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fulltang
26-Aug-2019, 22:26
Hello everyone! Recently decided to sell most of my digital equipment to fund a Chamonix 0-45n2 and I'm preparing to develop my first shots - the first film I've developed in a decade, and first sheet film ever.

I created a quick checklist for my first go as a starting point, most of which is derived from Tim Klein's videos and the Ilford documentation. I would greatly appreciate any opinions and suggestions. :)

4x5 HP5+ / HC-110 (Dilution H) / SP-445 rev 4 / Ilford Rapid Fixer / IlfoStop / LFN Wetting agent / Water temp 72


4 beakers prepped with developer/fix/stop/distiled water
Add developer
Tap SP-445 a couple times
Squeeze until liquid rises a bit, tighten vent cap first
Start timer
Agitate - 4 inversions every 30 seconds
Develop for 9:21 (Includes temp/time conversion)
Stop for 30 seconds - 4 inversions
Fix for 5 minutes - 4 inversions every minute
Fill with tap water, slosh it around, dump x 2
Fill with tap water, cap, invert gently for 30 seconds
Fill with tap water, cap, inversion agitation for 60 seconds x 3
Fill with with distilled water, add 2 drops of LFN, cap, inversion agitation 30 seconds
Take off lid, pull film out while still submerged and hang to dry

Steven Ruttenberg
27-Aug-2019, 08:26
For inverting make sure you rotate about the long axis (with the fill/vent caps on the left and right as you face the tank) otherwise you most like will get swirl marks. For rinsing, i do not fill and empty, I place under the faucet and let water in the fill side and drain out the vent side for 10 minutes at a slow to medium pace. I put photoflo into a developing tray, take the holders out and place in the tray and lightly agitate for a few seconds to cover film. Then film slides out of holders easily and I hang and dry. I blot corners with paper towel after hanging for a bit, but some say that part is not needed. Habit i guess. Make sure you use at least 450mm (a bit more if you do not put both holders into the tank) I am between 450 and 500, but experimenting to find the best volume.

Alan9940
27-Aug-2019, 09:57
You might want to consider a pre-soak for 2-5 mins with water. This is a controversial subject, but I've used a water pre-soak with many B&W films over the years and never noticed any issue from doing it. Also, whichever dilution of HC-110 you use make sure you have, at least, 6ml of concentrate in the final working solution.

fulltang
27-Aug-2019, 18:31
For inverting make sure you rotate about the long axis (with the fill/vent caps on the left and right as you face the tank) otherwise you most like will get swirl marks. For rinsing, i do not fill and empty, I place under the faucet and let water in the fill side and drain out the vent side for 10 minutes at a slow to medium pace. I put photoflo into a developing tray, take the holders out and place in the tray and lightly agitate for a few seconds to cover film. Then film slides out of holders easily and I hang and dry. I blot corners with paper towel after hanging for a bit, but some say that part is not needed. Habit i guess. Make sure you use at least 450mm (a bit more if you do not put both holders into the tank) I am between 450 and 500, but experimenting to find the best volume.

Good tips! About the washing technique, what you described is the same as described in one of tims older videos, and in a more recent one he recommended a "modified ilford technique" (what I listed above). Do you think there is a big difference in the real world between the two techniques? I realize I'll need a fixer test to be sure regardless.


You might want to consider a pre-soak for 2-5 mins with water. This is a controversial subject, but I've used a water pre-soak with many B&W films over the years and never noticed any issue from doing it. Also, whichever dilution of HC-110 you use make sure you have, at least, 6ml of concentrate in the final working solution.

What's the advantage of the pre-wash?

Steven Ruttenberg
27-Aug-2019, 19:17
Prewash helps to remove the ant-halation layer. I think it works myself. I don't know if there is a real world difference between continuous or what you describe other than maybe it saves water, but I suppose you could always experiment to see if you prefer one over the other as far as washing. I fix for the specified time and have not had an issue.

Alan9940
27-Aug-2019, 21:16
In addition to what Steven said, it also helps the developer to "sink" into the emulsion more evenly at start of development. Think about a sponge...it will absorb moisture more uniformly when slightly wet vs dry.

Kinografx
27-Aug-2019, 21:38
I would also add this step:

Relax and Enjoy the process

And also realize you can really mess things up and still end up with printable negs. I started a development a while back by filling the tank with fix - then screaming- then rinsing in a panic, then developing (adding about 10% more time on the fly) and still got ok negs.

Not advocating careless sloppiness, but anyway, Have fun!

esearing
28-Aug-2019, 04:55
My $0.02

1) Until it becomes second nature - do one sheet at a time. You will need 475-500ml of developer without the second holder in place.
2) Ilford products - presoak 5 mins at developer temperature.
3) long initial agitation. 1-2 minutes.
4) Final Step - NO PHOTOFLOW IN THE TANK OR HOLDERS !!! It leaves a residue that carries over to the next batch if you don't clean it properly.
5) for faster pouring in - file down the minimum depth indicator in the lid.
6) Buy a second tank and work them back to back for more productivity. Its hard to do two at one time unless you are doing a semi-stand method.
7) lubricate the o-ring on the lid with silicone, wipe off - Oil from your skin/face will also work for a short time.

Steven Ruttenberg
28-Aug-2019, 09:38
Never thought about filing down the fill indicator. That may remove the small errors I still get when developing. I always pondered if not being able to fill and empty fast enough was causing small problems I see intermittently from time to time.

Bob Salomon
28-Aug-2019, 09:49
You might want to consider a pre-soak for 2-5 mins with water. This is a controversial subject, but I've used a water pre-soak with many B&W films over the years and never noticed any issue from doing it. Also, whichever dilution of HC-110 you use make sure you have, at least, 6ml of concentrate in the final working solution.

There certainly is an effect, the longer the film is wet the larger the grain!

Alan9940
28-Aug-2019, 12:57
There certainly is an effect, the longer the film is wet the larger the grain!

Can't say I ever noticed grain in my 8x10 negs. ;)

Steven Ruttenberg
28-Aug-2019, 14:04
I have not heard that one before. I will pay attention as I do pre-soak, but not longer than 2 minutes.

esearing
28-Aug-2019, 15:21
There certainly is an effect, the longer the film is wet the larger the grain!

I have seen technical documents that state the duration in the developer has an impact on grain size and it is well known that time, temperature, and agitation all have an effect. Developer chosen has an impact. Exposure has an impact in that longer times expose more grains than shorter times, since the grains not exposed get washed away during processing. Grain size is larger in High ISO films compared to low ISO Film, and certain films have smaller grain particles (TMax, Delta).

But a presoak merely swells the gelatin and allows better absorption of the chemistry and more even distribution (especially for high speed rotational agitation on smaller formats with perforations). I can not find any of my books nor technical articles on the web, that presoaking at the normal developer temperature has any effect on grain size.

Bob Salomon
28-Aug-2019, 16:03
I have seen technical documents that state the duration in the developer has an impact on grain size and it is well known that time, temperature, and agitation all have an effect. Developer chosen has an impact. Exposure has an impact in that longer times expose more grains than shorter times, since the grains not exposed get washed away during processing. Grain size is larger in High ISO films compared to low ISO Film, and certain films have smaller grain particles (TMax, Delta).

But a presoak merely swells the gelatin and allows better absorption of the chemistry and more even distribution (especially for high speed rotational agitation on smaller formats with perforations). I can not find any of my books nor technical articles on the web, that presoaking at the normal developer temperature has any effect on grain size.

The longer the wet time the larger the grain.

Pere Casals
28-Aug-2019, 16:22
But a presoak merely swells the gelatin and allows better absorption of the chemistry and more even distribution (especially for high speed rotational agitation on smaller formats with perforations). I can not find any of my books nor technical articles on the web, that presoaking at the normal developer temperature has any effect on grain size.

Pre-soaking could have been benefical with ancient film types that were manufactured many decades ago, and important masters recommended it.

Modern films from main manufacturers do not need pre-soaking. Presoaking can be harmful because it removes surfactants from the emulsion that are included to ensure an even development, in particular HP5 datasheet says: "A pre-rinse is not recommended as it can lead to uneven processing". (page 3: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1903/product/693/)

Anyway a pre-soaking would not be harmful if it's long enough, a short pre-soaking may lead to problems.

Steven Ruttenberg
28-Aug-2019, 20:09
What about films like Tmax or Acros? And color neg/slide films? How would pre-wash work on them? I do it, and have not noticed any damage to film so to speak.

Pere Casals
29-Aug-2019, 02:24
What about films like Tmax or Acros? And color neg/slide films? How would pre-wash work on them? I do it, and have not noticed any damage to film so to speak.

I guess that Pre-wash won't damage any commercial film, many people use pre-wash without problems. Single rule is not making the pre-wash too short.

Even Kodak says "Prewetting sheet film may improve tray process uniformity" in the tmx datasheet. They say "may", and they are right because if using shuffle method then Pre-wash is necessary, even with ilford film.

My view is that in the other side Pre-wash has no benefit (with the shuffle exception) and, I reiterate, it can lead to uneven develpment if made too short.


There is a film, Vision 3 for cinematography, that is industrially processed with a "Pre-wash", that bath contains chem to remove the remjet protective layer, Cinestill film is Vision 3 with remjet removed so it does not require that step.

younghoon Kil
19-Dec-2021, 19:43
I would like to ask you a question. If I make Dilution G (1:119) with HC-110 developer, it becomes 720 mL using at least 6 mL syrup. This exceeds the capacity of SP-445. In this case, I wonder if it is okay to discard the excess.

esearing
21-Dec-2021, 17:06
I would like to ask you a question. If I make Dilution G (1:119) with HC-110 developer, it becomes 720 mL using at least 6 mL syrup. This exceeds the capacity of SP-445. In this case, I wonder if it is okay to discard the excess.

If you are doing 4 sheets (80sq inches) 6ml is the minimum suggested , so 6 ml in 500ML is about 1:83 so adjust your time accordingly. Or use fewer sheets in the tank.

younghoon Kil
24-Dec-2021, 07:38
I see your point.
Thank you for the information. :)