8x10 Film Choice Paralysis

[sperdynamite]

When I started shooting large format in 2005, if you would have told me I would have a relative cornucopia of choices for 8x10 sheet film in 2019 I don't think I would have believed you.

If you've followed some of my posts you may recall that I am returning to 8x10 after a hiatus. It was too hard to deal with in NYC, but now I live in rural Maine. Have Subaru, will travel. I even have a fancy roof rack to stand on Ansel Adams style. My Gibellini Bellatrix should be arriving this week. A member of this forum sold me a nice Komura 300mm Tessar, and I have the right tank for the Jobo!

But you gotta have film, assuming you don't make it yourself. There are so many! Two Kodak high speed emulsions, double sets of Ilford medium speed stocks, plus HP5 (the absence of Delta 400 is noted here). We're not even counting Ortho Plus which I played with in college.

Then you have Bergger Pancro 400, a film I know little to nothing about, but it looks like it comes in a fantastic box. The Arista line up is here, along with some unfortunately named Foma stocks (ACTION 400!). My understanding is that these are the same films? Who can say? Then you have the rebrands and the weird films from ADOX.

For color we have 3 color negative films from Kodak, and correct me if I'm wrong but 3 color reversals from Fuji? (Assuming they still make RVP100 in sheets). Adding the promise of E100 in sheets some time later, glory be hallelujah.

And to top it all off with a sort of sinful vulgarity, instant stocks in both B&W and Color that seems to be available whey they get around to it.

Who made the deal with the devil to bring about such a garden of analogical delights? I'm stuck here trying to put a B&W film in my shopping cart, committing to multiple dollars per shot. Right now FP4+ is there as 'ol reliable. But of course there is no grain in 8x10 so why not HP5+? Oh but Delta is sharperrrrrrrrr. I'm a little unwilling to pay $10/sheet of TXP or TMY4. Portra seems like a bargain at $154 until you realize that Fuji gives you 20 sheets of Provia per box.

If I ever get around to picking a horse, maybe I'll let you know. I am NOT and I say NOT going to get fancy in the developer section. That kind of navel gazing is for winter print making. :cool:

[Nodda Duma]

Don’t forget you now also have the option of dry plates. :)


Yes in some ways the film industry is healthier than it was even back before digital, from a choice / availability of options perspective. Competition of course drives product development too!

[Pere Casals]

Then you have Bergger Pancro 400, a film I know little to nothing about

If wanting to explore films just buy some 35mm rolls, shot your usual scenes, and bracket exposures and filters. The see tonality, latitude, toe, etc don't consider much grain because 8x10" shows little grain.




correct me if I'm wrong but 3 color reversals from Fuji?

You have 4: Provia, Velvia 50, Velvia 100... and Velvia 100F that it is not sold in all markets, but you can get it.

193847




committing to multiple dollars per shot.

LF is cheap: many times when you shot you (probably) know for sure than you have a great image, if not you simply may not shot.




Oh but Delta is sharperrrrrrrrr.

With 8x10" it is the photographer itself who is sharp or not, film performance won't usually limit image quality. Are you to print 5m high?





But of course there is no grain in 8x10 so why not HP5+?

It depends on print size and developer, at x4 enlargement 8x10 delivers a 1m print for the long side, with xtol I doubt you would see a single grain in 1m print, but just shot a 35mm roll and make 6" prints, you'll see the same grain than in a 1m print from a 8x10" negative.

[Sal Santamaura]

...I'm stuck here trying to put a B&W film in my shopping cart, committing to multiple dollars per shot. Right now FP4+ is there as 'ol reliable. But of course there is no grain in 8x10 so why not HP5+? Oh but Delta is sharperrrrrrrrr.Unless you're equipped and planning to enlarge substantially, I'd not hesitate about going with HP5 Plus. FP4 Plus is slow. Delta's sharpness is wasted in 8x10. Develop the HP5 Plus using XTOL 1+1.5 for nine minutes in a Jobo processor at 75 degrees F. Enjoy. Written by someone who's used all three films in 8x10 with a number of different developers.


...I'm a little unwilling to pay $10/sheet of TXP or TMY4...I've paid the price for 320TXP and TMY-2 but don't suggest you do that until you've spent some time exposing and, most importantly, printing negatives from HP5 Plus. On the other hand, I'd immediately place an order for TMY4 just to see whether Kodak had straightened out the TMAX 400 curve from Zone VI up, where it rises in XTOL. :)

[dasBlute]

keep calm and shoot hp5+ :)

[Charles S]

Foma 100. 1.50 Eur / sheet. Shoot more, get more keepers

[jp]

Have not tried Bergger or dry plates yet.

Ilford and Kodak make good product. I use them both. For 8x10 I have some FP4+, TMY2, 320txp. Tmax 400 has a variety of styles if you haven't played with it... Much different styles with different developers, exposure, development.

Arista/Foma I played with 7-8 years ago and quality was not there. Dirty scratched sheets fresh out of the packaging. Haven't had interest in trying again.

Also Xray film like carestream ektascan b/ra are inexpensive and fun but not as rugged wet as normal Kodak film. But it's cheap fun and I've gotten a few nice photos. Not a full substitute for photographic film.

Ambrotypes/tintype will be an option as well.

I'm fairly well settled on FP4+ and TMY2 for most B&W photography. But it's fun to sample the options for creative and curious purposes.

[DrTang]

I only shoot FP4 (because Tmax 100 is so dang expensive, otherwise…)

because it matches all the other film I shoot in studio, ISO-wise..so there is less mess-ups

take one reading - set all cameras the same - BAM...done

[Pere Casals]

Foma 100. 1.50 Eur / sheet. Shoot more, get more keepers

That price is for 4x5", I guess

[angusparker]

Having shot most of the films you mentioned I’d go with a faster film like HP5 or TX320 and some Fuji E6 like Velvia 50 if you are willing to pay the price. I haven’t had much success yet with scanning c41 but that’s probably my problem not the films.

[Charles S]

That price is for 4x5", I guess
I was a bit too quick. It's actually 2.38 Eur / sheet. Same difference
https://www.macodirect.de/film/schwarzweissfilm/fomapan-100-planfilm-20-3x25-4cm-8x10-50-blatt?c=17

[Jim Noel]

What process do you intend to use to print the negatives? That canmake a big difference in your film choice. Most of the alternative processes require a film which can be expanded to produce a longer scale.

"Also Xray film like carestream ektascan b/ra are inexpensive and fun but not as rugged wet as normal Kodak film. But it's cheap fun and I've gotten a few nice photos. Not a full substitute for photographic film."
The last sentence in this post is incorrect. X-Ray film is a photographic film. Not a substitute, a real film. Being orthochromatic it just has a different response to colors than do panchromatic films. No one should neglect it as a part of their film choices. To ignore it is like a painter not including at least all of the primary colors on their pallet.

[paulbarden]

Over the past few years I have narrowed my film choices to three: Bergger Pancro400, Ilford FP4, and Ilford HP5.

I like Pancro400 a lot, but it is more difficult to get a good exposure with it than the Ilford films. In part this is because it is not really a 400 speed emulsion, it is closer to 200, or even 160 for most developer choices. But when you get a good negative, it is VERY good.
The two Ilford Films are both excellent, the only real difference for me is their speeds. Its nice to use FP4 when lighting allows, and when you need the extra speed, HP5 has you covered. I find it much easier to get consistently good negatives with the two Ilford Films.

[jp]

What process do you intend to use to print the negatives? That canmake a big difference in your film choice. Most of the alternative processes require a film which can be expanded to produce a longer scale.

"Also Xray film like carestream ektascan b/ra are inexpensive and fun but not as rugged wet as normal Kodak film. But it's cheap fun and I've gotten a few nice photos. Not a full substitute for photographic film."
The last sentence in this post is incorrect. X-Ray film is a photographic film. Not a substitute, a real film. Being orthochromatic it just has a different response to colors than do panchromatic films. No one should neglect it as a part of their film choices. To ignore it is like a painter not including at least all of the primary colors on their pallet.

I made a point to include it in the film choices. It's worth having a box. My experience has been that the spectral response is different (orthochromatic) and that's less of an issue if you are shooting in a high color temperature situation (such as dusk). It also did not seem to have as big a subject brightness range as some of the other films. Not a fault, just a design choice we can accommodate.

[Nodda Duma]

jp I think xray film is typically high contrast... not sure if it’s as bad (or good) as ortho litho but that’s what my take is.

A film being Orthochromatic in and of itself does not guarantee those characteristics which I’m sure you know, but it’s worth mentioning.

[Jim Noel]

Modern x-ray film can be processed to be high contrast, moderate contrast and in extreme cases low contrast . I think most of us who use it prefer a moderate amount of contrast, usually with nice, bright highlights. It is not dissimilar to the films in general use in the 1930's and early to late 40's. The major difference i find is that most have emulsion on both sides, and the emulsions do not contain hardeners thus they are soft. I use a single sided with anti-halation backing x-ray film as my general use film, and carry FP4+ for those occasions when i am interested in detail inthe reds.

[Drew Wiley]

I've used nearly all of em successfully. TMY400 is probably the most versatile, but also expensive. FP4 would be second on my list in terms of predictable versatility, but too slow for breezy days. HP5 is lovely if it isn't enlarged too much; so I like it in 8x10 but not in smaller formats. I've never cared for the shotgun grain of Tri-X, but lots of other people like it. I've encountered quality control issues with EU films, so prefer to stick to Kodak and Ilford.

[faberryman]

The boxes are so small, you can easily try several different types. I doubt film choice will make or break an image.

[Two23]

I've been shooting 4x5 & 5x7 and starting this year I process my own. It's not hard.:) I mostly use FP4+ because it has good latitude. I shoot HP5+ when I need the speed. I've also been shooting the Lane dry plates and like them, but I suggest starting with film.


Kent in SD

[Vaughn]

But what do you want the images/prints to look like? :cool:

[Peter De Smidt]

I've used maybe 40 sheets of Ektascan. For some reason I get way more emulsion flaws with it than with other film. Maybe my batch was more prone to this than others. If I were printing optically, this would be a real problem. The other regular films I've processed over the same time, mainly FP4+, have been fine.

[sperdynamite]

Thanks everyone to the earnest responses to what was really a fun writing exercise. Ya'll did actually convince me to switch from FP4+ or Delta to HP5+, because in 8x10 why the heck not? I also got a box of Provia since scanning is largely my work flow.

Can't wait to try it all out!

[peter schrager]

Doesn't't Adox also make 8x10 CHS100 film?? I've used the original version before it disappeared and it was very nice. I do develop in Pyro and the latest version is not recommended by them with this developer.
Overall it's got to be either Foma 100 or FP4. The latter holds it's speed extremely well. I just set the ASA for 100 and have never had a problem.
The foma I'm learning to use in 8x10 and the speed is more like a good 50 ASA
I've used it in 4x5 with little to no problem and really like the tonality...just be a little more careful with processing

[Nodda Duma]

Yeah Peter they make it in 8x10. I have a box that I’m trying to find time to dig in to.

[Drew Wiley]

The rated speeds of both FP4 and Fomapan are overly optimistic. Add a deep contrast filter and you end up with some long exposures at the smaller f-stops typical of 8X10. HP5, on the other hand, and especially TMY, work for me at full 400 speed, and are more practical in this format, at least outdoors.

[Tim V]

The Adox data sheet is confusing, but clearly states that the problem with pyro developers and CHS100II is only with roll film. This is due to an extra anti-halation layer between emulsion and base, which the sheet film does not have. I've long wanted to give it a go but it's harder to get here in New Zealand and a lot more expensive – I envy prices for it in Europe, but it's also the shipping that kills it for me!

I've shot a ton of HP5+ in 8x10" processed only in PMK or Pyrocat-HD and love it, but am now using Bergger Pancro 400 and am really liking the tones. You've got to shoot a good 100 sheets real world to get to know a film and developer combination though, IMHO of course. I like Pancro a lot because it has a very interesting character to my eye; is maybe something to do with the grain structure (negligible in 8x10" sizes, especially with contact printing,) and also the response to different colours across the curve. I expose at EI250 and the shadow details is where I like it.


Doesn't't Adox also make 8x10 CHS100 film?? I've used the original version before it disappeared and it was very nice. I do develop in Pyro and the latest version is not recommended by them with this developer.
Overall it's got to be either Foma 100 or FP4. The latter holds it's speed extremely well. I just set the ASA for 100 and have never had a problem.
The foma I'm learning to use in 8x10 and the speed is more like a good 50 ASA
I've used it in 4x5 with little to no problem and really like the tonality...just be a little more careful with processing

[Charles S]

Doesn't't Adox also make 8x10 CHS100 film?? I've used the original version before it disappeared and it was very nice. I do develop in Pyro and the latest version is not recommended by them with this developer.
Overall it's got to be either Foma 100 or FP4. The latter holds it's speed extremely well. I just set the ASA for 100 and have never had a problem.
The foma I'm learning to use in 8x10 and the speed is more like a good 50 ASA
I've used it in 4x5 with little to no problem and really like the tonality...just be a little more careful with processing

Foma 100 in Microphen can be shot at box speed in my experience. Cheapest way to shoot 8x10 where I live