Strange Dark line in Negative

[Deepak Kumar]

I have got this B/W negative developed in local trusted lab and it has got this strange black line in the negative that is baffling everyone.
This has happened in many negatives I got processed recently. Earlier everything was OK with same lab.

193721


I do not know in which link in the chain is causing it.

[Fred L]

Are the other lines in the same place, more or less ? Looks like a scratch on the emulsion. If you look at the emulsion, can u see anything amiss ?

[koraks]

Scratches. Be careful when handling the film when loading and unloading sheets. Of course, there's a chance the lab was at fault, but they likely handle a lot more sheet film than you do...

[jim_jm]

If it was a scratch in the emulsion, it would show up as clear in the negative and dark in the print. Can you see anything on the surface of either side of the film?

[koraks]

If you scratch an undeveloped emulsion, the scratches become mechanically 'exposed' and will develop density.

[mpirie]

Are the "scratches" the same or similar on each sheet?

Another option i've seen lately (on roll film admittedly) is a very thin hair-like invasion of the image area, which i think is being caused by threads of film base, thinner than a human hair and very difficult to see.

Mike

[Doremus Scudder]

Examine the negative under a loupe for actual physical damage, i.e., a scratch. If there is no scratched away emulsion, then perhaps bending or kinking the sheet of film may have caused this. If the dark lines on other negatives are exactly the same, I'd look for something in the processing; perhaps something touching the negative during development. If the other dark lines are only similar, I'd be more likely to suspect handling.

Best,

Doremus

[koraks]

Benda and kinks tend to leave crescent-shaped marks with gradiated density. They're also more common on roll film than on sheet film. These really look like pre-development scratches to me.

[MusicalPhotog]

Bends and kinks tend to leave crescent-shaped marks with graduated density. They're also more common on roll film than on sheet film. These really look like pre-development scratches to me.

Yeah, I agree. If you look along the film edge, you will see some faint 'handling' scratches made either when the film was loaded in the holder, or when it was loaded in the tank. One of them even appears to protrude into the image area. And they all seem to have some density.

[Alan Klein]

Are the "scratches" the same or similar on each sheet?

Another option i've seen lately (on roll film admittedly) is a very thin hair-like invasion of the image area, which i think is being caused by threads of film base, thinner than a human hair and very difficult to see.

Mike

When I first bought my Mamiya RB67 medium format camera that shoots 120 roll film, all 10 shots on my first roll had a very thin red line showing. I was befuddled? So I took apart the camera. The film back comes off separately. There on the back opening that exposes the film, stuck perfectly straight across at an angle between the top and the bottom was one of my wife's hairs.

Yes, she's a natural redhead. :)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5262942856/in/album-72157625602231872/

[Bruce Watson]

I have got this B/W negative developed in local trusted lab and it has got this strange black line in the negative that is baffling everyone.
This has happened in many negatives I got processed recently. Earlier everything was OK with same lab.

Are the artifacts (the black lines) the same on various negatives, or just similar?

It's unlikely this was caused by something between the scene and the film at exposure time. That is, it's not dust on the unexposed film blocking exposure. It is in fact just the opposite.

It's unlikely to be from a light leak -- the artifact is too well defined.

It's unlikely to be a scratch on the emulsion because that usually leaves clear areas. At least it did when I was tray processing and scratching one sheet with the sharp corners of the sheet on top.

If it were from bending or creasing the film (which can cause density) it wouldn't likely be so well defined, especially on the ends.

This leaves... dirt on the film. Or more likely, some kind of hair or lint. Probably after development. I'd guess from the final rinse, or film drying. And if that's the case, you should be able to see it. Or with lint that size, you should be able to remove it with a good film cleaner (something like PEC-12 that does not contain any water at all so it doesn't soften / swell the emulsion) no matter which side it's on.

Dirt / lint would be much more likely if you are getting similar artifacts from sheet to sheet. If you are getting exactly the same artifact, I'm thinking it's more likely to be a scratch in your light table (or whatever your film is on when you made the picture of the negative for us). If you move your film and the scratch does not move, it implicates the surface under the film.

Or it could be something else entirely. It'll be interesting to see what you determine the cause to be.

[koraks]

> It's unlikely to be a scratch on the emulsion because that usually leaves clear areas.
Not if the scratches occurred when the film was dry, ie before development.

[Deepak Kumar]

All scratches are at different places and of different length & style. There are no visible scratches on the negatives on both side. I have seen negative closely through good loupe. I think pre development scratches could be the reason but I as well as lab technicians have handled the negatives hundreds of time but never faced the problem like this before. I am scanning them now and would post the large file soon.

I have to load all my folders for next project, no being able to identify the cause of such lines, I am just keeping my finger crossed. I am still waiting for definitive answer because scratches usually show up as clear line on negatives.

[Paul Ron]

quick guess... scratched in the holders either loading or unloading.

[G Benaim]

My guess would be scuffs in the pre soak before developer. Do you know how they process the sheet film? If you look at the emulsion side can you see the offending line as a somewhat raised area?

[Deepak Kumar]

I am attaching one more neg image for more info on this issue. As patterns of lines are baffling and not consistent.193935


Above is one corner of the Negative.

[koraks]

Lots of scratches.

[lassethomas]

To me that that looks like some kind of handling problem. Since there is no mechanical damage they could be the result of light in some way. The long streaks gradually coming in and out of "focus" could suggest some source pin light coming more or less in contact to the film.
How do you load/inload your film? Light leaks in changing bag? Any phosphorescent watches?

Well, at least some suggestions

[Deepak Kumar]

Sorry for late reply, I have concluded that it was film handling issue as with the same set up next batch of dozens of negative have
come relatively very clean with only few negative having one or two small scratches.

[scheinfluger_77]

When I first bought my Mamiya RB67 medium format camera that shoots 120 roll film, all 10 shots on my first roll had a very thin red line showing. I was befuddled? So I took apart the camera. The film back comes off separately. There on the back opening that exposes the film, stuck perfectly straight across at an angle between the top and the bottom was one of my wife's hairs.

Yes, she's a natural redhead. :)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5262942856/in/album-72157625602231872/

That look says to me: “Don’t give me none of your yankee, hippie sass”. I like it.

[scheinfluger_77]

Sorry for late reply, I have concluded that it was film handling issue as with the same set up next batch of dozens of negative have
come relatively very clean with only few negative having one or two small scratches.

By you or the lab? Just because a lab has handled well in the past doesn’t mean they don’t have a new guy in there who is untrained or uncaring.

For me personally damage and artifacts are usually my fault.

[Eric Woodbury]

TMX is very sensitive to light (good) and consequently, mechanical damage (not so good). I went round and round with Kodak about this when TMX first came out. Kodak analyzed my film and negs. I'm pretty careful with film handling, but Kodak basically said I was 'heavy handed' with the film. I guess I was. Can't challenge the great yellow father. TMX you can't bend, flex, touch, or smile at without some exposure. I abandoned using the film long ago for this reason. But it is this high sensitivity that gives it the long toe and negligible reciprocity failure.

[Alan Klein]

That look says to me: “Don’t give me none of your yankee, hippie sass”. I like it.

She hasn't changed much all these years later. :)

[Steven Ruttenberg]

How are you storing the film after you shoot it? How do you ship it? I was storing my exposed film in the film box, but they moved around on each other and caused scratches. They all appeared clear on the D100 and Tmax100. I stopped doing that. The black looks line dirty chemicals or contaminated developer. Given their randomness in shape and size and the fact they are dense I lean towards dirty and or contaminated chemicals.

[Ethan]

I've been having this issue lately with my film. Assuming the problem lies with scratching the negative before development, how would you suggest handling them to minimize this issue? I tend to reload using a film changing bag since I don't have a darkroom of my own... might it be a good idea to invest in one of those film changing tents so that the film doesn't come in contact with the bag while loading?