XTOL Replenished Facts vs Fables

[Tin Can]

I read a lot about XTOL on APUG from the usual suspects.

Let's start with the KODAK XTOL Data Sheet (https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/uat/files/wysiwyg/pro/chemistry/J-109_Feb_2018.pdf).

The experts say, keep air out, with full to the top bottles, floating lids, inert gas, N2 Burst in deep tanks.

and replenished aged XTOL may last years to be the BEST XTOL!

However KODAK allows inversion, rolling tanks, open trays, deep tank Dip & Dunk, N2 Burst Tanks, all which I would think could add a lot of air over time to any replenished developer.

Perhaps a chemist can explain how large area air exposed XTOL fluid surfaces with agitation waves, remain air free...

Over time...over months...

Or is simple evaporation the real problem?

I don't know the answer.

[Maris Rusis]

My replenished Xtol has been working since 2007 so it must be well seasoned by now. Between developing sessions it is kept in full-to-the-top oxygen impermeable bottles. I do a lot of open tray constant agitation sheet film development so the Xtol sees plenty of air and obviously encounters some oxidation.
The answer to the problem is that I replenish at a rate of 90ml per film instead of the 70ml per film that Kodak recommends. Xtol activity initially reduced a little as the original mix became seasoned but that activity has now remained stable for years.
My impression is that replenished Xtol settles to an activity level that depends on the replenishment rate. Doing film sheets in trays, one at a time, in pitch blackness can get tedious so I don't mind if my Xtol develops a bit faster and gets me out of the darkroom sooner.

[Duolab123]

I have been using XTOL since it's debut. I used it replenished in 1/2 gallon hard rubber tanks and Paterson tanks. At some point, I went to 1:1 in Paterson, 1 shot. A few years back I picked up a couple Jobo machines. I have never tried to replenish XTOL that came out of a Jobo. I have never tried to replenish ANY developer that has been through a Jobo. I'm sure people do it, but developer is cheap and film and time aren't.
Replenished systems rely on Volume of film, ideally a deep tank sees a scientific term "crap loads" . I'm mshchem on APUG, I've literally used a 11 year old soda bottle of XTOL stock to develop a roll of film with excellent results, I was shocked. And XTOL does eventually turn color, this stuff looked like Budweiser without the bubbles.
XTOL requires pure water, that's sure and certain.
If you want cheap bulletproof developer. Mix your own D76, use it for a bit and start over.

[Tin Can]

Thanks Maris and Duolab123.

I respect both your experiences.

[Sal Santamaura]

...I'm mshchem on APUG...What is this "APUG" thing, Mike? :)

[NHE]

I can add that I’ve had my replenished Xtol(2 Liter volume) for around 1.5 years. It’s been used for rotary processing 4x5 in a Jobo tank and 8x10 sheets in open trays. Like Maris I also replenish more than 70ml, typically 100ml per 80sq-in of film. I only use distilled water when mixing and store my stock solution in wine bags with all the air removed and the replenished volume in a 2L Pyrex media bottle.

I have get consistent results and while I have not done any serious testing the developer did not seem to lose any activity over the year and a half. I think the reason it can last indefinitely in a replenishment system has to do with the fact that it is self replenishing and that in my case at least, after 20 sheets of 8x10 I’ve “replaced” the entire volume of my system.

[Mark Sampson]

Edgar Praus uses (or did use) replenished XTOL as the standard B/W developer at his custom lab, Praus Productions, in Rochester NY. You might ask him; He's pretty busy so email might be better than telephone.
(I had some experience with XTOL in my later days at Kodak. There we used it diluted 1:1 as a one-shot in a Wing-Lynch 4E processor. Worked very well for our uses there.)

[Ulophot]

APUG (Analogue Photography Users Group) is now Photrio.com

[Sal Santamaura]

APUG (Analogue Photography Users Group) is now Photrio.comI knew that, Phillip. I was being a wise guy to Mike. Thus the smiley.

[Duolab123]

What is this "APUG" thing, Mike? :)

Ha!

[Sirius Glass]

I have used replenished XTOL in the Jobo processor for years for 35mm, 120 and 4"x5". I have recently changed to storing in squeezable containers that can push all [well sometimes almost all the air out]. I just get stable and consistent results with good sharpness, small grain and very smooth tonality.

[Duolab123]

I have used replenished XTOL in the Jobo processor for years for 35mm, 120 and 4"x5". I have recently changed to storing in squeezable containers that can push all [well sometimes almost all the air out]. I just get stable and consistent results with good sharpness, small grain and very smooth tonality.

I don't doubt it. I am used to one shot on the Jobo. I was replenishing Flexicolor C-41 for months until someone pointed me to the Kodak directions that said don't do that. My bad!

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

FWIW, I tried replenishing XTOL (referred to as XTOL-R by some) when using a JOBO and figured I just wasn't good at working with replenishment. Found I wasn't alone, and a number of other folks had similar experiences with oxidation, and so did a little research. Even Omer Hecht at CatLabs suggested the Jobo might not be the best way to utilize XTOL-R as it tends toward maximum oxidation. I did in fact try to up my game in adopting containers to minimize oxidation, but instead of using collapsible wine-type containers as many do, switched to hard plastic drug/chem type containers of varying sizes. Still didn't work for me. Found a number of others who'd also bailed on debugging a process to make XTOL-R work for them in a Jobo, but felt no shame in the end - though a degree of disappointment because I wanted to follow the promise of greater accutance and superior tonality that it's supposed to give in an environmentally friendly form. Sirius Glass is to be commended for breaking the code, but fairly, if your development is by hand or dunk or something similar, maybe this just isn't an issue and you're "free to move about the country". But with a Jobo or similar high rotation processor, it seems likely exhaustion will require more figuring in terms of what will work for you. How much more... I can't say.... 'cause... I moved on.

For me, the thought of the time and expense to really get this figured led me to consider there were more fruitful paths. I switched developers - first to ID-11 and then Bergger's Berspeed (recommend by Omer Hect when I called to discuss options) - to use with my Jobo. The latter is particularly sweet IMHO (NOTE: Freestyle now likens BerSpeed to Acufine). Would have like to have seen the XTOL-R process work because many do beautiful work with it. I wonder if the question is whether you're more committed to your processing technique or more committed to your developer - XTOL-R... and it may be "either / or" with PERHAPS an exclusive path for each.

For my part, the process itself is secondary to producing consistent results; my commitment was to the JOBO because I wanted (needed?) to remove agitation as a variable in my development process at the time. And one day, that may change, but not for now. Meantime, I tip my hat to those who find it works.