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Jiri Vasina
3-Nov-2005, 11:10
Hello,

I'm very new to LF photography, just today I bought an Ica Ideal 325 camera (ground glass 10x15cm, has markings for 9x12cm, 6.5x9cm) with a lens Carl-Zeiss Jena Tessar 16.5cm/1:4.5 with Compur shutter seemingly working accurately 1/150s-1s + B + T [I'll test the exact timings tomorrow]. Can you recommend a film holder that I could possibly use (I've seen BW sheetfilm in the sizes of 6.5x9cm and 9x12cm in shops here)? Is there anyone with a hint of knowledge about these cameras?

[I've so far been working with medium format - Pentax 6x7 and contemplated moving larger. But the cost even of a used camera were prohibitive. That's the reason I ended up with a camera over 80years old, upon which I stumbled in a second-hand shop by chance. The camera seems to be in wonderful condition, lens clean, shutter working, bellows tight, groundglass unbroken. It even has a finder!]

I also both a Plaubel Rollex in the 6x9cm format for a 120 roll film. For this one I either plan to buy an old holder and mount it in this, or do some woodworking and create a holder with the help of my friend.

Do you know if I can also mount a different lens? The lens is removable, but is not placed in any of the modern lens-boards. Just bare lens with shutter with a simple lock mechanism. The outer diameter of the rear part is around 53mm.

I'd be glad for any recommendations, ideas, tips or help on this camera.

Thanks a real lot

Jiri

Ole Tjugen
3-Nov-2005, 14:24
The camera uses 10x15cm plates, known as "Postkartenformat". You need to find the correct type of plate holders for your camera, then get hold of film inserts so that you can use "modern" film. Then comes the problem of finding film in 10x15cm size...

It is also possible to make an adapter for 9x12cm film in the 10x15 holders, although the size difference is a little too small to make it easy. Bigger cameras are simpler - I have adapter combinations enough to use 6.5x9cm film in a 18x24cm camera!

Unfortunately, 9x12cm cameras are much easier to put to use than the 10x15cm ones.

Donald Qualls
3-Nov-2005, 14:38
I've got an Ica 225 Ideal with a bad bellows, and a fully working Zeiss-Ikon 250/7 Ideal, and a total of fifteen usable plate holders that fit both, so I'm at least familiar with the breed...

The Ica and later Zeiss-Ikon Ideal models used a proprietary plate holder that fit only this one model. Rather than a slide-in with a flanged edge, they're a pop-off holder that light seals with a lip that inserts into what seems to be the frame mask in the camera back, forming a geometric light trap. As such, they're much less prone to light leaks than the flat type that depend on velvets for their seal, but they're relatively hard to find, and at least the painted type are soldered or spot welded where the dark slide velvets are, so those can't be replaced if they're deteriorated. On the bright side, they're very easy to identify, they'll be marked as either Ica or Ziess-Ikon with a part number (I *think* they'll be something like 726/X, but I don't know what the X is -- 726/6 fits the 9x12 Ica and Zeiss-Ikon Ideals, and 726/3 fits the 6.5x9 size, I think; there's also a 726/7 that fits the 9x12 but is porcelained instead of painted). AFAIK, no other company made holders to fit the Ideal -- there weren't enough of the cameras to make it profitable to try to undercut the camera manufacturer.

Film sheaths, BTW, aren't terribly hard to arrange if you can get plate holders. The simplest method of holding film in a plate holder is to get a sheet of 1-1.5 mm glass cut to an exact fit, lay the film on top of it and let the holder's latching system hold the film against the glass. It would also be possible for a competent sheet metal worker to fold a sheath to match the originals, if you an find even a single original, though that's likely to be an expensive operation. You *might* also find adapters that fit in place of a 10x15 plate and will hold a smaller 9x12 plate or film sheath; 9x12 film sheaths and film are easier to come by, at least in the USA, than 10x15.

John_4185
3-Nov-2005, 14:43
I might just have a ground-glass back w/viewing shade for that camera. Nudge me if I should measure it or snap a digi of it.

Jiri Vasina
3-Nov-2005, 15:29
Thanks all for your quick answers.

I forgot to say I'm based in the middle of Europe, the Czech Republic. That could also pose some problems with availability of parts (holders) as most of these antique things seem to be on the other side of the ocean :-(. But I hope and think problems are to be solved.

jj, I do have the groundglass back with the viewing shade. An I hope I can use this as a model to do the woodwork and create a fit for the 120 roll film holder as a start and than later (hopefully) fit the 9x12cm sheets into something.

Jiri

Mike Kovacs
3-Nov-2005, 15:53
No, Czech is probably better for parts in these cameras. I had to buy all my 9x12 holders in Europe (Germany) and ship them at great expense to Canada.

Donald Qualls
5-Nov-2005, 14:28
I agree with Mike -- 10x15 cm was a European format originally, and was never at all well distributed in this country (USA). 9x12 was more common here, because the cameras were significantly more compact than 4x5 inch and the image was nearly as large, but even 9x12 is more common in Europe to this day. Add to that that most of the centimeter size plate cameras were made in Germany (though there surely were French and Italian models, and some UK makes came in both centimeter and "plate" sizes), and you have a situation where it's probably easier for you to get holders and parts than it would be for me.

I've been able to get my holders in the USA, but couldn't have begun to do so before the internet and eBay created what amounts to a continent-sized marketplace that fits on my computer screen. Check on German eBay, set up a good search (hopefully you read and write German well enough to do that), and you'll find what you need with some patience.