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Serge J-F. Levy
15-Nov-2005, 19:07
Hey. This should be another simple question that will get me several different answers, but I hope to make an educated judgment from your input. Since I have researched the forum pretty well, I understand there are varying opinions about the use of this combination of film, developer, diultion, etc.; for the time being, please advise if you have used this combination and what your times are. I am choosing to NOT trust Kodak's information since their times are radically different than mine for the similar scenario with Tri-X sheet film.

The film: Tmax 100 readyload (4x5 sheets)

Developer: Xtol 1:1 at 70 degrees

Tank: Jobo Expert 3010 on a rotary base

Thank you.

-Serge

Paul Butzi
15-Nov-2005, 19:17
see www.butzi.net/articles/tuning1.htm (http://www.butzi.net/articles/tuning1.htm)

You will need to adjust for temp difference, my times are for 68F.

Amund BLix Aaeng
15-Nov-2005, 20:25
Hi Paul, when can we expect part two? :-)

Amund

Paul Butzi
15-Nov-2005, 21:17
Hi Paul, when can we expect part two? :-)

Well, originally I'd hoped I'd have the actual testing/research part done by mid summer.

Life, however, has a way of interfering. It's not just that there are personal commitments with a higher priority (like, for instance, my kids). It's that there's a frustratingly large amount of stuff backed up, including a couple hundred sheets of film that are sitting there, waiting to be developed/scanned/printed.

And this morning, when I went out to photograph, the day dawned with the valley full of wonderful fog drifting downstream, and a nice cloudbreak over the Cascades, and the sunrise was just awesome.

Given the lengthy list of things that have conspired to keep me out of the field, it just feels good to get out and make some photographs with the breeze in my face, and the fog wetting my jacket, and the sound of the river in the background.

So the testing will probably wait a while. Don't give up hope. The rainy season has begun here in the Specific Northwet, so I'll have ample indoor days in the near future.

Serge J-F. Levy
15-Nov-2005, 21:30
Paul, great resource. Thank you and if I had a single extra red cent, I would make a voluntary donation. Maybe when this project I am working on is done, I will have that red cent. In the meantime, would it be safe to say that TMAX shot at 100 in XTOL 1:1 @ 70 would be appx. 8.2 minutes? I base that on your 75 for 6.8 minutes.

Best,
Serge

Paul Butzi
15-Nov-2005, 21:40
Other direction - higher temps give shorter times, not longer.

I'll take a crack at estimating a time for you tomorrow AM. I'd do it now but I'm on the outside of about half a liter of a nice Badia a Coltibuono chianti and so I'm suffering from both a certain deficit of the higher mental faculties and a distinct diminution of the old motivation.

Tomorrow, though. For sure.

Philippe Bedfert
16-Nov-2005, 02:29
Dear Serge

For a Subject Brightness Range of 7 stop, your time should be 7:15.

John Flavell
16-Nov-2005, 06:18
"I'd do it now but I'm on the outside of about half a liter of a nice Badia a Coltibuono chianti and so I'm suffering from both a certain deficit of the higher mental faculties and a distinct diminution of the old motivation"



Paul:

I really wanted to see your estimate under those conditions.

Serge J-F. Levy
16-Nov-2005, 07:33
hey Paul; maybe the orange juice I was drinking last night was spiked or you were indeed as schnockered as indicated. Anyhow, I think my question still stands correct: the time I saw listed for developing TMAX 100 in Xtol 1:1 was for 75 degrees. So, if I process it at a LOWER temperature of 70 degrees then I would need to extend the time. Is there a time for 68 degrees (1:1) on your site already? I thought I researched it pretty carefully.

Thanks,
Serge

Paul Butzi
16-Nov-2005, 08:09
Well, see? If nothing else, aren't you glad I didn't break out my notes and calculate a time last night?

Yes, you're right, of course. I have no excuse except that my eyes saw your '75' and my brain thought '68'.

Paul Butzi
16-Nov-2005, 10:41
Kodak (at www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f4016.jhtml?id=0.1.18.14.23.18.16&lc=en#rotary-tubeprocessingórollsandsheets (http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f4016.jhtml?id=0.1.18.14.23.18.16&lc=en#rotary-tubeprocessingórollsandsheets)) list the development time for TMX in XTOL 1+1, rotary processing, as 9 minutes at 70f, 7.75 minutes at 75f.

If I wanted to find a starting point for 70f, in my darkroom, I'd take my 75F time (6.8 minutes) and scale it using the Kodak numbers - that is, I'd multiply my 6.8 minute time by (9/7.75).

The result (according to Excel) is 7.9 minutes.

It would be worth doing your own development testing - with good estimates for the times, it really only takes three development runs to get completely dialed in.

ronald moravec
16-Nov-2005, 11:09
I can`t help with times except to suggest you do some tests of your house, car, dog or whatever before you commit good film to an unknown process.

Next make sure you use enough stock developer so it doesn`t poop out before the end of the cycle. 4 oz of stock for 4/5 sheets is about right. That makes it difficult to do 10 sheets with the 270/300 cc total allowed.

Paul Butzi
16-Nov-2005, 11:30
I don't know where Ronald got the 270/300 ml figures for the 3010 drum, but they're wrong.

I have been told directly by the staff at Jobo that the minimum solution volume for the 3010 is 210ml (which is what is on the label on the drum) and the maximum is 1 liter.

Kodak list the capacity of XTOL as 100 ml of full strength developer for every 80 square inches of film to be developed. (Don't blame me, that's the way they list it, complete with the mix of metric and english measurements).

Four sheets of 4x5 is 80 sq. in. The drum holds 10 sheets, for a total of 200 square inches, so we need 250 ml of stock solution in the drum to run 10 sheets.

If we're diluting 1+1, that means we need 500ml of diluted developer, which falls comfortably between the 210ml minimum and the 1000ml maximum for the 3010 drum.

ronald moravec
17-Nov-2005, 02:04
My recommended volumes came on the instructions furnished with the drum when I bought it.
I also have a bound book with similar volumn recommendations. It was written about 20 years ago.

I have heard of others using using high volumns, but then the drum gets very heavy putting a lot of stress on the machine.

Perhaps Jobo has changed their recomendations?

Oren Grad
17-Nov-2005, 07:23
Ronald, if you go here (http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/products/3000.htm) and scroll down a bit, you'll see a table in which Jobo clearly specifies minimum and maximum solution quantities for the Expert drums.

That said, my impression in actual use has been that the motor strains pretty visibly when the volumes get above 600ml or so in the larger drums (e.g., 3005), so I don't ever go that far. (Yes, my CPA-2 is late enough to have the most recent motor hardware.) I think 500ml in a 3010 should be fine.