New Cooke XVa Lens Questions

[diversey]

May I buy a new Cooke XVa lens without a shutter and mount it directly to my Copal 3 shutter (from my Nikkor M 450mm F9 lens) to use? Thanks, David

[Bob Salomon]

H
May I buy a new Cooke XVa lens without a shutter and mount it directly to my Copal 3 shutter (from my Nikkor M 450mm F9 lens) to use? Thanks, David

Why not call and ask them? They are in Mountain Lakes, NJ.

[Oren Grad]

From the Cooke website:

The lens can be supplied with or without a Copal #3 shutter. Your choice:

Use an existing recent vintage Copal #3 shutter in your lens collection or purchase a new Copal #3 shutter locally (to avoid paying an additional markup. We do try to help.) The Dynamic Scale Ring is included with your purchase and attaches easily to your existing shutter (instructions included)....

Read the whole thing:

https://www.cookeoptics.com/l/xva.html

[Jim Fitzgerald]

When I purchased my lens in the barrel I sent my Copal 3 to SK Grimes and had them mount it for me. No problem at all.

[Bernice Loui]

If purchased new from Cooke, why not inquire about having your Cooke XVa made to fit a Copal# 3 with a lens barrel sized to a Copal# 3? This way there is the option both ways of using in barrel or Copal# 3 shutter.


Bernice

[Ken Lee]

If I were getting a lens like that, I'd consider mounting it an older shutter (in good condition) with a (more) rounded iris.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

If I were getting a lens like that, I'd consider mounting it an older shutter (in good condition) with a (more) rounded iris.

I used an older Copal 3 as Ken suggests. A very good idea.

[Pere Casals]

with a (more) rounded iris.

Good point. I guess that a XVa deserves a perfect circle.

If shooting style is all in focus then this is not important, but if wanting to exploit the creamy bokeh the XVa has then a nice circle has to be there !

[Sal Santamaura]

Nikon's custom versions of Copal shutters have scales incorporated directly into the outer housings, unlike other like-vintage Copal shutters, which accept four screws to fasten a pair of separate scales. You will have no way to mount the Cooke scales on your 450M shutter.

I don't know whether Copal left the threaded female scale fastener receptacles under Nikon's custom outer housings. If it did, you'd need to remove and drill four holes through the outer housing to reveal those receptacles. And that's the least-bad outcome. All things considered, I suggest abandoning the idea of using a Nikon-version Copal 3 and obtaining one from another maker's lens.

[karl french]

The lens comes with a new band for the Copal 3 that replaces the printed Nikon band.

I bought in barrel and the found a clean used Copal 3.


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[karl french]

Actually, it’s the dynamic aperture scale that replaces the Nikon printed band.


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[Ken Lee]

http://www.kennethleegallery.com/images/forum/CompurShutter.jpg

Compound Shutter: 20 blades ? That looks pretty round !

If you're going to the trouble and expense of shooting large sheets of film with a rare and sublime lens, what's a few more hundred dollars ? A few boxes of film may cost more.

[karl french]

The lens cells are already threaded for a modern Copal 3. It works very well.


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[diversey]

Called and emailed. Not helpful and could not get any information :(


H

Why not call and ask them? They are in Mountain Lakes, NJ.

[diversey]

Read many times. Not sure if any modifications needed for using a newer Copal 3 shutter. Thanks!


From the Cooke website:

The lens can be supplied with or without a Copal #3 shutter. Your choice:

Use an existing recent vintage Copal #3 shutter in your lens collection or purchase a new Copal #3 shutter locally (to avoid paying an additional markup. We do try to help.) The Dynamic Scale Ring is included with your purchase and attaches easily to your existing shutter (instructions included)....

Read the whole thing:

https://www.cookeoptics.com/l/xva.html

[diversey]

Why did you send your lens to SK Grimes for mounting your lens to your Copal -3 shutter? Need adjustment, a shim or a spacer? Thanks!


When I purchased my lens in the barrel I sent my Copal 3 to SK Grimes and had them mount it for me. No problem at all.

[diversey]

It is supposed that the lens was designed to use newer Copal 3 shutter.


If purchased new from Cooke, why not inquire about having your Cooke XVa made to fit a Copal# 3 with a lens barrel sized to a Copal# 3? This way there is the option both ways of using in barrel or Copal# 3 shutter.


Bernice

[diversey]

Clever!


If I were getting a lens like that, I'd consider mounting it an older shutter (in good condition) with a (more) rounded iris.

[diversey]

Can I directly screw the lens cells in Copal 3 and use it??? Thanks!


The lens cells are already threaded for a modern Copal 3. It works very well.


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[karl french]

Yes, as I said, the Cooke XVa is designed to work with a modern (not the old colorful) Copal 3 shutter. It comes with a rotating aperture scale that replaces th exterior band on the Copal 3.


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[karl french]

I ordered mine from Badger Graphic.


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[diversey]

This was I thought. Yesterday when I called Badger Graphic and wanted to place the order of the lens without shutter. The salesman told me some modifications are needed such as a shim between the lens and shutter for properly using the lens. However Cooke website does not mention any modifications needed besides the aperture scales. I was puzzled and this was the reason I posted a question here. Thanks!



Yes, as I said, the Cooke XVa is designed to work with a modern (not the old colorful) Copal 3 shutter. It comes with a rotating aperture scale that replaces th exterior band on the Copal 3.


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[karl french]

The fancy gold trim ring screws into the front of the shutter. That offers some more threads for a 62mm filter when you are using a single group behind the shutter with the little anti flare insert in the mouth of the shutter.

The rear retaining ring situation is slightly different than standard. But nothing extraordinary.

The only “modification” to the shutter is removing the band around the shutter housing and replacing it with the dynamic aperture ring.

If you plan to share a shutter you’ll have to pick one aperture system or the other.

It’s really an amazing lens.


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[karl french]

Oh, and barrel the lens ships with doesn’t have an aperture or mounting threads. So it would be a challenge to use it as a barrel lens. It mainly there to protect the rear elements during shipping.

You’ll definitely want to pick up one of the SK Grimes rear caps. Necessary protection when using only one lens group.


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[Sal Santamaura]

...the Cooke XVa is designed to work with a modern (not the old colorful) Copal 3 shutter. It comes with a rotating aperture scale that replaces th exterior band on the Copal 3...

Thanks for that clarification. Images of a shutter-mounted XVa I've been able to find on line did not make it obvious. With your first-hand information, it's clear that either a Nikon or other modern Copal 3 can receive an XVa + aperture scale using only the appropriate jeweler's screwdriver. The process should be readily reversible if desired in the future.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I second getting the caps made by SK Grimes for protecting the single components. I love my lens and just used it on a trip to Bodie with the 8x10. The same lens is great on my 14x17 with the 19 or 25 inch component. Nice and sharp so one lens can do a lot for me. I need to see if it will cover the 8x20 now.

[diversey]

Karl: Thanks! What you said made sense to me now. David



The fancy gold trim ring screws into the front of the shutter. That offers some more threads for a 62mm filter when you are using a single group behind the shutter with the little anti flare insert in the mouth of the shutter.

The rear retaining ring situation is slightly different than standard. But nothing extraordinary.

The only “modification” to the shutter is removing the band around the shutter housing and replacing it with the dynamic aperture ring.

If you plan to share a shutter you’ll have to pick one aperture system or the other.

It’s really an amazing lens.


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[Jim Galli]

Ken, the Compound #3 is 56mm as was the first series Copal's. They were interchangeable on some lenses, particularly Schneider. Ultimately the 56mm became the Copal 3S. Standard modern black Copal 3 is 58mm. I think a Compur electronic with one of these would be slick.

However, that said, y'all really all need two of these so that you can have the ultimate casket set. 268mm 312mm 364mm 483mm & 660mm

[Ari]

I bought mine (in a new Copal 3) from Clive Russ, one of the distributors of Cooke lenses; he's also a guy who has a deep knowledge and understanding of certain lenses and their particular characteristics. Picture Jim Galli with a British accent.
Anyway, I had the chance to use the Cooke before purchase, and one of the first questions I asked was about the relatively low number of shutter blades.
He told me that the lens performs so particularly with OOF areas that a shutter with more blades wouldn't have made a huge difference.
After using the lens a few times, I very much appreciated his remark, which turned out to be quite true.
The way it masters contrast is something I've never seen a lens do before, so the new Copal 3 shutter should not be a factor in any decision to buy this lens.
It's really a unique and exceptional optic.

[diversey]

Thanks for your inputs!


I bought mine (in a new Copal 3) from Clive Russ, one of the distributors of Cooke lenses; he's also a guy who has a deep knowledge and understanding of certain lenses and their particular characteristics. Picture Jim Galli with a British accent.
Anyway, I had the chance to use the Cooke before purchase, and one of the first questions I asked was about the relatively low number of shutter blades.
He told me that the lens performs so particularly with OOF areas that a shutter with more blades wouldn't have made a huge difference.
After using the lens a few times, I very much appreciated his remark, which turned out to be quite true.
The way it masters contrast is something I've never seen a lens do before, so the new Copal 3 shutter should not be a factor in any decision to buy this lens.
It's really a unique and exceptional optic.

[diversey]

Hi Jim: Did you use this type of Copal 3 shutter for your XVa lens? Thanks!
194188



I used an older Copal 3 as Ken suggests. A very good idea.

[diversey]

Arrived! It looks wonderful. Now need figure out how to put it on Copal 3 shutter. Tricks and tips are welcomed. It comes with a golden ring!
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[Jim Galli]

Arrived! It looks wonderful. Now need figure out how to put it on Copal 3 shutter. Tricks and tips are welcomed. It comes with a golden ring!

It should be solid gold for the price ;~')) Look for a 300mm Symmar on Ebay and wait for a bargain. Not much demand for them any more. Then simply unscrew the front and rear Symmar elements and install the Cooke elements exactly the same. If Cooke didn't supply an aperture scale for Copal 3 with the lens, the Symmar one will be close enough to use. You could open a fifth of a stop to compensate, but with black and white it's a negligible difference.

But don't wait. Mount it in the barrel, get some slow - ish film. Stop down to 1/2 second, get a hat, or a "galli shutter" and go make pictures. Shutter's are over-rated comfort devices.

[diversey]

Jim: Thanks for your input! Will look for it. Are all Copal 3 shutters the same? David


It should be solid gold for the price ;~')) Look for a 300mm Symmar on Ebay and wait for a bargain. Not much demand for them any more. Then simply unscrew the front and rear Symmar elements and install the Cooke elements exactly the same. If Cooke didn't supply an aperture scale for Copal 3 with the lens, the Symmar one will be close enough to use. You could open a fifth of a stop to compensate, but with black and white it's a negligible difference.

But don't wait. Mount it in the barrel, get some slow - ish film. Stop down to 1/2 second, get a hat, or a "galli shutter" and go make pictures. Shutter's are over-rated comfort devices.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Hi Jim: Did you use this type of Copal 3 shutter for your XVa lens? Thanks!
194188

Looks like it. my shutter came from a Caltar II 360mm.

[Jim Galli]

Jim: Thanks for your input! Will look for it. Are all Copal 3 shutters the same? David

No, you should look far a later, all black copal 3. The earlier ones with chrome rings can have differences. I just did a search (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.X%22Copal+3%22.TRS1&_nkw=%22Copal+3%22&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_osacat=0&_odkw=Copal+3) and oddly, the cheapest black ones are with Rodenstock Imagon which might be fun to play with in it's own right. A twofer. But those have no aperture scale at all which means you'd have to pay someone like Steve Grimes for a proper scale with all three possibilities that the Cooke provides. I wonder if someone already has those made.

[diversey]

Got a black Copal-3 shutter from a Nikkor W 240mm F5.6 lens today. Put Cooke XVa lens and dynamic ring on the shutter, very easy. Need use lens board locator ring and lens board lock ring came with the lens from Cooke. Images from all 3 focal lengths looked good on GG. Will take some shots before Hurricane Dorian arrives. How do I use this lens? Wide open?

194884

[Jim Galli]

Got a black Copal-3 shutter from a Nikkor W 240mm F5.6 lens today. Put Cooke XVa lens and dynamic ring on the shutter, very easy. Need use lens board locator ring and lens board lock ring came with the lens from Cooke. Images from all 3 focal lengths looked good on GG. Will take some shots before Hurricane Dorian arrives. How do I use this lens? Wide open?

194884

What are you using for an aperture scale?

[diversey]

Lens comes with a dynamic ring (aperture ring) with 3 aperture scales, which is placed between rear part of shutter and iris actuating plate. You rotate the dynamic ring to select the aperture scale you use according to which lens element you use. You cannot put the lens elements directly on Capal-3 shutter. The rear chamber for rear lens element is too shallow. You must use the lens board locator and lens board lock ring from Cooke which come with the lens you purchase.


What are you using for an aperture scale?

[Jim Galli]

Cool. All you need to do then is stop down appropriately for the scene you're photographing and 'let er rip, taterchip' The 26" will be sort of hard to use unless you've got a good foothold on the edge of the grand canyon. But the 19 is very useful as is the 12+

[Sal Santamaura]

...The 26" will be sort of hard to use unless you've got a good foothold on the edge of the grand canyon...As someone who was there a couple of weeks ago, I'd add "and it's not visibility-restricted due to smog." :(

[Drew Wiley]

Leaning out and making adjustments on lenses on long bellows overhanging a sheer precipice is simply our way of competing with all those youngsters who back up over the edge taking selfies. When you hit the bottom, it's all the same.