Commercial Ektar 12" coverage?

[Ethan]

Hello,

I'm putting together my first 8x10 kit, and am looking for a lens. The Commercial Ektar 12" is one I've seen available, and has been recommended to me. However, I read somewhere (can't remember where now) that it only has 56 degrees of coverage, which would mean it won't cover 8x10 when focused at infinity. However, when I stopped by Catlabs recently, the guy there was sure it would work. I need it to cover at infinity, as I shoot landscapes, so if anyone knows which is correct, it would be appreciated.

[Rick A]

The Kodak Reference Handbook lists the 12" Commercial Ektar as an 8x10 lens.

[BrianShaw]

https://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/KodakEktarsDB1.htm

[Ethan]

https://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/KodakEktarsDB1.htm

Thanks for that source! If it is correct, the lens will work for me.

[Corran]

It's a Tessar lens. You can count on all Tessar lenses covering a bit more than their focal length. Therefore, a 12 inch Tessar will always cover 8x10, regardless of maker.

Also, you might be a bit confused on the degrees of coverage and what that translates to in image circle.

[paulbarden]

Hello,

I'm putting together my first 8x10 kit, and am looking for a lens. The Commercial Ektar 12" is one I've seen available, and has been recommended to me. However, I read somewhere (can't remember where now) that it only has 56 degrees of coverage, which would mean it won't cover 8x10 when focused at infinity. However, when I stopped by Catlabs recently, the guy there was sure it would work. I need it to cover at infinity, as I shoot landscapes, so if anyone knows which is correct, it would be appreciated.

It definitely covers 8x10 with quite a bit of room to spare. Its a fantastic lens, rendering out-of-focus areas beautifully. Its one of my favorite lenses.

[Bernice Loui]

12" f6.3 Commercial Ektar was designed for 8x10, 53 degrees at f6.3 and 64 degrees at f16. It is not just a Tessar, it is a very, very carefully designed and made Tessar with low dispersion Lanthium glass with excellent color correction. The color balance was originally intended for Kodachrome color transparency films. They have excellent definition and resolution with lower contrast and excellent tonal and contrast rendition on film, mostly opposite of the high contrast look of modern multi coated Plasmat and similar lenses. The other goodness of these Kodak Ektars is their out of focus rendition.

https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00346/00346.pdf

One of my all time fave LF lenses for all sheet film formats. Your specific lens may and can vary in actual performance, do the required lens testing to verify if the specific example is any good before accepting.


Bernice

[Nodda Duma]

I am currently using this exact lens on my 8x10. Here is an example result from 2 weekends ago (pardon the jpg compression)

192976

Another result on Provia 100

192978

[Ethan]

hmm, I'm confused now. If it has only 53 degrees of coverage wide open, if my math is correct, then it only has an 11.97" image circle at 6.3, which is different than the 380mm listed by that site, and 11.97" is less than the diagonal of 8x10 (12.8")... have any of you with this lens focused at infinity with it?

[Dan Fromm]

Ethan, modern, not ancient, f/4.5 Tessars cover ~ 110% of their focal length when stopped down. f/6.3 Tessars cover ~ 65 degrees stopped down. If you want to shoot wide open, no modern 12" lens of normal construction (in this case, not wide angle) will cover 8x10.

People have been using 12"/6.3 Commercial Ektars on 8x10 with good results ever since the lens was introduced. Stop being so afraid of making a mistake. If the price is right, get the lens and don't look back. If you can't master your fear, get a 12" plasmat type.

[paulbarden]

hmm, I'm confused now. If it has only 53 degrees of coverage wide open, if my math is correct, then it only has an 11.97" image circle at 6.3, which is different than the 380mm listed by that site, and 11.97" is less than the diagonal of 8x10 (12.8")... have any of you with this lens focused at infinity with it?

I can assure you that the 12" Ektar easily covers 8X10 wide open. I shoot wet plate with it and often use it wide open, or stopped down only to f8. I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams that you will find this lens in any way inadequate.

[Ethan]

I can assure you that the 12" Ektar easily covers 8X10 wide open. I shoot wet plate with it and often use it wide open, or stopped down only to f8. I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams that you will find this lens in any way inadequate.

alright, thank you! Do any of you know of a reliable database for specs of these types of lenses? Different sites I find seem to list different specs, so it would be nice to have a good source to look at without having to bother you guys.

[Dan Fromm]

For Ektars, see the link in post #3 above.

I see that you're a relatively new arrival here. You may not be aware of this site's resources, which include FAQs on this forum's parent largeformatphotography.info

There's also "the list." To access it, click on the link in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion.

If you want a single list of all the world's lenses with as much information as anyone could want, you're out of luck. However, sources in the list would be a good starting point for anyone wanting to compile such a list. As they say, if you want to read it, write it.

[Leszek Vogt]

Lenses in general are optimized for F16-22 and that fits the large image circle. Although I have this 12", I'm using it on 5x7 and; therefore, no comparison.....and can't comment.

Les

[paulbarden]

There's also this Kodak publication (https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00346/00346.pdf), describing a number of the Ektar (and other) lenses, with coverage information.

[Drew Wiley]

That's a 1951 publication. Commercial Ektars were in production well after that, so some things might have changed.

[Mark Sampson]

I believe that Kodak's LF lenses used the same prescriptions from the time of the first Eastman Ektars (c.1940) through the end of production, c.1967. I remember asking the old-timer optics guys at Kodak about that, when I was a newbie at Kodak and the optics manufacturing was still at Hawkeye. (I also remember talking with an optical engineer I knew there- I'd gone to grade school with him- and he told me that there was no way Kodak could make those lenses in the 1980s and still turn a profit.)
During the years I worked there I used a number of different Ektars... none were any different than those seen out in the world, and they were all more than good enough.
To the OP, a 12" Ektar is a fine lens. Get one in good shape and you won't be disappointed!

[Bernice Loui]

The 12" f6.3 Kodak Commercial Ektar was specifically designed for 8x10 film. This is based on published Kodak literature, my own experience (have several 12" Commercial Ektars in shutter and in barrel and the f4.5 version) and the experience of many others here that image circle coverage for 8x10 is not an issue at f6.3 and stopped down.

I'm curious as to which web pages were used that provided the mis-information of --12" Commercial Ektar-- does not cover or not enough coverage for 8x10?

Why and how has trust and acceptance of what has been found on the web projecting the 12" Commercial Ektar does not cover 8x10 appears to have become a belief (individual acceptance as fact and truth) when the official and REAL Kodak literature and experience of those who have used the 12" Commercial Ektar on 8x10 be less valid than what has been found on the web?
*** Really Important Question here***

As for optimum taking aperture about two f-stops down or f11_ish, this is NOT the same as a modern plasmat which is designed for f22 or f16 to f32. Know taking image quality is GOOD even at f6.3 long as the camera is accurate-stable-precise-stable and the film is flat which is IMO a serious problem with 8x10.


Bernice



alright, thank you! Do any of you know of a reliable database for specs of these types of lenses? Different sites I find seem to list different specs, so it would be nice to have a good source to look at without having to bother you guys.

[BrianShaw]

Amen.

[Bernice Loui]

Second question for OP would be, this 8x10 view camera the first view camera?


Bernice

[Chauncey Walden]

A beautiful lens built of finest materials at a time of highest quality control at Kodak. But, If the OP thinks that he will be taking landscape photos with any normal lens on an 8x10 that is focused at infinity he will have a little learning to do (unless he is standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon.) I would suggest he look at some good depth of field software to see what to expect. I have the 12 and a 14 for my 8x10 but my landscape shots are often taken with a late 240mm Xenar (which the numbers will say does not cover 8x10 but stopped down and focused at an appropriate distance does an excellent job.)

[Drew Wiley]

My older brother sold Commercial Ektar lenses along with view camera gear in the 60's, and explained their 3 "grades" of quality to me; but I was still too young to appreciate any of that, and simply wanted a 35mm camera; so he gave me an early Honeywell Pentax for my 17th birthday, and that's how it all began. Couldn't afford to buy one myself.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48192332821_f5d4764ac8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gqAiy2)300mm f6.3 Ektar 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2gqAiy2) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48192381817_c12ca348e1_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gqAy7M)300mm f6.3 Ektar 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2gqAy7M) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Today I made an offer on this one on Ebay, and it was accepted. I will forward-mount it on a Norma board, to use with my Norma shutters. I have a new interest in 5x7 and this will go on my 5x7 and 8x10 Normas. I also have had the 300mm F4.5 Schneider Xenar in barrel for many decades.

Glad to have this Ektar! :)

[Jim Galli]

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/01/1114withKodak12InCommEktarS.jpg

Here with plenty of imperfections is an 11X14 sheet I did today with the Deardorff V11 field camera and a sheet of ASA25 Efke film. The lens was centered nearly perfectly and focused with no movements at all. This is done with an ordinary (if there is such a thing) 12" Kodak Commercial Ektar lens. 1/10th second by Acme #4 shutter and tray developed in PyroCat HD. I had to scan the film in an Epson V700 scanner, so this is 4 scans sewed together quickly. There are imperfections for sure, but what we're after are the corners. It exceeded expectations, as they almost always do.

[Punker]

For what it's worth I use an 8.5 inch Commercial Ektar on 8x10. Even it covers edge to edge, granted, with little or no room for movements. And there is softness and distortion at the corners but that's a look I like anyway.

[Jim Galli]

For what it's worth I use an 8.5 inch Commercial Ektar on 8x10. Even it covers edge to edge, granted, with little or no room for movements. And there is softness and distortion at the corners but that's a look I like anyway.

Worth a lot. That's helpful to know.

[Pere Casals]

If you can't master your fear, get a 12" plasmat type.

Another choice is to get the 14" commercial, Yousuf Karsh used it extensively por 8x10" portraiture, his favourite lens, for good reasons I guess.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48293911427_675edca9b0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gzyVki)5x7 Norma 300mm Kodak 6.3 Commercial (https://flic.kr/p/2gzyVki) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

New lens in the fold, arrived today. 300mm F6.3 Kodak Commercial Ektar (in barrel mount). Useful with Sinar Norma Shutter, shown ready to go on 5x7 Norma. I had a board that works with this lens. Lens is close to mint and I love it.