Need Light Meter Recommendations | My SinarSix isn't working ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[manfrominternet]

I think the SinarSix/Gossen Light Meter (see photo) that I purchased either isn't working properly, or I truly have absolutely no idea how to use it. Because of this, I find myself relying on a light meter app on my iPhone, which isn't ideal, but it has worked relatively well. Anyway, when I compare the suggested shutter speed reading from the SinarSix to the reading from my iPhone app, it's wayyy off. It seems like the SinarSix only gives me approximately accurate numbers when in shade or when the sun is going down. Maybe I have the wrong reading ring? The only ring I have for it is an "S" ring. Apparently there is another "N" ring, "X" ring, and "P" ring, but I don't know if those are for different, more deluxe, SinarSix models.

Anyway, that said, I think I need a new light meter asap, preferably used and from eBay.

Do you guys have any recommendations for light meters or spot meters, or should I go on using my iPhone app/not give up on my SinarSix?

193181

[Pieter]

Have you tried having it checked by Quality Light Metric in Hollywood? Call them to drop it off (they don't have a storefront). Very highly recommended.

[Dan Fromm]

If you can live with an averaging meter, look for a Horseman 4x5 meter. If you decide to shop for one, buy only with the right of return. I've bought more than one of their 6x9ers, finally got a good one. Many are no good and since no parts are available, only a good one will do.

See my article on Horseman meters. There's a link to it in the list. If you don't know what the list is, there's a link to it in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion.

[Greg]

I wouldn't give up on your SinarSix/Gossen Light Meter. My present one worked great for years, then started to behave erratically. Batteries checked out fine so thought the meter was on its way out, after all had to be 30 years old plus. Turned out to be that on the bottom of the screw-in battery cover/cap the thin metal piece was not bent up to make contact with the face of the battery but was flat against the bottom of the cap.
I would suggest getting a hold of an IB for the SinarSix if you don't already have one. Before acquiring the IB, had a hard time using the meter. After acquiring a IB for it, using the meter became a breeze to use.
Good Luck

[Bob Salomon]

Why not see if Samy’s have those other rings?

[Daniel Unkefer]

You will be lost without the Instruction Book. Amazing what you can do with this thing. Easy once you understand it. Foolproof too.

TTL through the Sinar camera is about as good as it gets. Something may need tweaked, don't give up.

[manfrominternet]

Have you tried having it checked by Quality Light Metric in Hollywood? Call them to drop it off (they don't have a storefront). Very highly recommended.

Whoa! Thanks for the suggestion!!! �� I had no idea that LA had a dedicated light meter repair shop.

I'll contact them tomorrow, for sure!

[manfrominternet]

If you can live with an averaging meter, look for a Horseman 4x5 meter. If you decide to shop for one, buy only with the right of return. I've bought more than one of their 6x9ers, finally got a good one. Many are no good and since no parts are available, only a good one will do.

See my article on Horseman meters. There's a link to it in the list. If you don't know what the list is, there's a link to it in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion.

Wow, those Horseman meters look great! I just checked them out on eBay. Is there a good reason to get an averaging meter like this over, say, a spot meter? (I'm still learning about meters.)

[manfrominternet]

I wouldn't give up on your SinarSix/Gossen Light Meter. My present one worked great for years, then started to behave erratically. Batteries checked out fine so thought the meter was on its way out, after all had to be 30 years old plus. Turned out to be that on the bottom of the screw-in battery cover/cap the thin metal piece was not bent up to make contact with the face of the battery but was flat against the bottom of the cap.
I would suggest getting a hold of an IB for the SinarSix if you don't already have one. Before acquiring the IB, had a hard time using the meter. After acquiring a IB for it, using the meter became a breeze to use.
Good Luck

Yeah, I don't really want to give up on it, unless I absolutely have to.

I found an instruction book at good old cameramanuals.org (http://www.cameramanuals.org/flashes_meters/gossen_sinar_six.pdf), but the presumably English translation is extremely difficult to make out, not to mention that my SinarSix is, I think a different model.

Do you have those other "P", "N", and "X" scale dials, and do you use them? I only have the "S" dial, which is apparently the dial for reciprocity failure.

[Pieter]

There are about 20 pages about the SinarSix in "The SINAR System Handbook" from 1977 that I have. I'll try to scan them for you.

[Pieter]

Not the nicest scan, but here it is.

[manfrominternet]

There are about 20 pages about the SinarSix in "The SINAR System Handbook" from 1977 that I have. I'll try to scan them for you.

Thank you so, so much! Really appreciate this! 🙏

[nbagno]

Don’t you also need the correct battery like the wein cell 1.35 volt?


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[Bob Salomon]

Don’t you also need the correct battery like the wein cell 1.35 volt?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Wein is not the correct battery, it is a zinc air replacement cell for the real battery which was a mercury cell. Air zinc have a very short life compared to mercury which would last a year.
But mercury cells are banned now. So you might do a search to see if anyone has come up with a PX13/PX625 replacement that is not zinc air or if Gossen has a fix to use other cells.

From Gossen:

https://gossen-photo.de/en/ersatz-fuer-quecksilberoxid-batterie-v625px/

[Dan Fromm]

Bob, Gossen's fix for using SR44 cells -- GO 4145 -- was discontinued some time ago. Also, it held 2 SR44s, would be no help for a meter that needs just one.

The viable replacements for mercury cells are Zinc-Air cells and the MR-9 adapter (or a clone that also uses a Schottky diode).

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, Gossen's fix for using SR44 cells -- GO 4145 -- was discontinued some time ago. Also, it held 2 SR44s, would be no help for a meter that needs just one.

The viable replacements for mercury cells are Zinc-Air cells and the MR-9 adapter (or a clone that also uses a Schottky diode).

https://shop.criscam.com/collections/mercury-battery-adapters/products/mr-9-mercury-battery-adapter

[Pieter]

The Wein is not the correct battery, it is a zinc air replacement cell for the real battery which was a mercury cell. Air zinc have a very short life compared to mercury which would last a year.
But mercury cells are banned now. So you might do a search to see if anyone has come up with a PX13/PX625 replacement that is not zinc air or if Gossen has a fix to use other cells.

From Gossen:

https://gossen-photo.de/en/ersatz-fuer-quecksilberoxid-batterie-v625px/

I used an adapter I bought from the Netherlands in my Leica M5. It fits better than the Criscam one (https://shop.criscam.com/collections/mercury-battery-adapters/products/mr-9-mercury-battery-adapter) and was less expensive. You'll need to contact Frans at battery.adapter@online.nl

Frans also sells a kit with detailed instructions to make the adapter yourself.

[nbagno]

The Wein is not the correct battery, it is a zinc air replacement cell for the real battery which was a mercury cell. Air zinc have a very short life compared to mercury which would last a year.
But mercury cells are banned now. So you might do a search to see if anyone has come up with a PX13/PX625 replacement that is not zinc air or if Gossen has a fix to use other cells.

From Gossen:

https://gossen-photo.de/en/ersatz-fuer-quecksilberoxid-batterie-v625px/

Not the correct battery or just a short lifespan?


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[Bob Salomon]

Not the correct battery or just a short lifespan?


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A short life span is the wrong battery unless you are going to always carry spare cells.
Check the criss option.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I have three Norma Sinarsix units, and I use the CRIS adapter, without any issues whatsoever. I even checked it with an old Mercury I had around, at low, medium, and high light levels. Every reading was identical with both batteries. I am therefore convinced it works without problems.

I also have the original Norma 5x7 and 8x10 Adapter units. Interestingly they are made of wood.

[manfrominternet]

So I called Quality Light Metric in Hollywood to ask if they can get me the spare dials and perhaps calibrate the SinarSix. It turns out that they have no idea what my light meter even is and, that said, they can't get the spare dials or even calibrate it.

I guess the next step is to either buy a used SinarSix with all the dials from eBay or just get a whole new kind of light meter/spot meter altogether.

What do you guys suggest I do? I do like the concept of how the SinarSix works, especially since it also apparently takes care of bellows extension.

I guess what I'm asking is should I just get a whole new SinarSix, or should I get a Minolta/Pentax/Sekonic spot meter?

I'm afraid of constantly using my iPhone app. It's good for what it is, but I think that, sooner or later, it's going to screw me up.

[B.S.Kumar]

If you have a metering back you could also get the Booster that uses the Minolta Flash Meter.

Kumar

[esearing]

Sekonic L-508 or newer models. Spot, flash, and incident meter in one unit. Has toggles for 1/2 or 1/3 stops, memory and averaging functions, EV output, etc...............

[Daniel Unkefer]

So I called Quality Light Metric in Hollywood to ask if they can get me the spare dials and perhaps calibrate the SinarSix. It turns out that they have no idea what my light meter even is and, that said, they can't get the spare dials or even calibrate it.

Try calling him back, and tell him it's the European version of the Gossen Luna-Pro. I believe it was called "THE LUNASIX" but that's from memory.

If he knows it's a basically just a Lunapro with an attached probe, he should at least be willing look at it. Gossen sold millions of Lunapro's.

Ten to one it's a battery contact problem. Don't give up!

-Dan

EDIT: I see in another posting he dosen't work on Lunasixes. I wonder why not?

[Daniel Unkefer]

Here's a Youtube on converting the Lunasix with the diode, and general disassembly as well as calibration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arfyLjUmRP8

Is there a local shop or repair guy around you?

[Oren Grad]

EDIT: I see in another posting he dosen't work on Lunasixes. I wonder why not?

Gossen won't do Lunasixes any more - they say no parts. But I wonder what proportion of meter service requests require parts, as opposed to just cleaning/adjusting/fixes that don't need parts.

[Tin Can]

Thanks for posting, as now I understand how a SinarSix works.

That book is still very expensive new, but I found a reasonable one slightly used and bought it.

My question is, to use a SinarSix does a Sinar camera have to have a metering back?






Not the nicest scan, but here it is.

[Daniel Unkefer]

My question is, to use a SinarSix does a Sinar camera have to have a metering back?

If you are using your 5x7 Norma..... You need the Norma era Sinarsix, the 4x5 Norma Meter Cassette, and the 5x7 Norma Sinarsix Adapter. BTW this will then fit into ANY 4x5 or 5x7 camera. The metering cassette backs came on the scene with more modern F/P Sinars..........


My advice to you, is to keep your Norma ALL NORMA. Works best that way.

[Tin Can]

Thanks, good advice!

I have been finding a few interesting Norma bits from a wide range of sources.

Show and Tell will be later than sooner.


If you are using your 5x7 Norma..... You need the Norma era Sinarsix, the 4x5 Norma Meter Cassette, and the 5x7 Norma Sinarsix Adapter. BTW this will then fit into ANY 4x5 or 5x7 camera. The metering cassette backs came on the scene with more modern F/P Sinars..........


My advice to you, is to keep your Norma ALL NORMA. Works best that way.

[Jerry Bodine]

EDIT: I see in another posting he dosen't work on Lunasixes. I wonder why not?

FWIW, Dan, he re-calibrated my Lunasix about three yrs ago, although it was in excellent condition and not likely to need parts. He told me, when I asked about the necessity of installing the Gossen Adapter Kit / Battery Holder ($44 at that time), that the adapter was not necessary and that I only needed to replace the mercury batteries with two PX625A alkaline batteries (which are stronger than the original mercury batteries). He adjusted for the higher 3v and re-calibrated. It now agrees exactly with my Pentax Digital Spotmeter.

[Jerry Bodine]

Have you tried having it checked by Quality Light Metric in Hollywood? Call them to drop it off (they don't have a storefront). Very highly recommended.

The storefront does exist:

Quality Light Metric Co.
7095 Hollywood Blvd # 550
Hollywood, Ca. 90028

This is the address where I shipped my Lunasix. It shows on Google Maps.

[Pieter]

The storefront does exist:

Quality Light Metric Co.
7095 Hollywood Blvd # 550
Hollywood, Ca. 90028

This is the address where I shipped my Lunasix. It shows on Google Maps.

That's where you send it. For drop off and pick up, he uses the Mail & More storefront downstairs.

[Sirius Glass]

I use the Sekonic L-308 for incident and reflective metering. It also does flash but I have never used that. I also use the Pentax Digital Spot Meter for the Zone System, I added a Zone Sticker to it.

I have George Milton at Quality Light Metric do my light meter calibrations.

[manfrominternet]

So I found a Sekonic L-778 spot meter for sale for $150.

Is this one that you guys would recommend? (I shoot color negative and transparency. I'm also planning to shoot a lot of night photography, if that helps.)

If not, would you guys recommend a Pentax or Minolta spot meter instead? Or even go for that crazy expensive Horseman 4x5 averaging meter?

It looks like I'll have to give up on the SinarSix, since I can't get those other scale dials. :(

[Bob Salomon]

So I found a Sekonic L-778 spot meter for sale for $150.

Is this one that you guys would recommend? (I shoot color negative and transparency. I'm also planning to shoot a lot of night photography, if that helps.)

If not, would you guys recommend a Pentax or Minolta spot meter instead? Or even go for that crazy expensive Horseman 4x5 averaging meter?

It looks like I'll have to give up on the SinarSix, since I can't get those other scale dials. :(

Have you asked Leica if they inherited any when they bought Sinar?

[Luis-F-S]

I have two Pentax digital spot meters bought new. All I've used for the last 25 years or so.

[Greg]

Or even go for that crazy expensive Horseman 4x5 averaging meter?(

Have had and used a Horseman 4x5 averaging meter since the late 1980s. It is 100% an averaging meter. For most outdoor scenes will work quite well. For very contrasty, winter (snow), and night scenes it simply does not work... it will give you a reading BUT you will have to interpolate that reading which could go up to 5 stops in either direction. Not an impossible undertaking, but you will find yourself running through a lot of film with majorly bracketing exposures. Ideal meter for me was in fact a S.E.I. but mine died years ago. Acquired a hand full of broken ones and goal is to assemble a working example. Pentax Digital spot my choice. Wether Zone VI modified or not, cause of a good debate which probably has been already made on this FORUM. Soligor Spot Sensor Meter a way less costly alternative and the older metal model bullet proof. Much prefer the older metal model to the plastic model that replaced it.

[manfrominternet]

Have you asked Leica if they inherited any when they bought Sinar?

I just received word back from them saying that they have no more spare parts in their stock anymore. :/

[manfrominternet]

Does anyone recommend the Sekonic L-758dr, or is that just overkill?

So far, as far as spot meters are concerned, I'm thinking of the Sekonic L-778, the Pentax Digital spot meter, and the Minolta F or M spot meter (which of these is better, the F or the M?).

I can't really afford the Sekonic L-758dr, but if it's a good investment, I may go for it.

Any suggestions?

[Paul Ron]

i prefer the analog spot meters. the sell cheap, just look for what type of battery they use. i have one tyat uses a regular 9 volt battery.

as for accuracy... consistancy is more important. regardless of which meter you get, it all comes down to how you use it. you can buy the most expensive, most accurate meter in the world... your pictures still depend on how you process your film, n print them.

[Sirius Glass]

i prefer the analog spot meters. the sell cheap, just look for what type of battery they use. i have one tyat uses a regular 9 volt battery.

as for accuracy... consistancy is more important. regardless of which meter you get, it all comes down to how you use it. you can buy the most expensive, most accurate meter in the world... your pictures still depend on how you process your film, n print them.

But still even the best light meter must be calibrated.

[LabRat]

The storefront does exist:

Quality Light Metric Co.
7095 Hollywood Blvd # 550
Hollywood, Ca. 90028

This is the address where I shipped my Lunasix. It shows on Google Maps.

Anyone really should have their meters checked by one of the few service centers left, because once they are no longer here, (and techs retire), you have to find another older meter that might need service too, but a fresh calibrated working meter should last a long time (if not damaged)... Probably will not be made again...

Take advantage of service people who will do a good job for much less than an average car repair, and use with confidence for years to come...

The same goes for your shutters, bellows + other stuff (there are a # of resources now, but maybe not so much later), and keep a win-win situation for the shops and yourself...

Your gear will sorta stay the same, get worse, but not better unless serviced as time goes on, and might even become more important to you later, and you will be glad you did in the past (now)...

Steve K

[PRJ]

Does anyone recommend the Sekonic L-758dr, or is that just overkill?

So far, as far as spot meters are concerned, I'm thinking of the Sekonic L-778, the Pentax Digital spot meter, and the Minolta F or M spot meter (which of these is better, the F or the M?).

I can't really afford the Sekonic L-758dr, but if it's a good investment, I may go for it.

Any suggestions?

Any of those would be good. I've never actually seen the 778, but it is supposed to be really good. The Sekonic meters that do both incident and spot are nice to have, the 508 and up. Gossen also makes some good meters but they are pricey. The Minolta spot meters are good as well. As far as I can remember the F is just an M with flash capability. The Pentax digital spot meter is the most popular now it seems.

You don't need a spot meter either. I never got along with spot meters, too much pfaffing around, but I've been doing it a long time so I kinda know. Spot meters are best if you want to be a zonie.

If $150 is too pricey for you right now, there are incident meters that are really good and don't cost that much. A Gossen SBC for example.

I think though that the best thing to do is bite the bullet and get a meter you can live with for a long time. it is worth it.

Hope that helps you.

[Sirius Glass]

The storefront does exist:

Quality Light Metric Co.
7095 Hollywood Blvd # 550
Hollywood, Ca. 90028

This is the address where I shipped my Lunasix. It shows on Google Maps.

Actually George no longer has that office. Instead you can ship to the FedEx store at that address or take to that FedEx store to drop off and later pick up.

[manfrominternet]

Well, I've made the jump. I went ahead and bought the Sekonic L-778 Dual Spot meter for $150 from an avuncular elderly photographer in SoCal's Inland Empire. The meter looks fairly new and hasn't been used much. I've read the instructions twice now and have a fairly good understanding of how this thing works.

193562

What I wanted to ask is how can I calibrate this for accuracy, without having to go to Quality Light Metric Co. in Hollywood? I've spoken with George over there and it'll apparently cost between $75 and $90 to calibrate this, if it actually needs calibration. Being a student, that's quite a bit of money for me. Is there anything else I can do, short of testing and using up film?

Also, does anyone have any tips on using this thing? If I meter several places and store them in the memory, can the meter calculate the average?

[studioshooter1972]

I would highly recommend a Asahi Pentax Digital Spotmeter used in mint to excellent condition which you can find on Ebay for about $400. It is an invaluable tool if you are into the Zone System and even if you are not. It has one degree of angle which is a must for metering more distant values. It should come with a lens cap, strap and soft case. For studio work with tungsten or flash one of the higher end Sekonic meters are useful. Happy hunting. Well hope that new meter works out for you.

[LabRat]

OK, here is something to get you going to help you get started... You can give the meter a basic film test exposing just a few sheets of film... There are more advanced techniques, but this will give good results with standard films (color & B/W) under most normal conditions...

The advantage of a spot meter is you can measure the range of brightness in a scene, and see if you can match your film's range into it... (Other types of meters average the exposure to a tone in the middle of the scale) but you have an advantage... You can easily measure the brightest spot in the scene and read the value, then you can measure the shadow areas to see if you can hold detail there... You don't have to use the calculator in the meter, but you can also, but follow this...

If you read and note the bright highlight you want to hold detail in (out here in the Cali sun), with normal films and processing, one stop or EV setting under that will be middle grey/middle exposure, and just like a grey card exposure... B/W, color neg, and slide/chrome films will generally expose normal bright highlights well... Now you can read the shadow areas...

With standard B/W films,the 2 f stops under the middle grey setting will record on the film well, and then there is one more f-stop below that, that will record on the film with some form but little detail...

This is the metered range the film can see...

For color neg, you have two f-stops under middle grey to fit your shadow range... For chrome films, you have one stop under middle grey for shadows...

If you sit or walk outside with the meter, read a lot of scenes (before you shoot some film) to get the hang of it... Read highlights, read the middle bright areas so they are about 1 stop or EV # under that, then scan the darker areas watching how low the reading gets and see if can fit into the ranges mentioned above... Then try a couple of sheets, develop, and look at the neg in the light, and you should see detail in the shadows, and just see some step/separation in the highlights... If too dense, there is overexposure you can cut down, but if clear in the shadows, not enough exposure... (Always take notes, and # films/holders...)

This is for normal ranges, but some scene details will exceed this sometimes (like sun bouncing off oceans, windows, metals, chrome, ice etc), and the shadows might be too dark, but you will know from reading when this happens... You might have to choose what is more important to record, so you might have to add or cut exposure at the expense of one or the other (but you will know when this might happen)...

There are many more advanced techniques to expand the range you can record, but this will give good results you can use now and in the future... This will also work in non sun situations, like indoors, studio lighting, even night shooting!!!

YMMV, and these are gereral settings, but are pretty close, and you can refine them to your shooting style or mood (hi-key/lo-key etc)...

Down the road, you should calibrate the meter, shutter, film, development, printing etc, but if everything is working ok, you should be getting good results!!! You can fix other stuff
if it comes up, but it should be fine...

Good luck, and have fun!!!

Steve K

[abruzzi]

The advantage of a spot meter is you can measure the range of brightness in a scene, and see if you can match your film's range into it...


I am far from a "zonie" (as someone else in the thread called them) but this is exactly how I use my Sekonic L-508. I'm sure the 778 works differently, but with the 508, I put it in EV mode, point at the darkest part of the shot, press the meter button then the memory button. Point at the lightest part of the shot, and again press the meter then memory button. Finally I point at some part of the subject or where I think is the mid point. And meter (but not memory.)

When I look at the LCD, it will show me my selected shutter speed, and along the aperture graph at the bottom I'll see three markers--one each fro high log and middle. If I adjust the shutter, the three marks will slide up or down the scale but remain the same distance to each other. But looking at the distance from high to low I can see the dynamic range. I adjust until the center mark is where I want for depth of field and set the camera for that aperture and the shown shutter speed, unless the center is way offset and I'm afraid the high is too high or the low is too low.

This has so far worked quite well. A few weeks ago I shot a few tests of Fuji Provia (my first time trying this with slide film.) The range showed 5 stops (which a bit of googling suggested is about the range for most slide film). I set the camera to exactly halfway between the high and low, and the results were great.

[spot v]

Maybe I have the wrong reading ring? The only ring I have for it is an "S" ring. Apparently there is another "N" ring, "X" ring, and "P" ring, but I don't know if those are for different, more deluxe, SinarSix models.

193181

it‘s been a while since this thread was opened, I know. but this question of yours hasn’t been answered in the previous replies, as far as I can tell after reading most (but not all) posts.
you said you have only the S dial …which stands for Schwarzschild / reciprocity failure. the scaling of this dial is made to take
the Schwarzschild effect into account, thus the readings will not correspond to what you‘d expect, as far as slow shutter speeds are concerned. my guess is yes, you have the wrong dial, and this is probably what caused the trouble.

[Greg]

On the good side, your S.E.I. Photometer might not have been working... today pretty much impossible to acquire a good working one or even parts for it... been there and tried.