450mm lens with 420mm bellows draw?

[LFLarry]

Hi, I would like to use my 450mm Nikkor-M lens on my 4x10 camera that has 420mm of bellows draw.

Any ideas of how to make this work based on experience?

Thanks!

Larry

[Keith Pitman]

Use a “top hat” extension lensboard the has a tube that extends the lens about 100mm. I like the Ebay seller jinfinance (no relation, just reliable and good quality).

[LFLarry]

Hi Keith, thanks for the tip. I just did a search on eBay for a 100mm Top Hat lensboard Linhof style and nothing is coming up at this time. I will use this info as a starting point and see what I can come up wtih. Thanks again.

Larry

[Mark Sawyer]

No problem! Just shoot things that are a little beyond infinity...

[Pere Casals]

Hi, I would like to use my 450mm Nikkor-M lens on my 4x10 camera that has 420mm of bellows draw.

Replace your M 450 by a Tele lens type that require less bellows, for example the Nikon T 600mm only requires 410mm bellows. Tele lenses are the straight solution for shortcommings in the bellows.

________

Flange focal distance of the M450 is 435.8mm, the rear nodal point is in the exterior side of the lens board so you need a bit less than 450mm.

To focus infinite, as Keith pointed, you want a 20mm tube extension.


This would not allow to focus close subjects, but there is an exception: If in a landscape (say with mountains far) you want to also focus a near subject (say a flower) that's in the scene bottom then a tilt in the back and/or in the front would keep all in focus.

Of course stopping a lot the lens will also help to place near subjects in focus, but you also will loss ultimate Image Quality because of diffraction.

_______

Right now, even without the tube extension, I guess you can take your first shots by stopping a lot, but if you want to play in that focal range you need a solution because your camera is simply not for that lens. You may DIY add bellows draw to the camera, you may replace the camera, you can shot with a shorter focal and cropping.... and finally, the best choice, replace your M 450 by a Tele lens type that require less bellows.

[Steve Goldstein]

Hi Keith, thanks for the tip. I just did a search on eBay for a 100mm Top Hat lensboard Linhof style and nothing is coming up at this time. I will use this info as a starting point and see what I can come up wtih. Thanks again.

Larry

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Luland-Produced-Linhof-4-5in-Large-Format-Extension-Tube-Camera-Lens-Board/183126114765?hash=item2aa32ac1cd:g:Vd0AAOSwnbZYHE-0

[Bob Salomon]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Luland-Produced-Linhof-4-5in-Large-Format-Extension-Tube-Camera-Lens-Board/183126114765?hash=item2aa32ac1cd:g:Vd0AAOSwnbZYHE-0

https://www.wista.co.jp/e_wista/e_show/e_acces/e_acces2/e_acces2.htm

Adjustable for length and accepts 0, 1 or 3 size shutters. Longer extensions available as accessories.

[LFLarry]

This is exactly what I was looking for!! I just purchased it. Thanks for the link...



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Luland-Produced-Linhof-4-5in-Large-Format-Extension-Tube-Camera-Lens-Board/183126114765?hash=item2aa32ac1cd:g:Vd0AAOSwnbZYHE-0

[LFLarry]

Hi Pere, that is a really good tip and point that you make. A good friend of mine has been trying to sell me his Nikkor 600, so maybe I should also consider this as an option now. I also just purchased the adjustable top hat lensboard that Steve recommended. Excellent tips from everyone!

Thanks

Larry

[Drew Wiley]

Long tophat boards are capable of mechanical vignetting if you apply strong front tilts or swings to the front standard. They also add torque vector leverage to the front standard by hanging out in front, so you have to be a little more careful with wind gusts etc. But the same could be said to some extent about telephotos.

[ic-racer]

Any ideas of how to make this work based on experience?

In this situation I have used an extension bellows. It addresses some of the issues mentioned above.

195748

[Maris Rusis]

One desperate trick I've resorted to is to shorten the focal length of a lens. The 300mm I use on my 8x10 camera is sometimes too long and I want something slightly wider. Answer? Screw a #1 close-up lens on the front. A 450mm with a #1 close-up lens on it reduces to an effective 310mm. How to use? Focus a couple stops down from wide open to allow for most of the inevitable focus shift and then stop way down for the actual exposure. Result? Tolerable image quality compared to no picture at all.

I have and use top-hat lens boards occasionally on my Tachihara 4x5 camera. The anxiety then is the strain on the front standard of the camera caused by a big lens hanging out there with extended leverage. And front swings and tilts with a top-hat lens board involve much increased image shift and the danger of mechanical vignetting. Compromise, compromise.

[Bob Salomon]

One desperate trick I've resorted to is to shorten the focal length of a lens. The 300mm I use on my 8x10 camera is sometimes too long and I want something slightly wider. Answer? Screw a #1 close-up lens on the front. A 450mm with a #1 close-up lens on it reduces to an effective 310mm. How to use? Focus a couple stops down from wide open to allow for most of the inevitable focus shift and then stop way down for the actual exposure. Result? Tolerable image quality compared to no picture at all.

I have and use top-hat lens boards occasionally on my Tachihara 4x5 camera. The anxiety then is the strain on the front standard of the camera caused by a big lens hanging out there with extended leverage. And front swings and tilts with a top-hat lens board involve much increased image shift and the danger of mechanical vignetting. Compromise, compromise.

Have you ever checked out minus lenses? And with the cost of time and materials shooting large format why would you settle for tolerable/mediocre quality? Or don’t you care?

[Maris Rusis]

Have you ever checked out minus lenses? And with the cost of time and materials shooting large format why would you settle for tolerable/mediocre quality? Or don’t you care?

Yes, I've done extensive trial with minus lenses from -0.5D to -2.5D. The stronger the supplementary lens the worse is the image quality, as expected.

The reason to settle for tolerable image quality rather than no picture at all hinges on the other costs beyond materials. A memorable experience involved backpacking an 8x10 outfit several kilometres into extremely rugged country (Carnarvon Gorge, Queensland, Australia) to get to a scene (Moss Garden) that is fully visible from only one cliff top ledge. My lens, a 300mm, wasn't quite wide angle enough to take in this truly hard won scene so I added a +1 dioptre supplementary lens to deliver an effective focal length of about 230mm. Exposed at f64 the negative was good enough for a nice contact print. I don't possess the iron discipline to walk so far and hurt so much just to concede defeat in the interests of optical rectitude.