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FrancisF
26-Sep-2019, 09:16
I recently found a 1940 print of my uncle by Laura Gilpin in the attic. The print was not stored under ideal conditions. Print may be platinum - about 8 inch by 9 inch. It is in perfect condition. The cardboard mat is about 14 inches and 18 inches. She signed the mat in pencil so I want to perserve it.

As you can see on one of the attached, the vertical edeges of the mat are warped - perhas 1/64 th of an inch. So it is not a great warp but it is visible since it does not lie flat on the photo. The horizontal edges of the mat are perfectly flat.

Does anyone have suggestions for flattening the mat? Can it just put the mat in a hot press and then turn off the heat and let it cool for a couple of hours?

Vaughn
26-Sep-2019, 10:08
That could work. Close the mount press for a minute or so, then open the press -- do this a few times to drive out the moisture.

Another possibility is cutting another window on 4 ply matboard, with the window big enough to include the signature.

Drew Wiley
26-Sep-2019, 10:11
Oh my. Congratulations on the find. But you've got a dilemma. The overmat might not be of the best sort for sake of the paper on which the print itself is made; it would have to be tested for acidity. If there is no discoloration on the edges of the print itself, it might not be an issue. But because Laura's signature is on the mat itself, it becomes important to the image itself, as you have noted. Your idea about a press is not bad, if the heat is modest; but you might not need any heat all all, just a good flat weight like a heavy piece of sheet glass for awhile.

NER
26-Sep-2019, 10:24
As a first step, I would try to find someone with professional training and experience in the area of art conservation and restoration who can advise you on the best way to proceed. If you encounter difficulty there, you might then try contacting Martha Sandweiss at Princeton University - she was Curator of Photography at the Amon White Museum in Fort Worth which has a collection of Gilpin prints, and in that capacity she authored a beautifully-illustrated book on Laura Gilpin titled "An Enduring Grace," which I am fortunate to have in my library. Dr. Weiss may be able to point you in the right direction. I too have ideas about flattening the mat in incremental steps, but I think the recommendation I offer here is a better beginning than throwing out the method I would use if I were to attempt this on my own. Congratulations and good luck with your discovery. I hope it turns out well.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

Drew Wiley
26-Sep-2019, 11:27
That sounds like overkill for a fairly straightforward problem. But that book, Enduring Grace, is one of my favorites.

Vaughn
26-Sep-2019, 12:18
As a first step, I would try to find someone with professional training and experience in the area of art conservation and restoration who can advise you on the best way to proceed...
A good idea -- you might find out some interesting information about the print as well. If you have the year when the photograph was made, that will help. If the photographer was consistent in her use of materials during that period of time, you might find out its make-up, as well as the brand of platinum paper used, etc. Knowing its value would be good for insurance purposes.

NER
26-Sep-2019, 12:54
I don't view this as a straightforward problem because I don't see this as a straightforward print.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

Drew Wiley
26-Sep-2019, 13:15
The point is, is he willing to drop several hundred bucks on a pro conservator for doing something redundant? Just because it's a commercial portrait by Laura doesn't mean the cost benefit ratio is going to be commensurate. But an expert on her might indeed be the one to best adjudicate that specific question. Conserving an old photo like that is fairly easy once one knows the ABC's. Note that I say conserve, and not restore, which is apparently the situation in this case. Normally curators don't do appraisals; it's not their job.

Jim Noel
26-Sep-2019, 13:27
That could work. Close the mount press for a minute or so, then open the press -- do this a few times to drive out the moisture.

Another possibility is cutting another window on 4 ply matboard, with the window big enough to include the signature.

This is the most practical suggestion which has been made. The warping is definitely caused by moisture absorption. It was absorbed over a long period of time,and should be driven out in a like manner.
The temperature should be modest, certainly not above 200 deg F. let the mat get warm,not hot, open the press for a minute or so, and repeat the process 8-10 times. Then Unplug the press and let it cool overnight. By morning the mat should be flat and relatively dry.

Drew Wiley
26-Sep-2019, 13:33
Hard to say, Jim. The mat might simply reabsorb humidity and end up the same way because the warpage pattern has become rather entrenched by now. It might take a period of time under pressure to get seriously cured. I've done this kind of thing numerous times. It isn't just photographs I've framed. One also has to be careful with press heat if the signature is in an unknown ink. Pencil should be OK.

Merg Ross
26-Sep-2019, 14:09
Another possibility is cutting another window on 4 ply matboard, with the window big enough to include the signature.

That would be the safest approach, and my choice. It could be a tight window, given the location of her signature. Removing that much warp will not be easy. It may be on 2 ply Strathmore board which was popular during her time. Just a guess.

FrancisF
26-Sep-2019, 16:42
I recently found a 1940 print of my uncle by Laura Gilpin in the attic. The print was not stored under ideal conditions. Print may be platinum - about 8 inch by 9 inch. It is in perfect condition. The cardboard mat is about 14 inches and 18 inches. She signed the mat in pencil so I want to perserve it

As you can see on one of the attached, the vertical edeges of the mat are warped - perhas 1/64 th of an inch. So it is not a great warp but it is visible since it does not lie flat on the photo. The horizontal edges of the mat are perfectly flat.

Does anyone have suggestions for flattening the mat? Can it just put the mat in a hot press and then turn off the heat and let it cool for a couple of hours?


Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I even took the suggestion to contact Martha Sandweiss. She suggested the double matting approach. I will check in with the Chicago Art Institute before making a final decision and picking a firm to do the work

Francis

cowanw
26-Sep-2019, 19:21
I wonder why the need to change what is an expression of the work and materials used at the time. Does it e really need a pristine mat or is there value in the original presentation however it has altered by time. (not counting preservation issues)

Merg Ross
26-Sep-2019, 20:08
I wonder why the need to change what is an expression of the work and materials used at the time. Does it e really need a pristine mat or is there value in the original presentation however it has altered by time. (not counting preservation issues)

A valid point. However, I do not believe that this is an expression of the work and materials used at the time. Rather, a representation of lacking proper care, resulting from being stored in an attic. Of course, it is not in my possession to enjoy; were it so, I would choose to emphasize the beauty of the print, not the unfortunate condition of the mat. As to value, perhaps you are correct.

Drew Wiley
26-Sep-2019, 20:17
Some quite valuable works of art have ended up being ruined due to either poor storage or just plain ignorance of proper framing technique until relatively recently. Some of these can be salvaged before it's too late. I'm not implying that's the case here; the problem as described seems minor. Nor am I implying that just because a print was made by a well-known photographer it's valuable. I can think of several much more famous individuals whose commercial portraiture has only marginal value compared to what they considered personal work of artistic value. I'm not in a position to decide in this case. But the fact that it's a signed hand-coated platinum print must have some significance. It matters little anyway; it's valuable to the poster himself, and he wants to do it justice. That's what matters.

Jim Noel
27-Sep-2019, 12:55
Some quite valuable works of art have ended up being ruined due to either poor storage or just plain ignorance of proper framing technique until relatively recently. Some of these can be salvaged before it's too late. I'm not implying that's the case here; the problem as described seems minor. Nor am I implying that just because a print was made by a well-known photographer it's valuable. I can think of several much more famous individuals whose commercial portraiture has only marginal value compared to what they considered personal work of artistic value. I'm not in a position to decide in this case. But the fact that it's a signed hand-coated platinum print must have some significance. It matters little anyway; it's valuable to the poster himself, and he wants to do it justice. That's what matters.

And as fine art photographers today, we should thank him for his concern and desire to restore the presentation to a state worthy of the photographer.

Drew Wiley
27-Sep-2019, 14:01
I take the same care with even amateur antique photographs, by otherwise unknowns, that I find especially interesting.

cowanw
27-Sep-2019, 14:03
Those are fine sentiments, Jim, but Laura Gilpin used a non-archival hand-cut vellum ‘mat’. Additionally her prints were not dry mounted and often have non flatted rippled edges. Many photographers of her generation used simple coloured paper (often with hand drawn pencil rectangles) as mats.
There may well be a conflict between what the photographer chose and what we think is worthy of her and what will best preserve the article.
I am reminded of Clarence White's prints held in Princeton, still in contact with their original wooden frames without mats or surface protection and valued for that more than modern matted examples.
Personally, I might just overmat with just enough cutback to see the signature, which would cover the rippling at the frame edge, but that might necessitate another frame, which if the frame is original,would be a pity to lose that. or just leave it and appreciate the honesty of it's flaws as seen by modern eyes.

Eric Biggerstaff
27-Sep-2019, 19:52
As a first step, I would try to find someone with professional training and experience in the area of art conservation and restoration who can advise you on the best way to proceed. If you encounter difficulty there, you might then try contacting Martha Sandweiss at Princeton University - she was Curator of Photography at the Amon White Museum in Fort Worth which has a collection of Gilpin prints, and in that capacity she authored a beautifully-illustrated book on Laura Gilpin titled "An Enduring Grace," which I am fortunate to have in my library. Dr. Weiss may be able to point you in the right direction. I too have ideas about flattening the mat in incremental steps, but I think the recommendation I offer here is a better beginning than throwing out the method I would use if I were to attempt this on my own. Congratulations and good luck with your discovery. I hope it turns out well.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

I believe you mean the Amon Carter Museum in Ft. Worth, as a kid it was my favorite place to go on Sunday after church. An outstanding collection of American art.

NER
27-Sep-2019, 23:24
I believe you mean the Amon Carter Museum in Ft. Worth, as a kid it was my favorite place to go on Sunday after church. An outstanding collection of American art.

Yes, you're right. Thank you.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

Drew Wiley
28-Sep-2019, 10:17
A trick not discussed yet would be to slip a thin sheet of mylar with its own cutout window between the mat and print, if an incompatibility is suspected. It's a good barrier.

Robert Opheim
28-Sep-2019, 16:15
The other thing would be to keep it out of direct sunlight and replace the glass with conservation glass.

Drew Wiley
28-Sep-2019, 16:42
Any kind of glass (versus plexiglas) is a poor thermal insulator and susceptible to backside condensation under certain circumstances. The problem in this case was due to humidity. Keeping prints out of direct sunlight or other high UV sources is important regardless, but the potential migration of nasties between a less than ideal matboard and the print itself can occur in total darkness. But if that kind of risk exists in this case would have to be determined by someone capable of identifying the specific kind of paper involved with each component. The backing might not be ideal either. But one can't just jump in feet first. Lots of "archival" materials are artificially buffered slightly alkaline;
and alkalinity is not always a good thing. It all depends.

FrancisF
4-Oct-2019, 19:20
Thanks for all the helpful thoughts about options. I ended up going to see Brian Flax at his framing shop on Wabash Ave in Chicago. The glass was broken so I replaced it with a UV protection glass. The mat "board" was just paper. It was warped as a mentioned and also has some water staining due to condensation from improper storage. So I went with the option of mat board on top that has a cut out for Laura Gilpin's signature on the original matting. Inside I also found her label. It refers to the print as "Gaveluxe" print.
I have found no references on line for this type of print. Has anyone heard of this?

196182

Vaughn
4-Oct-2019, 19:58
In the powerful photograph, "Sunburst, The Castillo, Chichén Itzá," 1932, Gilpin contrasted the corner of a massive, stone hewn temple on the left of the photograph with sun rays streaming through the clouds toward a flat, undifferentiated landscape. Printed it as a silver bromide print on Gavelux paper, the photograph has an especially rich tonality.

from: https://www.andrewsmithgallery.com/exhibitions/lauragilpin/masterworks/lauragilpin.htm

In the same article, she preferred platinum papers and textured silver papers.

An interesting article -- probably a different paper from the same company:

https://www.artic.edu/articles/696/encounter-with-unusual-photo-paper

Sounds like it was a textured silver bromide paper by Gevaert Photo-Producten NV, who merged with Agfa in 1964.

Drew Wiley
5-Oct-2019, 10:44
Her paper preferences are discussed in Enduring Grace. Some were fragile to handling due to an almost velour surface.

Vaughn
5-Oct-2019, 15:03
My second link above is about the Gavaert velour paper Laura Gilpin used-- shows the paper surface magnified, repairing the fragile surface, and also a short video that should be boring but is somehow interesting..."Removing fibers with tweezers"