4x5 Camera

[Pedro_fiz]

Hello.
I am from Spain. I have some film cameras for 35mm and medium format. I am thinking to buy my first large format and I have different options I am not sure:

- Graflex 4x5 with Ektar 152 by eBay USA
- Wista 4x5 (with Fujinon) by eBay Japan
- Chamonix 4x5 and a Fujinon or Nikkor (no expensive)
- Other...

Which one would you recommend?

The Graflex is cheaper but is it good enough? Is it fully compatible with other lenses?

Thank you very much for your time.

[Two23]

What do you want to take photos of? They are different cameras. I have a Chamonix and really like it.


Kent in SD

[Pedro_fiz]

What do you want to take photos of? They are different cameras. I have a Chamonix and really like it.


Kent in SD

I like the camera for cities/street and landscapes but I will do some portraits.

[Dan Fromm]

OP, you said "Graflex." Graflex is a make (includes view cameras, press cameras and SLRs) and a model (SLR). Which did you mean? If a press camera, which version?

If you meant Speed Graphic, these are a little hostile to wide angle lenses, their minimum extension is ~ 67 mm. If you want to use short lenses on a relatively inexpensive body that's light, a Crown Graphic (minimum extension 52.4 mm) would be preferable.

This site has resources that you may not have used. Go up to www.largeformatphotography.info (click on the LF Home Page button at the upper left of the screen) and read the FAQs. Go to the lenses forum, click on the link in the first post in the sticky "Where to look ..." and buy one of the books on LF recommended in it.

For most of us, the first LF camera was the wrong LF camera. The first camera served to teach us what we liked/disliked and needed.

[Pedro_fiz]

Yes, it is a speed graphic. I think I will use lenses upper than 67mm considering my photo needs.
Thank you for the link.

[John Kasaian]

Speed Graphics are hand holdable so they add a lot of flexibility to street photography and portraiture. A Crown Graphic Special, with the correct cam for your chosen lens, has a top mounted rangefinder which adds to the flexibility as well as being simpler (IMHO) since there is no built in shutter curtain. Check out www.graflex.org
Maybe not so much for landscapes though.

[Pedro_fiz]

Speed Graphics are hand holdable so they add a lot of flexibility to street photography and portraiture. A Crown Graphic Special, with the correct cam for your chosen lens, has a top mounted rangefinder which adds to the flexibility as well as being simpler (IMHO) since there is no built in shutter curtain. Check out www.graflex.org
Maybe not so much for landscapes though.Thank you. Very interesting.
This is the camera I have in my ebay basket, but I am not sure. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190919/330c4b39c6f75b31b80898a3fec21f83.jpg

[otto.f]

I wouldn’t be sure either if I were you. The best camera in this category is the Linhof Master Technica. I owned that one, but sold it. It has a rangefinder too and this suggests that you work quick in the field. In practice, I never work fast with LF. I’ve got my Leica for that kind of work, or whatever. The compact, folded idea is nice, but the Chamonix has that too and is very much lighter. I do not need the robustness of a heavy metal 4x5, because it’s not being used that often. Swings, tilts, etc. are limited compared to a Chamonix. The advantage of Chamonix is that it is a working factory, the brand is not that expensive, and it has.....: immense nice filmholders which are sturdy, new, and reliable (wood and carbon). I find all these plastic secondhand filmholders, if you can find them, scary; you’re never certain whether they’re closed right, etc. Other accessories for your 4x5 you later want to add are always available for your Chamonix. If something is missing on your Graflex or so you are searching endlessly on eBay

[Pere Casals]

my first large format

As it is your first one I'll get a cheap monorail, this is 155€ plus shipping:

195660
https://www.ebay.es/itm/Cambo-SC-II-4x5-View-Camera/254282046989?hash=item3b34641e0d:g:o6kAAOSwzUVdGgSO


A monorail has all movements so it's ideal to learn and to practice. It would also help you to understand what features you want and what limitations you would allow in a future field camera. This is a modular camera system, so you may attach several cameras inline ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/27823423611/ ) for any need, you have "unlimited" bellows draw.

A rail of the cambo can be DIY made with any 25mm square pipe, just cut the length you want. It's also sturdy, just the kind of camera you may throw downhill and all that can be broken are those stones in the camera path.


It weights a bit more than 4kg, so it cannot be recommended for long hikes, anyway many LF practitioners want to have a monorail in his arsenal, so its a good starting point.

Another remarkable piece of gear suitable to start in LF would be a SINAR Norma, first all metal camera ever (from 1948, IIRC), quite more refined than a CAMBO SC, but more expensive and less sturdy, see here how it handles a near 2kg lens in the front standard:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/47092537484/
Ansel Adams used (at least) the 5x7" variant, here with the 4x5 reduction back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-ZCEXWdIMg

To me best way is to start is a monorail and to get a lot of fun practicing all movements, the 155€ investment is worth because with that learning you will later make less mistakes in gear acquisition.

____


The same with lenses, don't spend much money in glass until you learn what you want. A general usage lens can do all, but LF lenses (I guess) have way more nuances than in smaller formats. There are specialized glass for landscape (lightweight, hikking), architecture (large circle) or for portraiture (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/portrait-lenses/)

I'd start with a 150€ Symmar 150mm f/5.6 convertible to 265mm f/12 (https://www.ebay.es/itm/Schneider-Kreuznach-Symmar-150-5-6-Convertible-Large-Format/303287429487?hash=item469d56e96f:g:eLIAAOSw4lNdf~3r)

https://www.kenrockwell.com/schneider/150.htm
https://kenrockwell.com/tech/exposure-large-format.htm

These are two focals for 150€, it is single coated so you will learn to control flare.

____

You'll have to invest in many fields, so you should keep some bugget for film, film holders, development gear, tripod, focusing loupe, meter, dark cloth, and perhaps a well equipped darkroom with enlarger, paper...

[Pedro_fiz]

As it is your first one I'll get a cheap monorail, this is 155€ plus shipping:

195660
https://www.ebay.es/itm/Cambo-SC-II-4x5-View-Camera/254282046989?hash=item3b34641e0d:g:o6kAAOSwzUVdGgSO


A monorail has all movements so it's ideal to learn and to practice. It would also help you to understand what features you want and what limitations you would allow in a future field camera. This is a modular camera system, so you may attach several cameras inline ( https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/27823423611/ ) for any need, you have "unlimited" bellows draw.

A rail of the cambo can be DIY made with any 25mm square pipe, just cut the length you want. It's also sturdy, just the kind of camera you may throw downhill and all that can be broken are those stones in the camera path.


It weights a bit more than 4kg, so it cannot be recommended for long hikes, anyway many LF practitioners want to have a monorail in his arsenal, so its a good starting point.

Another remarkable piece of gear suitable to start in LF would be a SINAR Norma, first all metal camera ever (from 1948, IIRC), quite more refined than a CAMBO SC, but more expensive and less sturdy, see here how it handles a near 2kg lens in the front standard:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/47092537484/
Ansel Adams used (at least) the 5x7" variant, here with the 4x5 reduction back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-ZCEXWdIMg

To me best way is to start is a monorail and to get a lot of fun practicing all movements, the 155€ investment is worth because with that learning you will later make less mistakes in gear acquisition.

____


The same with lenses, don't spend much money in glass until you learn what you want. A general usage lens can do all, but LF lenses (I guess) have way more nuances than in smaller formats. There are specialized glass for landscape (lightweight, hikking), architecture (large circle) or for portraiture (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/portrait-lenses/)

I'd start with a 150€ Symmar 150mm f/5.6 convertible to 265mm f/12 (https://www.ebay.es/itm/Schneider-Kreuznach-Symmar-150-5-6-Convertible-Large-Format/303287429487?hash=item469d56e96f:g:eLIAAOSw4lNdf~3r)

https://www.kenrockwell.com/schneider/150.htm
https://kenrockwell.com/tech/exposure-large-format.htm

These are two focals for 150€, it is single coated so you will learn to control flare.

____

You'll have to invest in many fields, so you should keep some bugget for film, film holders, development gear, tripod, focusing loupe, meter, dark cloth, and perhaps a well equipped darkroom with enlarger, paper...Many, many thanks.
I am going to evaluate and consider.

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[Pedro_fiz]

I wouldn’t be sure either if I were you. The best camera in this category is the Linhof Master Technica. I owned that one, but sold it. It has a rangefinder too and this suggests that you work quick in the field. In practice, I never work fast with LF. I’ve got my Leica for that kind of work, or whatever. The compact, folded idea is nice, but the Chamonix has that too and is very much lighter. I do not need the robustness of a heavy metal 4x5, because it’s not being used that often. Swings, tilts, etc. are limited compared to a Chamonix. The advantage of Chamonix is that it is a working factory, the brand is not that expensive, and it has.....: immense nice filmholders which are sturdy, new, and reliable (wood and carbon). I find all these plastic secondhand filmholders, if you can find them, scary; you’re never certain whether they’re closed right, etc. Other accessories for your 4x5 you later want to add are always available for your Chamonix. If something is missing on your Graflex or so you are searching endlessly on eBayThank you. Chamonix is a waranty to avoid problems, more expensive but probably the best choice I am considering.

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[Pedro_fiz]

Another question I have:
I use b&w and color film and I develop both at home.
Is it easy to find color film for 4x5?

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[Two23]

Another question I have:
I use b&w and color film and I develop both at home.
Is it easy to find color film for 4x5?

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Yes, best selection of any of the large format. And the least expensive by far.


Kent in SD

[Bob Salomon]

All metal Linhof Technikas predated Sinar Norma by multiple decades.

[Pere Casals]

All metal Linhof Technikas predated Sinar Norma by multiple decades.

In LF, 14 years (1934), before that Technikas were MF, but you are right, "the Norma first all metal camera ever" is absolutely wrong, I guess that the Norma is first all metal system camera, "achieved by means of standardized components carefully designed to form a highly versatile building block system".

[Jac@stafford.net]

Keep it simple.

195664

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Printex_Press

[Pere Casals]

Is it easy to find color film for 4x5?


It's easy, but also consider using a 120 format back in the view camera rear to shot 6x12cm for example. Color sheet film is crazy expensive compared to 120 format.

Film cost for a 6x12cm Provia shot is $1.4, while 4x5 shot is around $4, which makes 6x12cm a nice choice for (panoramic) landscape. For portrait you may use Portra in 120 rolls in the camera back in 6x9 or 6x8, while you conserve full movements and a lot of image quality.

Fuji and kodak have very high prices (x2) for sheet film compared to the same surface in 120 roll film, ilford and Foma keeps similar per surface price. Maufacturers have a pricing policy, you decide what you do.

[Bob Salomon]

In LF, 14 years (1934), before that Technikas were MF, but you are right, "the Norma first all metal camera ever" is absolutely wrong, I guess that the Norma is first all metal system camera, "achieved by means of standardized components carefully designed to form a highly versatile building block system".

Why don’t you do proper research? Just go to Linhof History on their web site.

“1889

Construction of Valentin Linhof’s first all-metal camera based on the design of – Joseph Barth , a precision engineer from Munich using aluminium instead brass. The format 9 x 12 cm came in two versions: for plates and rollfilm. For the first time the camera was square. By rotating the groundglass screen the format coud be switched from upright to horizontal pictures without removing the camera from the tripod.”

This was 1889.

“Die Technika-Serie wird in den Versionen 6×9 cm und 9×12 cm gebaut.”

1936

[Pere Casals]

Why don’t you do proper research? Just go to Linhof History on their web site.

“1889

Construction of Valentin Linhof’s first all-metal camera based on the design of – Joseph Barth , a precision engineer from Munich using aluminium instead brass. The format 9 x 12 cm came in two versions: for plates and rollfilm. For the first time the camera was square. By rotating the groundglass screen the format coud be switched from upright to horizontal pictures without removing the camera from the tripod.”

This was 1889.

“Die Technika-Serie wird in den Versionen 6×9 cm und 9×12 cm gebaut.”

1936

Bob, I did some research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linhof

First Large Format technika: 1934, the Linhof 34


What Pre 1934 Technika is LF ?? (9x12cm or 4x5) http://linhof.com/en/historische-kameras-2/

6x9cm are MF...

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, I did some research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linhof

First Large Format technika: 1934, the Linhof 34


What Pre 1934 Technika is LF ?? (9x12cm or 4x5) http://linhof.com/en/historische-kameras-2/

6x9cm are MF...

9x12cm is the Continental version of 45. Linhof is a continental company. They worked with the metric system. 45 would be an awkward dimension in metric.

[Bernice Loui]

Consider the prints to be made first, then lenses required achieve them, the post exposed film process to achieve the print in mind, camera comes last as it should be the print in mind that drives camera-lens choice. There is no single ideal LF camera or ideal LF lens for all image making needs. There are limits with specific LF cameras when they are expected to work with specific lenses required to achieve the finished print in mind.


Bernice



Hello.
I am from Spain. I have some film cameras for 35mm and medium format. I am thinking to buy my first large format and I have different options I am not sure:

- Graflex 4x5 with Ektar 152 by eBay USA
- Wista 4x5 (with Fujinon) by eBay Japan
- Chamonix 4x5 and a Fujinon or Nikkor (no expensive)
- Other...

Which one would you recommend?

The Graflex is cheaper but is it good enough? Is it fully compatible with other lenses?

Thank you very much for your time.

[Pedro_fiz]

Keep it simple.

195664

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Printex_PressIt could be a good option to start in LF, but probably it is very difficult to find one in good working conditions, don't you think so?
Thanks

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[prado333]

I live in Spain and for sure color negative sheet film is expensive and difficult to find except in Madrid and Barcelona , you can buy it online cheaper .

[Jimi]

Consider the prints to be made first, then lenses required achieve them, the post exposed film process to achieve the print in mind, camera comes last as it should be the print in mind that drives camera-lens choice.
Bernice

I wish I had understood this when I started out. The only advice I can give, apart from what Bernice wrote, is to get something cheap, just to dip your toe in there and see if the whole process is for you. Going on a shopping tour buying new equipment is a bit crazy, given you are just starting out. Europe is full of nice secondhand cameras just waiting to be used. :)

[Pedro_fiz]

Hello.
Finally I bougth a Camera Graflex Crown Graphic, reasonable Good conditions.
Here's my first photo: Ilford FP4+ 125, HC-110 and Epson V800.
Thank you so much for your help!!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48990733718_d341f61d27_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hD9jjJ)GRAFLEX-2019- (3)A (https://flic.kr/p/2hD9jjJ) by pedro_fiz (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26233455@N04/), en Flickr

[David Richards]

congratulations, looks good

[Jim Jones]

Pedro -- You're off to a good start with the Graflex. There are enough good subjects waiting to be photographed to keep you busy with just that camera and lens for the rest of your life. For more information on this camera in addition to links posted earlier, the book Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan and Lester (or just Morgan in the latest editions) has much information. You will need the 8th edition of 1947 or later to cover your camera.

[Pedro_fiz]

Pedro -- You're off to a good start with the Graflex. There are enough good subjects waiting to be photographed to keep you busy with just that camera and lens for the rest of your life. For more information on this camera in addition to links posted earlier, the book Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan and Lester (or just Morgan in the latest editions) has much information. You will need the 8th edition of 1947 or later to cover your camera.Thank you. I will look for the book.

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[gimenosaiz]

Hello.
Finally I bougth a Camera Graflex Crown Graphic, reasonable Good conditions.
Here's my first photo: Ilford FP4+ 125, HC-110 and Epson V800.
Thank you so much for your help!!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48990733718_d341f61d27_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hD9jjJ)GRAFLEX-2019- (3)A (https://flic.kr/p/2hD9jjJ) by pedro_fiz (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26233455@N04/), en Flickr

Hi!!
Congratulations for that fantastic first shot!! "Puente nuevo" in Salamanca :-)

Saludos ;-)
Antonio

[Jim Noel]

Hello.
I am from Spain. I have some film cameras for 35mm and medium format. I am thinking to buy my first large format and I have different options I am not sure:

- Graflex 4x5 with Ektar 152 by eBay USA
- Wista 4x5 (with Fujinon) by eBay Japan
- Chamonix 4x5 and a Fujinon or Nikkor (no expensive)
- Other...

Which one would you recommend?

The Graflex is cheaper but is it good enough? Is it fully compatible with other lenses?

Thank you very much for your time.

The Speed GRaphic is excellent at images for which it is designed, fast ones for news or sports. it is not a general use field camera. it is slow, heavy with very limited movements and far less useful for you than either of the others you listed.

[Pedro_fiz]

The Speed GRaphic is excellent at images for which it is designed, fast ones for news or sports. it is not a general use field camera. it is slow, heavy with very limited movements and far less useful for you than either of the others you listed.But it is cheaper, and a good choice to start in LF. Once I finish my "qualification" I will see other options for evolution and most important goals.
Many thanks!!

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