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norly
3-Oct-2019, 02:38
Hello.
I work professional with 4x5 since many years and do maybe anywhere between 50-300 sheets a month. Color negatives C41 (only kodak 160).

Now I am about to move to a city that where the last pro lab closed down a few years ago. So far Ive always used a professional lab for developing the film. But now I will have to rely on sending the exposed film to another city. And that's just to slow, expensive and especially unsafe.

However I do have space in my new studio for a darkroom and I am contemplating if I should start doing my own developing. Not that I want to but out of desperation.

Can anyone give a advice how to do that. I would prefer to have a automatic developer for 4x5s. Maybe a drying cabinet. Price is not really a issue. I just want something easy, efficient and safe...

So tips on machines, equipment, and how to manage the fluids. What would the costs be vs a professional lab and so... Any advice is appreciated.


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And no, digital is not a option. I already have a full Phase one, linhof techno setup, and I don't enjoy it at all. Totally wrong for me. Rather not be a photographer then. :)
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Thanks

Pere Casals
3-Oct-2019, 03:09
Hello.
I work professional with 4x5 since many years and do maybe anywhere between 50-300 sheets a month. Color negatives C41 (only kodak 160).

******
And no, digital is not a option. I already have a full Phase one, linhof techno setup, and I don't enjoy it at all. Totally wrong for me. Rather not be a photographer then. :)
******
Thanks

First, congratulations, if you are in that workflow I guess you are using the most impressive resources in the profession, no debate.


This weekend I'm to install an ATL 2500 while assembling a RA-4 capable LF optic darkroom with a mate.

It makes all cycle unatended, so for 300 sheets/month it would be nice, but it's an automatic machine that may require a technical service or being DIY able to solve possible issues, or (if bad service) making a new cycle controller with a PLC, that can be made by a PLC workshop to just open/close valves at the right time, leaving temp, motor switch and dose for manual procedures.

If you only make 50 sheets per month then peharps a manual cycle would be more effective than an automated one.

Sandro
3-Oct-2019, 04:54
Developing 4x5 films at home is easy, actually easier than black &white.
What I currently do:
- Paterson Tank with Mod54 film spiral (I know that Jobo as a similar solution)
- C-41 Development Kit (I use Bellini, but other brands are available)
- A sous-vide cooker to maintain the temperature at 30 C or higher (it depends on the kit)
- A simple rack for drying the films

I’ll give more details if you are interested.

AndrewBurns
4-Oct-2019, 01:36
Applications like these are one of the reasons I'm currently working through designing a new automatic film developing machine, unfortunately it's a ways of being ready for sale yet: http://midtonemachines.com

In the mean time I've processed B&W, C41 and E6 4x5 film by hand dozens of times using an SP-445 tank, it only does 4 sheets at a time (which is plenty for me) but it does a great job. The whole process really isn't any different to 35mm or any other film, using a sous vide machine and a water bath to maintain correct temperature for colour film really helps as well.

Pere Casals
4-Oct-2019, 02:03
http://midtonemachines.com

Nice project, congratulations !

norly
5-Oct-2019, 12:10
Thanks for the advice. Maybe a manual process is better.. I guess the JOBO systems would work.

Does anyone have a price estimate for the fluids when doing home development vs in a lab? Would be interesting to have a price per negativ.

Whats is the main concerns when developing myself.. Any risk of failures?

norly
5-Oct-2019, 13:26
Looks like the JOBO CPE 2 or 3 is a quite standard solution for home processing. Not very expensive.

Peter De Smidt
5-Oct-2019, 16:20
For 4x5, you're gong to want to use the 10 sheet Expert Drum. If memory serves, that rules out the CPE. You'll want a CPP 2 or 3. If a CPP2, you'd want the version 3 motor.

gijsbert
5-Oct-2019, 19:22
Another automatic processor: https://www.filmomat.eu/?lang=en

nbagno
6-Oct-2019, 01:08
For 4x5, you're gong to want to use the 10 sheet Expert Drum. If memory serves, that rules out the CPE. You'll want a CPP 2 or 3. If a CPP2, you'd want the version 3 motor.

Or the 3006 expert drum for six sheets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

koraks
6-Oct-2019, 02:41
Thanks for the advice. Maybe a manual process is better.. I guess the JOBO systems would work.

Does anyone have a price estimate for the fluids when doing home development vs in a lab? Would be interesting to have a price per negativ.
Lowest cost is achieved (for practical purposes) when using minilab chemistry. Costs per sheet are minimal; never calculated them, but vanishingly small compared to commercial lab development. Kodak chemistry is easier to get in the US, in Europe Fuji chemistry is easily accessible.


Whats is the main concerns when developing myself.. Any risk of failures?
The usual; issues with temperature control and timing, mixing errors, physical defects due to handling or particulate contamination, etc. But if you stick to the prescribed development parameters, it's not particularly difficult to get good results.

Pere Casals
6-Oct-2019, 02:51
Thanks for the advice. Maybe a manual process is better.. I guess the JOBO systems would work.

price estimate



No doubt, I'd start with a simple jobo cpe-2, and later you may go to a more automated machine if your volume and other factors makes it suitable.

With a cpe-2 manual manchine you would use a 3 bath system, many brands and rebrands: Tetenal, Arista, CineStill, Compard, Rollei...

The pro way is 6 bath, Kodak Flexicolor and Fuji Hunt, but 6 bath way makes an automated jobo more suitable, but then you have to love somewhat complex machinery.

At this point your best bet is cpe-2 and 3 bath kit, this has a chem cost of about $1 per 45 sheet in chem.

Let me point some tips:

> You may process more rolls than datasheet says, at some risk, say 25% to 50% more. The chem degradation, 1st developer for example, depends on exposure, processing an unexposed film leaves 1st developer near intact because near no halide is processed to silver, while an ultra exposed negative will degradate chem. But you should start with the kit recommendation.

> You don't need to mix all concentrate, you max mix what you need, then you displace the air in the concentrate bottle with Tetenal Protectan spray, or air duster spay for electronics, or butane. In your intesive workflow this may not be necessary.

> Mix the Stabilizer last bath with distilled water, this prevents water marks.

> Make the rinses with hot water (38.5ºC ideally), if water is very cold you may have reticulation in the emulsion.


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In the future you may go to Kodak/Fuji chem to play in 1st division, if you make commercial contacts enough then you may get that chem from distributor at similar price than Labs, the chem cost would be a fraction. Labs have optimal costs from replenishment, but without going to replenishment you can cut chem cost well beyond 1/2, I guess.

Also 6 bath is technically better, specially for replenishment, in the 3 bath you make more than one process in a bath, so replenishing would be challenging, as 3 bath kits are not replenished (until I know) then many of the 3-bath drawbacks are avoided.

Renato Tonelli
6-Oct-2019, 06:49
If your largest format is 4x5, a good option might be a Jobo ATL-1000 or ATL-1500; these are fully automatic processors which complete the process through the final wash. It takes up little space; Mine is on a shelf above a counter. The ATL-1500 has the advantage of allowing program changes for the B&W process. They use the less expensive reels and tanks (2500 Series) and the largest tank can process up to 12 sheets of 4x5 film.

I have the luxury of owning the ATL-1550 (and 2500, which is much larger).
By luxury, I mean: as the machine is processing a tank full of film, I am loading the reels for the succeeding run, measuring the chemistry so it is ready to go. Once the first process is over, I install the second tank, add the chemistry and start the process; in the meantime, I will be emptying the first tank, bathing the film in Wetting Agent and hanging the films to dry.

Jim Michael
6-Oct-2019, 07:23
When I ran film there was a little more to it than a processor and some chemicals. There was also process control. We would run a control strip daily and read it with a densitometer and plot the readings, watching for sudden shifts in the plot. I would be curious to know how consistent today’s one use chemistries are, as shown by a densitometer, particularly if I was shooting subjects where critical color rendition was a factor. Crossovers and the like are no fun to deal with. Also, of the number of sheets through the film line, how are they distributed through the month?

That filmomat machine looks nice.

Dave Dawson
6-Oct-2019, 08:27
I used to use a Jobo ATL-3 with an expert tank that held 6 sheet of 5X4........Simple, it's fully automatic.....Set the program of your choice running and go and make a cup of tea. If you can get one, you will never look back.

Dave

Steven Ruttenberg
15-Oct-2019, 21:24
I second the expert drum for 10 sheets. I wait till I have 50+ sheets to develop. SP445 is good, but at 4 sheets at a time. it takes a while. For bw. tray or SP445. Expert drum if not doing anything special with bw development.