof recessed board.

Did you read what the Comfort board does?

Eric Woodbury
17-Oct-2019, 16:25
Ig, the 135mm is a wonderful choice. I'm not a big fan of the 150mm on 4x5 either, but the 135 is very nice. Plus, if you really need the 150mm, just crop 11%. The 135 is nice, too, because they are cheap and small. The 75mm is one lens I've never owned. I do like the 90mm Nikkor and it will cover my 5x7, too. As you get much wider than 90, you'll need a center filter, which I think is a pain. The 180 is nice.

For starters, I think you've made excellent choices. Don't spend a bunch of money on lenses yet. Eventually you'll collect them all, then sell them off and start again. It's part of the fun.

Two23
17-Oct-2019, 16:40
I find my most used are 90, 135, 180. Also have 75 and 300. I use the 75mm for interiors, the 300mm for details and landscape isolation. You're going to find you use large format a bit differently than you do 35mm. Although the lens equivalents you calculated are close you're likely to find the format doesn't directly translate to 35mm.


Kent in SD

Greg
17-Oct-2019, 17:04
Oh it so depends on the subject matter that you shoot. My lens set for 4x5 goes from 65mm to a 600mm tele. Years ago when I was shooting mainly waterfalls here in New England, used to take a 65mm, 75mm, and a 90mm with me. Most of the time pretty much impossible to physically get in closer or farther away from the falls. Now almost all of my images are shot with a 300mm, 500mm, or 600mm tele. Tomorrow a 400mm tele should arrive which should fill in the void. Now shoot mostly from the side of the road, and again physically get in closer or farther away just not possible most of thew time.

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 17:33
Hello Bob,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Yes, the comfort board is interesting
because one does not have to fiddle
with the actual speed and aperture
ring. The comfort board, if I
understood well, provides helpful rings
and accessories that help do the job.
The drawback is the high price.

Thank you again, kind regards!

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 17:44
Hello Eric,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Yes, that is what I like the most,
that it is small lens!

Is the center filter only needed
when shooting color, or is it also
needed for B&W? I mean, when
shooting with a 75mm. lens.

Thank you again, kind regards!

Bob Salomon
17-Oct-2019, 17:52
Hello Eric,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Yes, that is what I like the most,
that it is small lens!

Is the center filter only needed
when shooting color, or is it also
needed for B&W? I mean, when
shooting with a 75mm. lens.

Thank you again, kind regards!

All of the recent wide angle design lenses suffer from fall off center to edge. To correct that fall off you need a correct center filter. Regardless of focal length of the wide angle focal length, they all have this fall off.
With B&W you could dodge and burn while printing to correct the fall off. Color is a different story. This means that you would have to be an incredible printer to make a series of identical B&W enlargements. The center filter helps you to overcome the fall off.
Bear in mind, you want to use these lenses on a view camera, that means that you will, more then likely, use the camera’s movements. So even if you decide to use a 90 without the center filter if you apply movements you will accentuate the fall off asymmetrically. So you should consider the need for the CF regardless of the brand of lenses you decide to use.

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 18:45
Hello Kent,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

It seems to me, that you use your 90mm. lens
mostly as your wide angle of choice. Is that
because your 75mm. requires a center filter?

Could you please tell us when or why you may
use the 90mm. more often than your 75mm.?

Could you please tell how big is your 90mm.
and 75mm. lenses?

You mentioned: "Although the lens equivalents you calculated are close you're likely to find the format doesn't directly translate to 35mm."
Could you please tell a bit more? That could
help me more to decide between the 90mm. and
the 75mm.

Thank you again, kind regards!

P.S. I liked the quote below your name!

Bob Salomon
17-Oct-2019, 18:52
Hello Kent,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

It seems to me, that you use your 90mm. lens
mostly as your wide angle of choice. Is that
because your 75mm. requires a center filter?

Could you please tell us when or why you may
use the 90mm. more often than your 75mm.?

Could you please tell how big is your 90mm.
and 75mm. lenses?

You mentioned: "Although the lens equivalents you calculated are close you're likely to find the format doesn't directly translate to 35mm."
Could you please tell a bit more? That could
help me more to decide between the 90mm. and
the 75mm.

Thank you again, kind regards!

P.S. I liked the quote below your name!
4x5 is a short, squat format while 35 mm is a longer format. You can print an entire 45 image and make an 810 or 16x20.

You can’t do that with 35mm, you would have to crop the negative to make an 810, 16x20 or even a 4x5 print. They are completely different image ratios.

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 18:56
Hello Greg,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

I think that is very important!
To know as much as possible,
what subject matter will one
shoot with each focal length.

Thank you again, kind regards!

neil poulsen
17-Oct-2019, 19:24
From your description of photographing architecture, a 90mm is a good choice. An 80mm SW would kind of split the difference between a 75mm and a 90mm. (Quite a bit more expensive, though.)

If the 90mm, consider getting an f5.6 (or f4.5) 90mm SW lens, or a 90mm f8 Nikon SW lens. The Nikon f8 lens matches the 235mm image diameter of the faster lenses.

Personally, I like both the 180mm and 120mm lenses. These were my first two lens choices.

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 19:37
Hello Bob,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

I hope people in this forum don't throw a shoe at me ; ) !!!

As a starter, I may not print with an elarger. I'll scan.

Perhaps I should forget about the 90mm. and 75mm. lenses.
Perhaps I should stich images at the beginning.

Does a 105 mm. lens needs a center filter? It is equivalent
to a 35mm. lens in 35mm. format, isn't?

One of the main reasons to start shooting large format film
is because of archival. To document and archive. Digital
files may get erased if a hard drive fails. Film should last
longer, or may be not.

That is cool, I find this format very interesting : ) !!!

Thank you again, kind regards!

Bob Salomon
17-Oct-2019, 20:05
Hello Bob,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

I hope people in this forum don't throw a shoe at me ; ) !!!

As a starter, I may not print with an elarger. I'll scan.

Perhaps I should forget about the 90mm. and 75mm. lenses.
Perhaps I should stich images at the beginning.

Does a 105 mm. lens needs a center filter? It is equivalent
to a 35mm. lens in 35mm. format, isn't?

One of the main reasons to start shooting large format film
is because of archival. To document and archive. Digital
files may get erased if a hard drive fails. Film should last
longer, or may be not.

That is cool, I find this format very interesting : ) !!!

Thank you again, kind regards!

A 105 is not a wide angle. Recent wide angles cover a circle around 100 to 105°. A 100 or 105mm is in the 68 to 70° range. Those don’t need a Caf but they also don’t cover 45.

Corran
17-Oct-2019, 21:10
Most lenses wider than 90mm are a pain to use on the Linhof. You can do it, of course, with some effort, but if you want to shoot wide-angle architecture with lots of movements, the Linhof IV is not the right tool - any monorail with bag bellows will work better.

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 21:50
Hello Neil,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

It looks like I'll be leaning at first
towards the 90mm. lens.

The website I thought I may be
getting the 120mm. has sold it.
I need to find another one or
go for the 135mm.

Thank you again, kind regards!

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 22:09
Hello Bryan,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

To be honest, not interested in many movements.
I am happy with the lens plane parallel to the film
plane, just as if you were shooting in 35mm. or
medium format.

Because my interest is to document, just like the
early photographers did it with their early large
format cameras, my camera will not need to do
movements, except focusing, just like the cameras
of those early photographers.

Would the 75mm. still be ok?

Thank you again, kind regards!

Ig Nacio
17-Oct-2019, 22:14
Hello Bob,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Yes, unfortunately the 105mm. is
not a large format lens for 4"x5"!

It'll have to be the 90mm. or the
75mm. lens. Which one would
you choose?

Is it possible to use the lens
without any movements?
I am a beginner. To do any
movements may be quite complicated
for me.

Thank you again, kind regards!

Havoc
18-Oct-2019, 02:34
It's next to impossible to determine lenses for someone else. Slowly I'm gravitating towards 75/125/250 when leaving home with 3 lenses. I have a 90 and 180 but they stay more and more at home unless I really know what I'll find that day.

I find that for buildings I'm too often running out of subject distance when using a 90, or out of movement because of it. Ok, with the 75 I'll have to crop but cropping is easier than stitching. It could be just as well that I'm going to the 75 because the 90/5.6 is such a lump to lug around. But that also depends on where you like to shoot. In old towns in europe there isn't that much space. If you like to shoot old farm buildings in the US plains that is probably a different story.

I like the 125 as general purpose lens but then again, that's me. It's small, light and close to the 35mm I prefer on 24x36.

And the 250 is the same reasoning as with the wide. It is easier to crop a wider lens a bit than to run out of distance or focal length.

Huub
18-Oct-2019, 04:13
There is a Fuji 105mm f8 that does cover 4x5 and allows for plenty of movement. You could also consider the 110mm f5.6 super symmar XL, which allows for even more movement. The Schneider lens is a bit sharper and more contrasty, but more expensive as well. From personal experience i can tell you that the 75mm - 110mm set pairs nicely, also because i often found the 90mm either to wide or not wide enough for the work i wanted to do.

What might help when choosing a set of lenses is to look at the progression of focal lenghts. In a 80mm - 120mm - 180mm set there is a 50% progression between the lenses, where as with a 90mm - 135mm - 180mm you might find that the 135 is much closer to the 180mm then to the 90mm - leaving you wanting something between the 90mm and the 135mm. But also keep in mind that working with 4x5 is different form MF or 35mm camera's and preferences in focal lengths might shift quite a bit between formats. When i shoot 35mm i often work with 21mm and 28mm lenses, while in large format i tend to prefer longer lenses from 110mm upward.

Pere Casals
18-Oct-2019, 05:30
Having shot 35mm. and some medium format,
the 180mm. is equivalent to a 60 mm. in 35mm.
format, and the 210mm. is equivalent to a 70mm.
in 35mm. format.

It is the middle and the wide angle lens that I am not
too sure about.




Well, LF vs 35mm has no exact equivalents for two reasons:


1) Different aspect ratio: 3:2 vs 5:4. A LF focal has 3 equivalent 35mm focals: for the diagonal, for the long side and for short side. For example, for landscape you may consider more the long side equivalent to take the same mountains.


2) LF lenses have Unit Focus, or "focus breath", as you focus close you extend bellows and the image circle dilates, so the LF effective focal is longer for portraits. This also happens in a Mamiya RB/RZ 67...


In portraiture, Yousuf Karsh most loved focal for 8x10 was the 14", which is 180mm in 4x5...






Then, there is the 75mm. and 90mm. lenses for
the option of a wide angle lens.

Which focal length would you choose as a wide, middle and long lens?
Which focal lengths do you like best?



YMMV.

You may want a kit that grows a 50% from focal to focal, so one focal links to the other. We don't use zooms, some LF shooters never crop (a sacrilege :)) but we always can crop if wanting a composition, the 150mm takes more than the 180mm, but you always can crop a bit without noticeable quality loss.


Some people having a 90mm and a 65mm replaced both by a single 75mm (less total weight)... A 75mm is a great choice, you may crop to have the 90mm framing and, at the end, the 65mm had too much fall off in the corners, but you may want the extra field of the 65mm, YMMW. Also if you shot architecture you may want a 90mm because it's easier to get a big circle for translational movements.


_________________________


You don't say if you want to mainly shot architecture, landscape, portraits or objects, perhaps you have that open.

...so your priority now is to spend the least possible in glass until you know what you want, me I'm still a learner so I can speak about my big big mistakes in glass acquisition. You may make mistakes, but avoid expensive mistakes :)

LF glass has an impressive richness in glass nuances, IMHO much more than in small formats, as a example see this article about portraiture glass https://www.largeformatphotography.info/portrait-lenses/ that covers a tiny share of what LF portraiture glass can be.


My (weird) recommendation to start: https://www.kenrockwell.com/schneider/150.htm

It is convertible, a 150mm, but if you unscreew the front cell and you have a 265 f/12 that's very good for portraits, you have to stop a lot (/22 or /32) the conversion (265mm) for better corners but for portraits corners are irrelevant, two focals for $150.

Single coated, so you'll learn to control flare.

Shot say some 100 sheets, learn very well what you want and later invest in a competent kit. Later you can sell that 150mm or you may keep the spare shutter, or you my love it, a single coated lens may be better for portraits. The important thing is that you will learn cheap what focal you want an what image circle, still you may want to learn what bokeh: tessar? plasmat? heliar?. Don't think that old 150 isn't a competent lens, in many situations a $2k lens may not perform better, you may have to stop for DOF and then diffraction limits performance of the best lens you can buy to the same you have with the old symmar. Ansel Adams made most of his career with well inferior glass !

In LF you always have lots Image Quality, many times it's more the photographer than the glass. See Sally Mann...

Step 1: Learn, shot, develop a savvy criterion for gear.

Step 2: Acquire gear, think that are many important things in the LF gear you'll have to purchase, including some darkroom equipment, and you also have to spend in film.

Arne Croell
18-Oct-2019, 06:45
I agree with Huub and others here that a series using a fixed percentage increase, i.e. a factor, can be helpful. What that factor should be depends on personal taste, which focal lengths the camera can handle, which focal lengths range one wants to cover, how many lenses one is willing to buy and transport, and how much cropping one is willing to do later. Of course, rounding to the nearest available focal length is necessary, one does not need to be too anal about it (looking in the mirror here). It is also worthwhile to check the real focal length from the manufacturers data if available, since there is usually some rounding going on. A case in point is the Schneider f/6.3 210mm Xenar, which is actually 215mm, vs. the Schneider f/9 210mm G-Claron which is actually below 210mm (around 207 or 208mm if I remember correctly).

Here are some possible ranges - not limited to 3 lenses - for different factors, using existing focal lengths covering 4x5 (except the 38mm), other starting points for each factor are of course possible:

Factor 1.4 (i.e. close to the square root of 2): (38) - 55 - 80 - 110 - 150 - 210 - 300 - 420/450 - 600 - 800 - 1000/1080/1200
Factor 1.5, the 50% mentioned above: 58/65 - 90 - 135 - 200/205/210 - 300 - 450 - 720 - 1000/1080
Factor 1.7: 55 - 90 - 150 - 270 - 450 - 720/800 - 1200
Factor 2: 47 - 90 - 180 - 355/360 - 720

When I started out with LF (1991), I bought three lenses using a factor 2: 75 - 150 - 300 and worked with them for 2-3 years. After that time, I felt that they were spaced too far apart, and added a 120 and a 210mm focal length. The 120 was of course a bit close to the 150, so I later exchanged it for 110mm when that lens came out.

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 10:03
Hello Havoc,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Yes, I think that is something good
about the 75mm. I hope the
distortion is not too bad and that
the fall off is not too strong when
shooting without movements.

Do you think vignetting will be very
strong even if I don't do any
camera movements?

Thank you again, kind regards!

Bernice Loui
18-Oct-2019, 10:11
IMO, mistake to decide and choose a LF camera first then decide on lenses. LF is not the same as smaller format camera where a given brand restricts or limits lens choices to what that given brand offers.

*Fold up or field camera as a group can be difficult to use to not usable at all with wider angle to longer telephoto lenses due to their design and lack of versatility. Restrictions and limitations of camera movement can also be a serious limitation, lack of on camera shutter limits what lenses can be used. That said, fold up or field cameras are generally lower weight, more compact, easier to transport but not without trade-offs.

*Monorail cameras can offer extreme camera flexibility and versatility with few to no real limitations on lens choices. Except they are often bulky, difficult to transport, not compacts, not as easy to set up and not ideal to hike with.

~This is why long time LF folks who do a large variety of images have both a monorail & fold up aka field camera.

Ideally, decide on lens focal lengths and what lenses ya wanna use first based on the LF images in mind and want to produce. Then, make lens choices be they in shutter or barrel or etc... Then decide on a camera that will easily accommodate the lenses choose.

As for focal length, four lenses is typically what is carried and used as needed, if 4x5, typical focal lengths are:

*Wide angle- 75mm to 90mm. Most fold ups will have difficulty with 75mm and shorter focal lengths. Between dropping the bed, serious restrictions-limitations on camera movements.

*Medium wide - 120mm to 135mm, works well with vast majority of cameras.

*Normal - 150mm to 210mm, works well with the vast majority of cameras

*Tele - 300mm to 450mm or more depending on what the camera will allow. On fold up aka field cameras, bellows limits max focal lengths useable. Then camera-tripod-support stability becomes very serious issues-problems to deal with. As the focal length and camera size goes up, these problems can become very-very serious as vibration and camera-camera support systems are pushed to their limits.

In the beginning, camera movements might not be a significant consideration or need, but as one develops camera skills with a realization of just how powerful camera movements can be as a image control tool, the need for camera movements can become a prime need and value to image making.



Bernice

Corran
18-Oct-2019, 10:13
Who can say what is "very strong" to you? A 75mm is wider than 90mm, so by definition it will have more fall-off, given the same or similar lens design. A 47mm will vignette a lot harder than that though!

The question is what you are doing with it and how you want the image to look. Also there are many, many variables with regard to film choice, contrast in the scene, indoor or outdoor photos, etc. that make it an impossible question.

Really though, get any 75mm or 90mm lens you can find at a good price and start working and see what you can get and what you find problematic. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 10:14
Hello Pere,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Very interesting explanations and
also you gave me an idea for another
post.

Thank you again, kind regards!

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 10:24
Hello Arne,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

I am considering a 1.5 factor: 90, 135, 180mm.
However, I may switch the 90 for a 75mm.

Thank you again, kind regards!

LabRat
18-Oct-2019, 10:42
A 75mm can cause you a headache on a folding camera, as the FS tends to sit between the front and rear rails to focus normally unless you get the special Linhof lens board ($$$) for it, and I think it is a recessed board that will be more of a chore to set shutter, and limit lens choices due to size...

A 90mm misses all these hurdles and allows a flat board with more lens choices...

Steve K

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 10:50
Hello Bernice,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

The camera needs to be portable;
as compact as possible; and as
light as possible. I can't carry a
heavy camera.

I don't use telephotos. Neither in
the other formats. In large format,
I have almost ruled out any lens
longer than 210mm.

Is it possible to make 'architectural
landscapes' without many movements?
Imagine yourself standing on a street
with a field camera. These are the
streets where the photos would be
made:
http://www.lemonpage.de/Fotoseiten/potsdam-fotos.html

These photos would be for archival
purposes. I may not be able to
control all the movements in the
camera but I'll be able to record
and/or documents the buildings
as they stand today. I will not be
shooting buildings taller than three
or four storeys high.

Thank you again, kind regards!

Corran
18-Oct-2019, 10:52
Front rise

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/--wd6XfeQJ20/TqzkZTeOlKI/AAAAAAAAAEg/wy4lShmINDQ/s600/0122.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E_NtNu2-E8E/TqztgH0qQYI/AAAAAAAAAEo/7JK9RnVDpFM/s600/BRY_0705.JPG

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 10:56
Hello Bryan,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

Is it possible to make 'architectural
landscapes' without many movements?
Imagine yourself standing on a street
with a field camera. These are the
streets where the photos would be
made:
http://www.lemonpage.de/Fotoseiten/potsdam-fotos.html

These photos would be for archival
purposes. I may not be able to
control all the movements in the
camera but I'll be able to record
and/or documents the buildings
as they stand today. I will not be
shooting buildings taller than three
or four storeys high.

With regard to 'vignetting', I would
almost hate to see one third of the
picture being cropped out because
of vignetting. That, I mean, when
using a 75mm. lens when shooting
without any camera movements.

Thank you again, kind regards!

P.S. Very nice picture!

LabRat
18-Oct-2019, 11:00
But sometimes a longer lens is your friend when you can't get close enough, or when there are things in the way (like parked cars, poles etc) and you can get further away (like across the street) and use an edge to hide them, shoot over something etc...

I have a 280mm on my Tek I use a lot for architecture...

Steve K

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 11:06
Hello Steve,

Than you for your message : ) !!!



A 75mm can cause you a headache on a folding camera, as the FS tends to sit between the front and rear rails to focus normally unless you get the special Linhof lens board ($$$) for it, and I think it is a recessed board that will be more of a chore to set shutter, and limit lens choices due to size...

A 90mm misses all these hurdles and allows a flat board with more lens choices...

Steve K

Even with the 19 and 21mm. recessed boards sold on e-bay for Linhof Technikas?


How bad is vignetting on the 75mm. lens when not doing any movements?

As mentioned before:

Is it possible to make 'architectural
landscapes' without many movements?
Imagine yourself standing on a street
with a field camera. These are the
streets where the photos would be
made:
http://www.lemonpage.de/Fotoseiten/potsdam-fotos.html

These photos would be for archival
purposes. I may not be able to
control all the movements in the
camera but I'll be able to record
and/or documents the buildings
as they stand today. I will not be
shooting buildings taller than three
or four storeys high.

Thank you again, kind regards!

P.S. I'll consider the Tele for the future!

Two23
18-Oct-2019, 11:06
Hello Kent,


1. It seems to me, that you use your 90mm. lens
mostly as your wide angle of choice. Is that
because your 75mm. requires a center filter?

2. Could you please tell us when or why you may
use the 90mm. more often than your 75mm.?

3. Could you please tell how big is your 90mm.
and 75mm. lenses?

4. You mentioned: "Although the lens equivalents you calculated are close you're likely to find the format doesn't directly translate to 35mm."
Could you please tell a bit more? That could
help me more to decide between the 90mm. and
the 75mm.




1. No. I use the 90mm because I can do more lens movements with it, and I generally am photo'ing exteriors where I can simply back up to frame.

2. See above. I actually don't have a center filter, I just scan negs and use PS vignette removal.

3. It's big. Nikon 90mm f4.5 and Nikon 75mm f5.6. I want the speed of the f4.5. I'm also used to using really big 19th C. brass lenses such as my five pound Voigtlander Petzval. The 90mm is nothing. Still weighs less than the lenses I use for my Nikon D850.

4. I photo different things with LF, and often in a different way. I have some nice vintage 35mm cameras & lenses: 1984 Nikon F3T, 1954 Leica IIIf, 1942 Leica IIIc, 1929 Ansco Memo. I use each for different things. My lens set for the 35mm cameras is 28/50/105mm and my lenses for 4x5 are similar. There's really only a big difference when you start getting down to the wide end--in the middle not so much. A 75mm is noticeably wider than a 90mm, but in practice there isn't much difference between a 150 and 180mm.

I'll add, if you aren't going to use movements why bother with LF at all? That's the whole thing. I found them so useful that my most used lens on my D850 is the Nikon 24mm PC-E (shift lens.) Not sure what period you're talking about but cameras from about 1880 on did have movements and photographers certainly used them. My 1890s British field camera has similar movements to my 2010 Chamonix. Also, if wanting to photo like old time photographers why are we talking about modern Copal lenses? I am very interested in historical photography and use period correct lenses and shoot either dry plate (easy) or wet plate (a bit involved.)


Kent in SD

Corran
18-Oct-2019, 11:08
Ig Nacio, if you have to crop the photo, I assume you mean vignetting as in "no image." This would be because the image circle is not large enough for your film. What I was referring to is better described as "fall-off" and is a loss of light at the edges of wider lenses. This is inherent to non-retrofocus designs common in LF.

I can not tell what you know or don't know about LF, so I must recommend you first read "The Camera" by Ansel Adams, or any of the other books that give a good baseline for LF. That will give you a good bit of info about movements and why you would use them.

Here's what I can tell you. Whenever I shoot architecture, I use front rise a LOT to correct keystoning and get the tops of the buildings in. This is pretty standard. You need a large image circle and a camera that can do front rise, preferably a lot of it. Your Linhof, with a 90mm lens, will allow a bit of front rise but not much - in the later Master, they added a flap on the top of the camera to allow more. This is why a monorail is a better tool. If you use a 75mm, you likely won't be able to use any movements, or a few millimeters. If you want a whole bunch of street in your photo, or a tilted building, that's your choice, but know that is the only option. And a longer lens will work fine, but may not be wide enough of course.

Simply put, if I am going out to shoot architecture, I bring my Toyo GII monorail with Schneider 72mm XL and 90mm XL lenses primarily, and sometimes a Nikkor-SW 120mm just in case I need something longer. Never used much else except a 58mm or 47mm for indoor shots (basically no movements possible with those). The Toyo is a monster but there are lighter options available.

linhofbiker
18-Oct-2019, 11:17
My first Technika Mod III came with a 135 Symmar lens. This was my only lens until I traded it for a Technika V with 90 and 150 lenses. Now I have the choice of many lenses and would use the following 3, 120 Symmar-S, 150 Apo-Symmar and 210 G-Claron. I found that 90, 75 and 65 wide angles were too difficult to use on the Technika without the flap seen in the Master Technika from 1972.

LabRat
18-Oct-2019, 11:19
To add to Corran, a problem that comes up with UWA lenses is that at eye level, it also includes more sidewalks and things at ground level, where front rise would shoot above it... Pros often use a ladder with a camera clamped to the top to rise above that, but impractical for casual shooting...

Steve K

LabRat
18-Oct-2019, 11:29
My first Technika Mod III came with a 135 Symmar lens. This was my only lens until I traded it for a Technika V with 90 and 150 lenses. Now I have the choice of many lenses and would use the following 3, 120 Symmar-S, 150 Apo-Symmar and 210 G-Claron. I found that 90, 75 and 65 wide angles were too difficult to use on the Technika without the flap seen in the Master Technika from 1972.

My most used lens for architectural work is a 135mm WF Ektar which has a large IC, but the shutter barely fits on my Tek... It allows for quite some rise, but usually barely makes it fully extended, but just barely...

I suggest a 135mm with a large IC, it's wide, but with plenty of movements, but tends to crop out unnecessary excess...

Steve K

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 11:38
Hi Ken,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!



I'll add, if you aren't going to use movements why bother with LF at all? That's the whole thing. I found them so useful that my most used lens on my D850 is the Nikon 24mm PC-E (shift lens.) Not sure what period you're talking about but cameras from about 1880 on did have movements and photographers certainly used them. My 1890s British field camera has similar movements to my 2010 Chamonix. Also, if wanting to photo like old time photographers why are we talking about modern Copal lenses? I am very interested in historical photography and use period correct lenses and shoot either dry plate (easy) or wet plate (a bit involved.)

Kent in SD

Mainly because archival purposes. Storing digital files may fail. One can always rescan a negative.
Why not 35mm. or MF? Yes, I use them, but I also wanted to use larger negatives. I also have to
say that I have seen a beauty recorded in LF photos (or negatives) that may not always be recorded
in 35mm and/or MF.




There's really only a big difference when you start getting down to the wide end--in the middle not so much. A 75mm is noticeably wider than a 90mm, but in practice there isn't much difference between a 150 and 180mm.


What about "vignetting". I would hate to lose a lot of the negative to vigneting. I see that photoshop can do a lot, but I would appreciate a negative as clean as possible.


Thank you again, kind regards!

Two23
18-Oct-2019, 13:37
Hi Ken,


What about "vignetting". I would hate to lose a lot of the negative to vigneting. I see that photoshop can do a lot, but I would appreciate a negative as clean as possible.


Thank you again, kind regards!


I scan everything and run it through software. Vignetting is not a problem for me. The center filters are a lot of $$ so software is a no-brainer for me. The biggest thing I don't like about the 75mm is I have virtually no movements with it on my Chamonix 045n. Recessed lens boards are a pain. If I used the lens a lot I would get a bag bellows for it.


Kent in SD

Tobias Key
18-Oct-2019, 14:54
I have a Super Angulon 75mm 5.6, Fuji NW 125mm, and a 210mm APO Symmar. I wish I could say that this was some kind of well thought out master plan, but basically I bought whatever was available and good value when I had a bit of spare cash! I am a big fan of the Fuji lens. It is small, sharp and because it is a somewhat odd focal length can be picked up cheaply because it less searched for than 135 or 150mm lenses. I think it works very well as a general purpose lens, slightly wide tends to work well for 4x5 and I find easy to visualise shots that fit this focal length. I love my APO Symmar 210mm too. It was my first lens that was really a revelation in its optical quality - it set a benchmark that made all my other lenses across other formats suddenly just 'OK'.

The 75mm lens I have reservations about. It's a late '90's version and has fantastic optical quality but is difficult to use. Recessed lens boards are a pain (even one as big as a Toyo monorail board) and viewing the image from a 75mm on the ground glass is not as easy as with longer focal lengths. the grounglass is dim, you can only really see the centre easily, and checking the corners means looking at the glass from an angle to see what's going on. If you are shooting for fun I wouldn't recommend a 75mm unless you have compelling reasons for using one.

As a starting point I think anything in the 120-135 range coupled with a 210 would be hard to beat. I think you could cover most things with just those two lenses. I would only add a 90 or 75 if you had a very strong reason for doing so.

Bob Salomon
18-Oct-2019, 15:12
What you are getting is a bunch of personal opinions that are basically worthless to you unless you do exactly what the posters do.
The intelligent way to pick your lenses, assuming that you have no large format experience, is to decide what your favorite focal length is on what you currently shoot. See what the horizontal field of view of that lens for that format camera and buy the lens for 45 that has that same horizontal field of view.
Use that lens for a few months and then see if you would like a lens wider or much wider, longer or much longer. Once you make that choice buy a lens that fits your needs. Then use those 2 lenses for a few months and decide again, wider, much wider, longer or much longer. Then buy the 3rd lens.
You will save money and tailor what you buy to your needs and desires.

Ig Nacio
18-Oct-2019, 17:34
Hi,

Thank you to all of you for your messages : ) !!!

This thread has been very helpful because
I already know which middle and long lens
I'll be getting.

It is through your help that I will be doing
a better and more informed purchase and
that helps me a lot!

I just need a bit more information in order
to know which wide angle lens to get.

@Brian (Corran) - But in 35 mm happens the same, doesn't? One uses the wider wide-angle lens available even if things are a bit slanted, (no movement capability in 35mm, remember?). That way one gets more information on the picture. If chosen properly, in 35mm. format, one finds lenses with little or no vignetting at all. Will the 90mm. and/or 75mm. have a strong 'vignetting' using them without any movements?

@linhofbiker - Was there a lot of vignetting present? I am ok if the movements are limited, as long as there is less or no vignetting.

@Steve K (Labrat) - Yes, I'll use a ladder or go on the roof of low buildings. The 135mm. is already in the kit ; ) !!!

@Kent in SD (Two23) - I may live with a 75mm without much movement, but I could hardly live with it if the vignetting is very strong. How strong is vignetting with your 75mm. and no camera movements?? Are recessed lens boards better to keep compact lenses inside the camera? Why you don't like the recessed lens boards? The camera I'll use is a Linhof Technika IV.

@Tobias Key - I'll definitely take a look at the 125mm. lens. Why a 210mm. and not a 180mm.? Have you or anyone you know used both the 180mm. and the 210mm.?
Why are recessed lens boards a pain to use for you too - (Kent in SD seems not very fond of them too)? Wouldn't recessed boards allow you better to keep compact lenses attached to the camera? Perhaps a sometimes valued feature at the moment of closing and setting up a field camera like the Linhof Technika IV. What would you find compelling enough to add a 90 or 75mm. lens?

@Bob Salomon - Yes, it is a good idea, but because I live quite far away from shops and so, it is perhaps to get at least a couple of lenses. That's why I am very grateful for all the information you and the other members here have given me : ) !!!


Thank you again, kind regards!

Corran
18-Oct-2019, 17:58
Lens design for small format lenses is very different, being generally retrofocus. Vignetting, or fall-off, is a fact of life. Buy a center filter if it's a problem. You are focusing much too much on it though IMO. Plus 75mm lenses will not work well on your Linhof. Get a good 90mm f/8 and get to work, and you'll figure out what you need from there.

Bob Salomon
18-Oct-2019, 18:02
Modern wide angle lenses do not vignette. Vignetting is caused by mechanical cutoff of the lens coverage.
What you and some others are calling vignetting is actually fall off which is an optical effect, not a mechanical effect.
Almost every lens has falloff over its coverage. But with wide angle designs it is much greater, hence the center filter to correct it.

Two23
18-Oct-2019, 18:59
Recessed boards are a pain to change aperture or shutter speed on. Hard to see numbers, harder to change settings. I'm also thinking it will be difficult to find center filters for lenses out of production for 15 to 20 years. They aren't cheap either. You would have been better off with a monorail like a cambo, but you can probably do what you want with a 90mm that has big image circle for rise.


Kent in SD

Bob Salomon
18-Oct-2019, 19:37
Recessed boards are a pain to change aperture or shutter speed on. Hard to see numbers, harder to change settings. I'm also thinking it will be difficult to find center filters for lenses out of production for 15 to 20 years. They aren't cheap either. You would have been better off with a monorail like a cambo, but you can probably do what you want with a 90mm that has big image circle for rise.

Learn what the Linhof Comfort recessed board is. It is easier and more convenient that lenses mounted on a flat board.

Heliopan, Rodenstock and Schneider either currently make or recently stopped making CF. They are not difficult to find.
Kent in SD

hiend61
19-Oct-2019, 14:20
A 105 is not a wide angle. Recent wide angles cover a circle around 100 to 105°. A 100 or 105mm is in the 68 to 70° range. Those don’t need a Caf but they also don’t cover 45.

Hi Bob, Fuji made the Fujinon SW 105/8 with a coverage of 100º, and of course needs a Center Filter to mitigate fall off.
Heliopan Center filter 77mm, very very difficut to find, suits perfectly this lens.

Bob Salomon
19-Oct-2019, 14:51
Hi Bob, Fuji made the Fujinon SW 105/8 with a coverage of 100º, and of course needs a Center Filter to mitigate fall off.
Heliopan Center filter 77mm, very very difficut to find, suits perfectly this lens.

There were three different Heliopan 77mm center filters. The most recent one and the two older ones. One was 4 stops!

hiend61
19-Oct-2019, 15:02
There were three different Heliopan 77mm center filters. The most recent one and the two older ones. One was 4 stops!

That´s right Bob, I forgot to mention the version Ww ND 0,45. I also know a Ww ND 0,90 version exists, and probably a Ww ND 0,60. I had no idea about a 1,2 version (4 stops).
Heliopan filters are very uncommon in Spain, because there was not an importer. Briefly, 2013-2015, there was an official importer. Most of my Heliopan filters came from Germany.

Bernice Loui
19-Oct-2019, 20:58
Ig Nacio;1521202
Hello Bernice,

Thank you for your message : ) !!!

~Reply

The camera needs to be portable;
as compact as possible; and as
light as possible. I can't carry a
heavy camera.

~Linhof Technika is not light weight, some where in the 6.5 pound range. There are metal and field cameras that are lower
Weight with more camera movements, easier to deal with for wide angle lenses and over better design in many ways available today.
Know the Linhof Technika and cameras of this style were press cameras originally intended to be used with no or minor camera movements.
Having owned and used various Linhof Technikas in the past, they are precision made, very durable, reliable but has very real camera movement
an other what some would consider serious limitations. Having been there, done that Linhof Technika style cameras are never again.

~There are light weight monorail cameras that will serve FAR better for architectural images.

~Again, types of prints-images as the prime consideration, then lenses required to achieve these images and camera last. This is fact due to LF
the vast majority of LF cameras use a lens board. Long as the lens board is large enough, camera strong-rigid-stable enough most ANY lens can
be fitted to a LF camera. Second factors is bellows, will there be enough bellows for longer focal length lenses, can a bag bellows collapse short
between front and rear standards to allow using very short focal length lenses. Third, does the camera have enough flexibility to accommodate
bag bellows, standard bellows, precise and stable camera movements, durable-reliable, broad range of accessories to meet image making demands?

I don't use telephotos. Neither in
the other formats. In large format,
I have almost ruled out any lens
longer than 210mm.

~Don't rule out any lens focal lengths until these focal lengths have been tried and well used.

Is it possible to make 'architectural
landscapes' without many movements?

~Sure, there will be trade offs and limitations in the images produced. One of the prime reasons for LF is camera movements and removal of
nearly all lens on camera limitations. If you're not fully exploiting the capabilities of what LF can offer as a image making device.

Imagine yourself standing on a street
with a field camera. These are the
streets where the photos would be
made:
http://www.lemonpage.de/Fotoseiten/potsdam-fotos.html

~Been there done, this. Camera movements applied as needed no exceptions.

These photos would be for archival
purposes. I may not be able to
control all the movements in the
camera but I'll be able to record
and/or documents the buildings
as they stand today.


I will not be shooting buildings taller than three
or four storeys high.

~To do this properly, front rise or rear drop will need to be applied. This will be discovered as architectural images are made.

~Previous experience using 5x7, 8x10 & 4x5, use a moderate wide angle lens with a bag bellows on a monorail camera all on a VERY stable tall tripod.
Some architectural folks will use a ladder with a camera mount on the ladder. Difficulty with this is keeping the camera set up and image maker still
as there are times when exposure times will become extended with any camera movement during exposure producing image faults. This is why
using a BIG_TALL_Stable tripod with a ladder is ideal, but not always do-able. Alternative to this is to apply a LOT of front rise-Rear Drop or tilt the
camera up then correct for the camera tilt angle by moving both front & rear standards until the image has the least amount of distortion.

~Keep in mind, images made with lots of camera movement is not the same as the same image made on a tall tripod with the image maker
on a ladder.

~What are your plans for post camera film processing and finished prints?


Bernice

Ig Nacio
20-Oct-2019, 12:57
Hello,

Thank you very much for your posts : ) !!!

@Bernice - I'll open a new thread for film processing and finished prints!

Very kind regards,

Ig

Tobias Key
22-Oct-2019, 05:25
Hi,

Thank you to all of you for your messages : ) !!!

This thread has been very helpful because
I already know which middle and long lens
I'll be getting.

It is through your help that I will be doing
a better and more informed purchase and
that helps me a lot!

I just need a bit more information in order
to know which wide angle lens to get.

@Brian (Corran) - But in 35 mm happens the same, doesn't? One uses the wider wide-angle lens available even if things are a bit slanted, (no movement capability in 35mm, remember?). That way one gets more information on the picture. If chosen properly, in 35mm. format, one finds lenses with little or no vignetting at all. Will the 90mm. and/or 75mm. have a strong 'vignetting' using them without any movements?

@linhofbiker - Was there a lot of vignetting present? I am ok if the movements are limited, as long as there is less or no vignetting.

@Steve K (Labrat) - Yes, I'll use a ladder or go on the roof of low buildings. The 135mm. is already in the kit ; ) !!!

@Kent in SD (Two23) - I may live with a 75mm without much movement, but I could hardly live with it if the vignetting is very strong. How strong is vignetting with your 75mm. and no camera movements?? Are recessed lens boards better to keep compact lenses inside the camera? Why you don't like the recessed lens boards? The camera I'll use is a Linhof Technika IV.

@Tobias Key - I'll definitely take a look at the 125mm. lens. Why a 210mm. and not a 180mm.? Have you or anyone you know used both the 180mm. and the 210mm.?
Why are recessed lens boards a pain to use for you too - (Kent in SD seems not very fond of them too)? Wouldn't recessed boards allow you better to keep compact lenses attached to the camera? Perhaps a sometimes valued feature at the moment of closing and setting up a field camera like the Linhof Technika IV. What would you find compelling enough to add a 90 or 75mm. lens?

@Bob Salomon - Yes, it is a good idea, but because I live quite far away from shops and so, it is perhaps to get at least a couple of lenses. That's why I am very grateful for all the information you and the other members here have given me : ) !!!


Thank you again, kind regards!

I bought the 210mm because I got it very cheaply. At the time I had a 165mm Calumet-Ilex lens so 180mm was too close to this for me to consider. It's also the longest focal length in a No.1 shutter and a 5.6 aperture, after that long lenses are in No.3 shutters with 1/125 top speeds.

I don't like recessed board because I have to use an angled cable release adaptor. It's hard to see the shutter speed and f-stops marked on the shutter and harder to adjust them, even with quite a big board. I do have bag bellows for my camera and this is a much better solution.

linhofbiker
22-Oct-2019, 06:00
Hi,

Thank you to all of you for your messages : ) !!!

This thread has been very helpful because
I already know which middle and long lens
I'll be getting.

It is through your help that I will be doing
a better and more informed purchase and
that helps me a lot!

I just need a bit more information in order
to know which wide angle lens to get.

@Brian (Corran) - But in 35 mm happens the same, doesn't? One uses the wider wide-angle lens available even if things are a bit slanted, (no movement capability in 35mm, remember?). That way one gets more information on the picture. If chosen properly, in 35mm. format, one finds lenses with little or no vignetting at all. Will the 90mm. and/or 75mm. have a strong 'vignetting' using them without any movements?

@linhofbiker - Was there a lot of vignetting present? I am ok if the movements are limited, as long as there is less or no vignetting.

@Steve K (Labrat) - Yes, I'll use a ladder or go on the roof of low buildings. The 135mm. is already in the kit ; ) !!!

@Kent in SD (Two23) - I may live with a 75mm without much movement, but I could hardly live with it if the vignetting is very strong. How strong is vignetting with your 75mm. and no camera movements?? Are recessed lens boards better to keep compact lenses inside the camera? Why you don't like the recessed lens boards? The camera I'll use is a Linhof Technika IV.

@Tobias Key - I'll definitely take a look at the 125mm. lens. Why a 210mm. and not a 180mm.? Have you or anyone you know used both the 180mm. and the 210mm.?
Why are recessed lens boards a pain to use for you too - (Kent in SD seems not very fond of them too)? Wouldn't recessed boards allow you better to keep compact lenses attached to the camera? Perhaps a sometimes valued feature at the moment of closing and setting up a field camera like the Linhof Technika IV. What would you find compelling enough to add a 90 or 75mm. lens?

@Bob Salomon - Yes, it is a good idea, but because I live quite far away from shops and so, it is perhaps to get at least a couple of lenses. That's why I am very grateful for all the information you and the other members here have given me : ) !!!


Thank you again, kind regards!

With the Technika IV you have to drop the bed to the lowest setting to use a 90mm or less lens. I had a 65mm SA on one of those special focusing devices - what a pain! The 75mm SA was a good compromise and there was no vignetting only the natural falloff towards the outer image circle. This can be corrected with the expensive center filter, but I never bothered with this.

Keytarjunkie
24-Feb-2020, 05:06
I have a Tech V, and use a Nikkor 90/4.5, Fujinon 125/5.6, Schneider 150/5.6 APO L, and Schneider 210/5.6 APO. After using these lenses for a little while, I am starting to feel like the right kit for me is 110 - 150 - 180. I know there is not much difference between the latter two, but it's just enough to be good for an environmental portrait. Like you, I don't like using longer focal lengths. I think I may keep the 90 and 210 in case something comes up where they are useful.

90mm is as wide as I'd want to use on the Technika IV or V. Mine is on a recessed board, which makes it easier to operate. Any wider than 90 and you'll be more limited with movements, plus the pain of center filters...

Also, a note on collapsing lenses into the Technika: the smaller Fujinon and Nikkor lenses in Copal 0 shutters will fit on a normal lensboard like the Fujinon 125 and Nikkor 150. Nikon also made a 200mm f/8 which is very small and light, and maybe that would fit as well. Perhaps also the Rodenstock 135/5.6 but I don't have one...