questions about caltar ii-n lenses

[Ethan]

Hey everyone,

I recently came across a Caltar II-N 360mm f/6.8 lens, which looks like it might be a good deal. From what I've heard Caltars are re branded lenses, and their quality depends on the original maker. I've seen other Caltar II-N lenses marked as originally being Rodenstock Sironar-N lenses, does anyone know if that is true for all Caltar II-N lenses? this one certainly looks like the Sironar-N 360mm f6.8. The one weird thing is that it is being sold as a 4x5 lens, and I'm pretty sure it should cover 8x10, right?

[Oren Grad]

For normal plasmats, Caltar II-N is Sironar-N or Apo-Sironar-N, depending on the production date. (Wide-angle Caltar II-N's are Grandagon-N's.)

I've never seen a Caltar II-N in the 360mm focal length with late-production serial number and labeling style, though, so assume unless proven otherwise that it's a Sironar-N. I have one. It's very big and heavy and would be way overkill for a 4x5 field camera. But if you want a lens on the long side of normal for 8x10 and don't mind lugging the weight it's an excellent choice, will cover with ample room for movements.

[Luis-F-S]

For 4x5 a 14" Artar would make a whole lot more sense. Doesn't quite cover 8x10 at infinity, but would a closer distances. A 16.5" Artar would cover 8x10 though. L

[Bob Salomon]

For normal plasmats, Caltar II-N is Sironar-N or Apo-Sironar-N, depending on the production date. (Wide-angle Caltar II-N's are Grandagon-N's.)

I've never seen a Caltar II-N in the 360mm focal length with late-production serial number and labeling style, though, so assume unless proven otherwise that it's a Sironar-N. I have one. It's very big and heavy and would be way overkill for a 4x5 field camera. But if you want a lens on the long side of normal for 8x10 and don't mind lugging the weight it's an excellent choice, will cover with ample room for movements.

If it is the Apo Sironar N version it will have the colored ring around the barrel. Otherwise it is the Sironar N, MC if it was the later version.

[Oren Grad]

Bob, Caltar II-N plasmats with serial numbers from the Apo-Sironar-N era have the newer typeface but not the silver ring. At least that's true of the ones I own (150 mm and 300 mm), and I can't recall ever seeing a Caltar II-N plasmat with the ring elsewhere either. I'm happy to be corrected if someone can show an example that proves otherwise.

EDIT: A quick survey of what's currently up on eBay shows late 90/6.8 Caltar II-N (Grandagon-N) with the green ring as well as without. There's a late 150 and a late 210, neither of which has the silver ring.

EDIT 2: Adding completed listings to the survey turned up another late 90/6.8 Caltar II-N with green ring, and a late 240 Caltar II-N without silver ring.

Lens Trivia R Us!

[Ethan]

thanks! I'm not thinking of using it on 4x5, this would be for an 8x10 kit I'm putting together. I just found it odd that it was being sold for 4x5 when it covers so much more, so wanted to make sure there wasn't anything about this lens I was missing. What is the difference between the Sironar-N lenses and Apo Sironar-N lenses?

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, Caltar II-N plasmats with serial numbers from the Apo-Sironar-N era have the newer typeface but not the silver ring. At least that's true of the ones I own (150 mm and 300 mm), and I can't recall ever seeing a Caltar II-N plasmat with the ring elsewhere either. I'm happy to be corrected if someone can show an example that proves otherwise.

EDIT: There are late Caltar II-N Grandagon-N's with the green ring, though.

It is very possible that Rodenstock stopped supplying Calumet USA with the Apo Sironar N series with slower moving lenses due to Calumet not meeting their purchasing commitments as a private label supplier and lack of payments. Especially with slower selling lenses like the 360mm.

[Oren Grad]

We're still left with the mystery of why some of the late-production Caltar-labeled Grandagon-N's have green rings while others don't. But this is entirely a bit of academic trivia - it's completely irrelevant to making pictures, for which either type will be excellent.

[Oren Grad]

I just found it odd that it was being sold for 4x5

I agree!


What is the difference between the Sironar-N lenses and Apo Sironar-N lenses?

Bob worked for the company that at the time was the US distributor for Rodenstock, so he can give you the official word. The "Apo"-labeled ones appear to be the same optical designs, but as they are newer they may have benefited from improved coatings or other refinements in production processes. The earliest Sironar-N's were not multicoated, but those can easily be distinguished as the multicoated ones are labeled "MC". The 120 mm focal length was offered only in the Sironar-N series, never as an Apo-Sironar-N. In my own lens shopping I'll happily take a Sironar-N, Apo-Sironar-N, Caltar II-N or Sinaron S, choosing on the basis of price and condition.

[Tin Can]

Green ring Calters were undesirable, so I bought them.

I can't see any problem with them, "Said the blind man".

Truth and humor...

[Bob Salomon]

We're still left with the mystery of why some of the late-production Caltar-labeled Grandagon-N's have green rings while others don't. But this is entirely a bit of academic trivia - it's completely irrelevant to making pictures, for which either type will be excellent.

It got a bit complicated.
Calumet and Cambo had common ownership. The owner also owned Calumet Europe, Fidelity/Lisco/Riteway as well as some other companies.
As a retailer Calumet could not buy their lenses directly through the factory but as a camera manufacturer they could. Accordingly Calumet bought private label lenses under the Caltar label as well as Rodenstock branded lenses. The contract stipulated that they could not offer the Rodenstock branded lenses unless they were bundled with Cambo cameras and the selling price of the lenses had to match the selling prices of the country’s authorized distributor.
Calumet continuously violated this agreement by selling the Rodenstock branded lenses without a bundled camera and at prices other dealers could not match.
The factory started to pressure Calumet over these violations and eventually stopped selling Rodenstock branded lenses to them.
This all came to a head as Calumet was running into financial problems in the states and they became unable to meet their contractual obligations for private label. So supplies of some more current lens versions became scarcer.

[Vaughn]

I paired and bought new a Calumet-branded Gowland PocketView and a Caltar IIN 150/5.6 in the early 80s. The lens was 10 or 20 bucks more than the camera...about $450 total. Both still serve me well, tho I normally use larger formats.

[nbagno]

Interesting that this topic popped up. I was looking for a 90mm Caltar and just happened to find one used at Adorama. It’s a Caltar II-N 90 4.5 MC . I’ll post when I can see the lens band color. Condition was makked as “E” and the price was $229. From what I found, that seemed like a great price. Deal or do they know something I don’t?


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[CatSplat]

Bob, Caltar II-N plasmats with serial numbers from the Apo-Sironar-N era have the newer typeface but not the silver ring. At least that's true of the ones I own (150 mm and 300 mm), and I can't recall ever seeing a Caltar II-N plasmat with the ring elsewhere either. I'm happy to be corrected if someone can show an example that proves otherwise.

EDIT: A quick survey of what's currently up on eBay shows late 90/6.8 Caltar II-N (Grandagon-N) with the green ring as well as without. There's a late 150 and a late 210, neither of which has the silver ring.

EDIT 2: Adding completed listings to the survey turned up another late 90/6.8 Caltar II-N with green ring, and a late 240 Caltar II-N without silver ring.

Lens Trivia R Us!

There certainly seems to be some overlaps in serials for ringed vs non-ringed Caltars and Rodenstocks. I also took a gander at eBay and found a 90/4.5 Grandagon-N serial 11695xxx (~2001) with no green ring.. and yet the same lens with serial 11567xxx (~1999) has the green stripe! There must have been some production batches that overlapped.

At any rate, the switch looks to have taken place gradually in the mid-late 90s. My Caltar 90/6.8 has no green ring and a serial of 11255xxx (1994 production) and the earliest green-ring version I could find was serial 11383xxx (1996 production). Didn't find any overlap for that particular model in my brief search but I'm sure it probably happened to some extent.




Interesting that this topic popped up. I was looking for a 90mm Caltar and just happened to find one used at Adorama. It’s a Caltar II-N 90 4.5 MC . I’ll post when I can see the lens band color. Condition was makked as “E” and the price was $229. From what I found, that seemed like a great price. Deal or do they know something I don’t?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like a good deal to me, assuming the condition assessment is accurate! Don't put any stock in the band colour (or lack thereof), the colour was just to make them stand out and easy to spot a particular lens in your bag - they didn't change the optics when the bands were introduced.