AC, Venting, ideas for a Darkroom Shed?

[m00dawg]

I'm starting to outgrow my bathroom darkroom a bit and started to put together cost estimate for a darkroom shed and was curious what other people's experiences are that have done something similar? I've read a few articles and postings, but all of them seem to be in areas where it doesn't get super hot.

It gets hot enough where I live where I would definitely need air conditioning which seems to be the biggest complication I'm running into, since I'll need an AC unit itself, probable radiant barriers and perhaps even insulation. I'll also probably need a fridge to keep the chemicals cool enough when I'm not actively in the darkroom. Likewise I thought about not leaving any of my enlarger lenses mounted to avoid any fungus.

192890

Above is my mock up using a 10x10 shed. I modelled it in FreeCAD. If anyone wants a copy just let me know and I'd be happy to provide it. It's just a block diagram mostly.

Enlargers (Omega D2 and I may have enough space to use my Besseler 67 as well) will be on the left will be my dry space. Back wall is the start of my wet space and will be for dev trays. The right side can be used then for paper or film washing being right next to the sink. Next to the sink would be the fridge followed by my breadrack that I'm currently using in my bathroom tub to store odds and ends.

I was thinking the shelves would be 3 feet up there about since I like to stand in my darkroom and that leaves space along the bottom for storage.

What is missing is where I may put the AC and a suitable vent by the wet area, along with where I may put the lights (will probably due red LED strip lights for a safelight and was thinking tube style fluorescent or LED lights for working lights). Oh and also water and power connections.

Water, I was thinking, might be easy as there is a hose connection close enough I can just run a hose from the house to a hookup on the shed (maybe with a filter). That's just for wash water. I mix all my chemicals with distilled. Electrical would be easy to solve were it not for the heat - could have powered the whole thing with a solar panel and a battery even, but the fridge and AC unit will need way more than that. As such, I'll likely need to run power, I'm hoping I can do so with underground conduit perhaps.

Pretty big project, all told, compared to my bathroom which I build using extremely modest costs (I use a shelf above the toilet for my enlarger :P). It works but there is no concept of wet vs dry areas and given it has no AC itself, it can get pretty muggy and warm during a darkroom session in the summer unless I decide to freeze the rest of the house out.

Thoughts, concerns?

[Tin Can]

Trenching electric to my shed is my issue, 60 feet across soft Vole infested soil.

I just paid $2500 for a plumber to destroy my front yard using a backhoe to replace my street to home water main 150 ft. It was leaking 200 gallons a day making the yard very wet. He installed 1" PEX 24" deep per local water main depth requirement. Water here is cheap. but the lawn was not drying out.

So for the backyard shed I found another legal way to trench locally. IF I can DIY. I recently bought this tool. http://www.wiltonthinlinetrenchingspades.com/index.html The big one does 16" and all I need here is 18" so it may work. Nice tool, well made by a tiny business.

Nobody is going to inspect anything here.

Watch the video.

[Vaughn]

The only comment I have is that one should design the air flow to bring fresh air past one's head, then over the chemicals trays, then out. Reverse that and one might as well not have any venting.

Good luck with your project!!

[m00dawg]

Haha clever thoughts Tin Can. Does make me think I should (covertly) look up what our HOA allows. Maybe they somehow allow running power across (doubt it). I wouldn't mind running an extension cord out there when I use it, not a big deal for the AC. An issue for the chemicals but I could store those in the house I suppose if it really came down to it.

Thanks Vaughn! Good point also. HOA doesn't allow window mount units (though I don't think says anything about a hanging AC mounted directly to a shed all nicely framed) so either it's going to be an (inefficient) floor/roller AC unit or, preferably, one of the models that keeps the condenser on the outside and has an inside bar or box you mount. In either case, I was thinking of having that be near the rack which would be across from the enlarger. The vent then would be somewhere next to the trays. I think that'll give me some nice flow through the shed without being so close to my paper that it starts blowing things around.

[Jim Noel]

First, Insulate! It is amazing how the temperature changes in an enclosed room the size you are suggesting.
Exhaust vent fan over the sink.
Small window A/C low in wall opposite the sink, this will keep it from occupying what soon will be wall and counter space.
Small portable electric heater for those very cool times.
Solar powered vet fan in the ceiling.
My darkroom is in the house, but my model rain shed is 8x12 feet and it gets hot here. This schemekees the shed relatively cool in hot weather,and cools off even more quickly.
An under counter refrigerator should fit under the counter.
In order to be comfortable while processing, stand with your arms at the side, elbows bent 90 degrees. Measure the distance from floor to bottom of arm. This is the correct height of the sink rim. My sink is built like an inside out boat using plywood wells coated with an epoxy designed for the outside of the boat hull. Built in 1980,still doesn't leak.
Probably more than you wanted, but good luck with the project.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Does make me think I should (covertly) look up what our HOA allows.

My deepest sympathies to our friends that have to live under Home Owners Associations. I will spare you all the horror stories. My take? Get the hell out of there!

[Ron Stowell]

My deepest sympathies to our friends that have to live under Home Owners Associations. I will spare you all the horror stories. My take? Get the hell out of there!

My thoughts exactly, sell the place and move to a home that you OWN. HOA is nothing but apain. First hand knowledge.

[m00dawg]

Re HOAs, sure but the complexity of moving is several orders of magnitude more complicated just to build a darkroom shed :P That and I can't just rip my kiddo out of his school to move far enough away to avoid an HOA just to build a darkroom. Our next house won't have an HOA but for the sake of this post, we're stuck with one for several years.

That said, I don't often agree with most of their stupid rules but they don't have any issues with my somewhat extravagant lights-to-music holiday lights display. They also DO allow sheds and I actually managed to find the restrictions documentation and they even allow window units as long as they can't be seen from the street, which is great since window units are both cheap and (reasonably) efficient. I'll just have to see what options there are to mount just a unit without ideally having to install an actual window that I'll then have to cover up.

I haven't found info about running wires though. I'm liking my extension cord idea more and more. I just have to coil it up when needing to mow the lawn. Suppose I could get fancy to see how long a fridge would stay cool without power by just putting my Arduino powered weather station inside of it. Probably long enough to mow the lawn heh.

[Luis-F-S]

The only comment I have is that one should design the air flow to bring fresh air past one's head, then over the chemicals trays, then out. Reverse that and one might as well not have any venting.

Yup, I'd put the A/C on the opposite wall to the wet area and put the exhaust over the wet area. That way the AC blows past you & the trays and onto the exhaust. Why are you going to put a filter on a potable waterline? If it's good enough to drink, it's good enough for the darkroom. All the filter will do is remove particulates which shouldn't be there in potable water anyway!

I paid more than $2500 for my plumber to run a 1" waterline 200' from the meter to the darkroom, and then paid double that for the plumber and backhoe to run a gravity line for the drain to tie into my house sewer. It isn't cheap if you want to do it right! L

[jp]

If you have soft soil, rent a trencher for the day.. It's sort of like a walk behind chainsaw for cutting a slot in the earth for your electrical conduit.

Definitely insulate the shed, especially the ceiling.

If you can't install a window unit AC, perhaps find someone with AC/hvac experience and tools to help you install a heat pump. The pioneer brand on amazon is around $1000 and works great if professionally installed. I installed one at work and hired a hvac guy for a couple hundred $ to finish the job (deal with vac pump and refrigerant and testing) Quieter and more efficient than a window unit and your darkroom can stay dry.

If you can use a window unit, just remove the the window and frame. Put some waterproof material where the AC sits since it will leak water, and frame it back in.

[Bruce Watson]

It gets hot enough where I live where I would definitely need air conditioning which seems to be the biggest complication I'm running into, since I'll need an AC unit itself, probable radiant barriers and perhaps even insulation.
...
Thoughts, concerns?

It it were me I'd be looking at a ductless mini-split (https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/heat-pump-systems/ductless-mini-split-heat-pumps) system for HVAC.

As to ventilation fans, always remember that fans like to pull, and they hate to push. Said another way, trying to blow air through a duct can be like trying to push a rope. Because air is compressible. Far better (or at least more efficient) to locate the fan itself on the outside wall of the structure and on the other end of the duct that runs to the light-tight louvers over the sink.

And you really should insulate the structure at least to your local building code requirements. Go higher if you can.

[m00dawg]

. Why are you going to put a filter on a potable waterline? If it's good enough to drink, it's good enough for the darkroom.

It is but I was worried about the hard water. We have a water softener but I believe our outside hose spigots do not use it. Yeah I was thinking a particulate trap more than anything else just due to dirt and stuff that might end up in the garden hose as I connect/disconnect it (for mowing and stuff). Trying to keep the water needs as simple as I can since I just need a simple sink basin and a hose. So I was thinking just a hose connection on the outside that runs into the shed with maybe just a Y splitter to hook up a hose for a print washer and one for a faucet for the sink.

Draining the water is a good point though. I don't have a solution for print wash runoff other than watering the grass, but the runoff from washing might not be so great given it's washing off mostly fixer. I use XTOL replenishment and water stop for film. Taking the spent paper developer inside the house wouldn't be a problem. I keep my used fixer for yearly pickup.

I could perhaps run the drain out, at least initially to the outside where I can capture it in a basin of some sort that I can then drain into the city sewer perhaps.

Trouble with running a drain is the shed would be close to water and power, but I don't think particularly close to a drain I could easily tap into from the home. Hmm...

[m00dawg]

It it were me I'd be looking at a ductless mini-split (https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/heat-pump-systems/ductless-mini-split-heat-pumps) system for HVAC.

As to ventilation fans, always remember that fans like to pull, and they hate to push. Said another way, trying to blow air through a duct can be like trying to push a rope. Because air is compressible. Far better (or at least more efficient) to locate the fan itself on the outside wall of the structure and on the other end of the duct that runs to the light-tight louvers over the sink.

And you really should insulate the structure at least to your local building code requirements. Go higher if you can.

Yup insulation is nearly a must given our hot summers. I've tried to account for the space lost due to putting up some OSB to cover up the walls, where I can do insulation. I'd like to do the awesome foam stuff (might help avoid light leaks too) on the walls and rafters but as I recall that stuff is costly. So might just do batting and can cover that up with OSB which also gives me a nice solid wall to be able to mount anything I need.

Yep was looking at the split systems. They're about 2x of a wall unit, but quieter and seem more efficient. All of them are above the BTUs I calculated for a 10x10x10 darkroom but looks like they offer more precise temperature control too? So that might be worth the premium.

You lost me a bit on the fan. Well not lost hehe I get what you mean, though not sure what I may actually need that is both light tight and controllable from inside.

[Leszek Vogt]

https://www.houzz.com/products/8x16-standard-storage-shed-kit-with-floor-framing-prvw-vr~141187534

This might me little bigger than you intend to have, but I chose it for the door. The frame can be trimmed or find a 10x10 with proper door. Yes, insulation will play a huge role. I'd run all the utilities via underground (preventing from freezing)....tho you didn't specified geo location. As to venting, primarily I'd have several quiet fans near the wet area (sink) forcing the air out via 6" duct. Also, one or couple of quiet fans (Panasonic)
in the ceiling will keep the air shifting within the darkroom.....making the place bit cooler even w/o AC. Those ceiling fans can be set up to enter a specific duct (proper screen installed for any sort of vermin). Additionally, I'd install cross ventilation fans in the attic space.....to be controlled by auto triggering device.....once it reaches 90F deg (as example) and that would also help the darkroom space to remain more comfortable.

Agree, that quiet heat/cool pump would be ideal, but you can shave the costs substantially by getting a dedicated AC unit (less than $200) installed and or small heater when necessary. Might have to wear headphones for AC :). Whichever you choose, make sure your elect accommodates the unit/s. Although it may be obvious to some, keep elect outlet/s away from the wet area....and where necessary, install GFCI receptacles.

Les

[m00dawg]

Geo location is Texas. So summers are hot. Been not so bad here so far, but it will get up to 40C/104F here in the summer.

To that end thinking about using the spray foam insulation. That'll also help cover up light leaks. I still may put up some OSB though (don't think a radiant barrier would help so much on the inside though). Not sure if the foam has any concerning properties mixing with fixer fumes though (hence thinking about covering it up).

Good call on GFCI. I'll need to think about that more. If I can cost effectively bury cabling and water that would be ideal. The house outdoor breaker box isn't too far from the shed (it's a straight shot anyway) but it may be full. Water may be more problematic though which is why I liked the idea of just running a hose out when I was going to use the darkroom. Not a huge deal there. I suppose a plumber could maybe tap off the pip for the outdoor faucet on the house and run some PVC underground (will have to work around some sprinkler systems...ah crap which is another thing I'll need to consider - may have to cap a few for where the thing will be).

By Panasonic fans I assume you meant something like these?

https://na.panasonic.com/us/home-and-building-solutions/ventilation-indoor-air-quality/ventilation-fans

If they're nice than my bathroom fan I currently use, that'd be great :P That damn thing is LOUD. I use a small Vornado fan on the floor to help pull in air too. If it's dark in the house I just leave the door open (but my curtains over the door down) to pull in air. That works pretty well.

[Ted R]

When I installed a window AC in my attic darkroom I discovered light leaks through the AC unit that had to be fixed. The open paper developing trays are located right next to the only window available for AC. That window is on the south wall where the AC is in full sun and it leaked light "like a sieve". If you can locate the AC on a north wall this will help but probably not eliminate light leaks. I took the front off the unit to gain access to the air-duct which in most modern AC seems to be a white "polystyrene" molding, which when sunlit glows nicely. Some black latex paint took care of things, in the same area the air impeller was painted black also. These steps were not sufficient to completely prevent leakage and to get a better result I chose to reduce the amount of light getting inside by installing a sheet metal sun-shield to the top cover of the unit on the outside. I'm 50 miles from NYC, summer sun is fierce and the roof un-insulated :-(

[Tin Can]

I installed this in my last Darkroom in 2012 and will be installing another shortly in a new 'last' Darkroom. I put the first in a wall, this time it goes in the HVAC room venting directly under a roof overhang,

6 feet of 6 inch pipe will pull from just above my sink.

https://na.panasonic.com/us/home-and-building-solutions/ventilation-indoor-air-quality/ventilation-fans/whisperlinetm-remote-0

Make up air will flow from a Doran vent (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43102-REG/Doran_DOL1212_L_1212_Light_Tight_Darkroom.html) placed low across the room to pull cooler air. Winter or summer.

Both from Amazon as they seem to have the lowest price. It has increased since 2012.

[Gary Beasley]

+1 for laying in a properly sized electric line. The AC and fridge will pull a bit of power and the usual extension cord will be nowhere near able to handle the load. Ive had a neighbor have a house fire because of an under-rated extension cord going to a freezer on the back porch. You can get cable rated for burying without conduit, ask your electrician the best way to hook up.

[Leszek Vogt]

Geo location is Texas. So summers are hot. Been not so bad here so far, but it will get up to 40C/104F here in the summer.

To that end thinking about using the spray foam insulation. That'll also help cover up light leaks. I still may put up some OSB though (don't think a radiant barrier would help so much on the inside though). Not sure if the foam has any concerning properties mixing with fixer fumes though (hence thinking about covering it up).

Good call on GFCI. I'll need to think about that more. If I can cost effectively bury cabling and water that would be ideal. The house outdoor breaker box isn't too far from the shed (it's a straight shot anyway) but it may be full. Water may be more problematic though which is why I liked the idea of just running a hose out when I was going to use the darkroom. Not a huge deal there. I suppose a plumber could maybe tap off the pip for the outdoor faucet on the house and run some PVC underground (will have to work around some sprinkler systems...ah crap which is another thing I'll need to consider - may have to cap a few for where the thing will be).

By Panasonic fans I assume you meant something like these?

https://na.panasonic.com/us/home-and-building-solutions/ventilation-indoor-air-quality/ventilation-fans

If they're nice than my bathroom fan I currently use, that'd be great :P That damn thing is LOUD. I use a small Vornado fan on the floor to help pull in air too. If it's dark in the house I just leave the door open (but my curtains over the door down) to pull in air. That works pretty well.

Good thing you don't live on the Panhandle. I do recall driving through there (on the way to Orlando) and there was enough snow/ice on the road for a trucker to lie down his rig on the side, blocking everything - 25mile traffic....good thing I was going in the opposite direction. So, yes cold can happen in Texas :>).

Can't say anything about foam insulation. But, if you do exterior diligently any conventional (fiberglass) insulation will cover any light that may try to squeeze through. Also, what sorts of walls are you intending to install on the interior, OSB ? I can smell the formaldehyde all the way here :>).

Any water coming directly from the hose will likely be too warm to use in the darkroom, no ? Urrr, unless it's 2AM.

Yes, the Panasonic "whisper" type are really good. I have one in the bathroom (less than 3' from my ear) and v. often I forget it's there at all. I also used Ultra Silent Broan throughout the house, and they are v. quiet as well - not sure of the availability of this.

192899

Les

[m00dawg]

Indeed proper wiring, completely with a break box, proper outlets, etc. would be nice. The goal is to have something proper, although there are 12 and even 10 gauge extension cords available for use. Main difference over in-wall, I believe, is stranded versus solid core (which is still certainly a thing). I'll be contacting the electrician we used last time for some stuff to get his thoughts and pricing on options to see what he may think.

Back to the fans, I did some poking around and sounds like these (https://na.panasonic.com/us/home-and-building-solutions/ventilation-indoor-air-quality/ventilation-fans/whispergreenr-1) are ones to consider. I see it has an outlet, presumably to connect to a pipe which should make it easy to build some sort of light trap for. In a shed though not sure how I might install so it doesn't look ugly (on the outside, I don't care much about the inside).

Wondering, I read up more on split AC. I guess I take for granted I have a fresh air intake thing for my home AC (pretty sure it's just an outside vent with a filter on it, nothing special). The split AC won't be bringing in any fresh air so I'm thinking, as some folks have mentioned, having a means to get fresh air, perhaps by means of louvers and/or some piping to trap light in from the outside. I can put a fresh air vent right by the enlarger and the exhaust by the trays.

[m00dawg]

Good thing you don't live on the Panhandle. I do recall driving through there (on the way to Orlando) and there was enough snow/ice on the road for a trucker to lie down his rig on the side, blocking everything - 25mile traffic....good thing I was going in the opposite direction. So, yes cold can happen in Texas :>).

Can't say anything about foam insulation. But, if you do exterior diligently any conventional (fiberglass) insulation will cover any light that may try to squeeze through. Also, what sorts of walls are you intending to install on the interior, OSB ? I can smell the formaldehyde all the way here :>).

Any water coming directly from the hose will likely be too warm to use in the darkroom, no ? Urrr, unless it's 2AM.

Yes, the Panasonic "whisper" type are really good. I have one in the bathroom (less than 3' from my ear) and v. often I forget it's there at all. I also used Ultra Silent Broan throughout the house, and they are v. quiet as well - not sure of the availability of this.

192899

Les

Yes it can (re: cold) but in the summer, it's hot and humid. Too hot for chemicals let alone me to work in a shed without AC for sure :) Even at night. But the fall through spring would be pretty nice once the sun goes down for a while.

Yeah I read the foam, particularly if not cured properly, can be nasty. I'd have someone professionally install that. Fiberglass/batt I feel like I'd have to cover up with something. I've always found that stuff to be dusty and am wary of breathing in anything coming from that stuff as well. I don't really need OSB except for that. I don't want sheetrock because that stuff just makes putting anything on the wall more difficult. I had thought about the radiant barrier styrofoam stuff too. It has a pretty low R-value but it's cheap and easy to install.

Yes, the water from the tap is warmer than ideal in the summer but that's a problem I already have. I haven't had any adverse affects with prints, but also tend to mix up print developer in distilled water at room temp. I was worried about reticulation with film washing but so far that hasn't been an issue. I can't see any different in prints there. One thing about a shed darkroom is I can better control temperature than I can now, so that may aide in the print developing process.

Good to hear about the Panasonic. Gosh our house fans our loud. I see Panasonic has a conversion kit so wondering if I can replace some of my bathroom ones (including my current bathroom/darkroom - it could stand to have more ventilation than it does, certainly for the amount of noise it currently puts out).


BTW thanks for all the great ideas and help everyone! Gave me a ton to think about!

[Duolab123]

10x10 is pretty darn small. The smallest AC unit you can find will be adequate. Foam insulation would be expensive for such a small job. The beauty of foam is that it seals every crack and crevice. Air infiltration might be a good thing in such a small room, if you sealed it up with foam you might need oxygen.

A safe 1500 watt portable electric heater would be plenty to keep the place warm in the winter with a decent door.

I would go with a hose and a heavy duty extension cord. If you are pulling over 1200 watts you need to account for voltage drop. 12 gauge romex type wiring used indoors is bright yellow, not legal to run across the yard. You would need to run a heavy RV type cord,,or trench in underground cable, not that difficult to do.

Your biggest issue will be humidity. AC won't be enough you will need a dehumidifier.

Maybe convert your kitchen to a darkroom and get a lot of microwave dinners.

[Jim Jones]

When improvising a 8x12' darkroom in a former chicken house, I used fiberglass batting insulation throughout. It was covered with cheap paneling on the outside walls, and the batts were left uncovered on some interior walls. A window type air conditioner was framed into an exterior wall. A dedicated circuit with 10 gauge wire powered it and allowed for whatever I might need in the future. A 5x7 Elwood enlarger had to sit on the floor because of a low ceiling. I carried water in in milk jugs and waste water out in a pail. Storing plenty of jugs of water took care of temperature control. The darkroom was as crude as this sounds, but was cozy and actually fairly efficient.

[Duolab123]

When improvising a 8x12' darkroom in a former chicken house, I used fiberglass batting insulation throughout. It was covered with cheap paneling on the outside walls, and the batts were left uncovered on some interior walls. A window type air conditioner was framed into an exterior wall. A dedicated circuit with 10 gauge wire powered it and allowed for whatever I might need in the future. A 5x7 Elwood enlarger had to sit on the floor because of a low ceiling. I carried water in in milk jugs and waste water out in a pail. Storing plenty of jugs of water took care of temperature control. The darkroom was as crude as this sounds, but was cozy and actually fairly efficient.

My first darkroom was in an old coal bin in my folk's basement. Walls were made out of cardboard boxes from the grocery. It was great!

[Graham Patterson]

Since I am in the San Francisco East Bay, I rarely have to deal with temperatures below freezing, or much above 85F, and only for short periods. I insulated the shed I use (about the same size - the darkroom part is 8x7 with interior pocket door) with fibre glass, and used 3/8 plywood for the interior walls. Although I marked the studs for bench mounting, the plywood is good enough for shelf mounting. And easy enough to unscrew to get behind it.

Ceiling extraction is good to get the heat out in the summer, but not good for heating the space in the winter. I do not have active cooling, and use a simple oil-filled electric heater to warm things up. Since I do not have waste plumbing, the best control on humidity is to not leave the waste bucket un-emptied. I do have a cold water supply for washing. I treat the first rinse after fix as though it was fix for disposal.

Electrical power was already present as the previous owner used it as a wood shop. One thing I might do is run some direct burial Cat5e/Cat6 network cable from the house. Wifi is a bit weak, and I don't want to put a repeater on the property boundary. Not that I need fast network access out there desperately.

[Jim Noel]

2" solid foam with reflective backing against the ceiling makes an excellent barrier to both heat and cold. HD sells it in the correct width to fit between rafters making it quick and easy to install. I have forgotten the rating, but t is high.i

[Bruce Watson]

You lost me a bit on the fan.

Air is compressible. You can pull it, but you can't push it effectively. If you try to push air down a duct with a turn in it, what usually happens at the turn is a drop in airflow. Because what the fan is doing now is raising the static pressure between the fan and the turn in the duct. How much static pressure a fan can produce is a typical fan specification -- it's usually right there on the name plate around the model number. After that level is reached, air flow down the duct is essentially zero. You can't push a rope. You can't push air.

I don't expect many people to actually understand this because most people haven't been through mechanical engineering school. For those that have, this is simple fluid flow. For those that haven't, it's like magic. I get that it's not intuitively obvious, but that doesn't mean that I'm not telling you the truth.

So, put the fan on the outside of the building so it can exhaust into the entire outside atmosphere. It's not possible for an individual fan, no matter how big, to effectively increase atmospheric pressure. So the fan won't generate any increase in static pressure, and therefore will maximize it's airflow.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Geo location is Texas. So summers are hot.

Tell me! I did Basic Training in Texas in August! It's one reason I live in Minnesota now.

Back on-topic I look forward to learning if there is insulation not recommended for hot weather. I have a large garden shed to rebuild - someday.

And thanks to Bruce Watson for his information!

[Tin Can]

I get it and will be putting the fan I am using just inside the outside wall, there will be a dryer type bird screen and rain preventer flap This one worked great in Chicago, I took out a glass brick and installed it. Had to get permission from the Condo ass bureaucracy.



Broan 641 Wall Cap for 6" Round Duct for Range Hoods and Bath Ventilation Fans (https://www.amazon.com/Broan-641-Round-Range-Ventilation/dp/B00QW2BDYW)

As that install had 3 inlets, I put in control flaps. But this time I will not as I have a better handle on what I want.

I still have the big hole saw i will need.


Air is compressible. You can pull it, but you can't push it effectively. If you try to push air down a duct with a turn in it, what usually happens at the turn is a drop in airflow. Because what the fan is doing now is raising the static pressure between the fan and the turn in the duct. How much static pressure a fan can produce is a typical fan specification -- it's usually right there on the name plate around the model number. After that level is reached, air flow down the duct is essentially zero. You can't push a rope. You can't push air.

I don't expect many people to actually understand this because most people haven't been through mechanical engineering school. For those that have, this is simple fluid flow. For those that haven't, it's like magic. I get that it's not intuitively obvious, but that doesn't mean that I'm not telling you the truth.

So, put the fan on the outside of the building so it can exhaust into the entire outside atmosphere. It's not possible for an individual fan, no matter how big, to effectively increase atmospheric pressure. So the fan won't generate any increase in static pressure, and therefore will maximize it's airflow.

[Tin Can]

I trust almost nothing, but I have used that fan and vent for 5 years. I left it in the last wall.

The Dyno Cells I worked in had such great negative air pressure opening the door was very difficult with the 2 fans running. One inlet makeup and a stronger exhaust.

We had Magnehelics (https://www.globaltestsupply.com/product/dwyer-2010-differential-pressure-gauge-range-0-10in-w-c?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_sTayvyR4wIVgrXACh2DawXpEAQYBCABEgJ9lfD_BwE) in each cell.

But never read them as the door told us if a fan had failed.And the room got hot.

About 2500 Cubic feet with 3 changes a minute. Floor pulls for gasoline vapor, but mostly for heat as we ran V-8's 24/7. Huge fans on roof.

All kinds of safeties and fire suppression.

Room explosion did happen at other labs, we never did that, but came too close...




I do not trust CFM specs.

[Bruce Watson]

I still have the big hole saw i will need. :cool:

[m00dawg]

Air is compressible. You can pull it, but you can't push it effectively. If you try to push air down a duct with a turn in it, what usually happens at the turn is a drop in airflow. Because what the fan is doing now is raising the static pressure between the fan and the turn in the duct. How much static pressure a fan can produce is a typical fan specification -- it's usually right there on the name plate around the model number. After that level is reached, air flow down the duct is essentially zero. You can't push a rope. You can't push air.

I don't expect many people to actually understand this because most people haven't been through mechanical engineering school. For those that have, this is simple fluid flow. For those that haven't, it's like magic. I get that it's not intuitively obvious, but that doesn't mean that I'm not telling you the truth.

So, put the fan on the outside of the building so it can exhaust into the entire outside atmosphere. It's not possible for an individual fan, no matter how big, to effectively increase atmospheric pressure. So the fan won't generate any increase in static pressure, and therefore will maximize it's airflow.

Oh I get you now. Yes, I deal with this with PC watercooling. Typically it's high static pressure fans in front of the radiators (though in my next build I may swap one of the radiators and put it in a pull). Those are fans specifically designed to push air through a small radiator so it's a pretty simple problem to solve.

But back to the darkroom, right so if I make a light trap/baffle I need to makes sure the fan is at the end of it so it pulls from inside the room and not pushes. That's probably easy enough, though I'd have to figure out how to protect the fan from the weather.

[Robert Opheim]

HOA's or not you need to insulate heat and cool your darkroom. Otherwise you can have mold. a friend of mine did not heat his darkroom and it is all full of mold. I would expect the enlargers bellows at least are ruined as well as anything else that will hold mold - like negatives and lenses. As far as venting goes - Delta made or makes electric fans and air intakes that are baffled to not allow any light in. I had one of the Delta fans in my last darkroom and was very happy with in. My current darkroom has a ceiling fan over the sink which seems to work OK. As far as heating and cooling a ductless heat pump would be ideal but expensive. Window air conditioners work well and portable heaters or wall heaters work well - you just can't let photographic material be exposed by the electrical elements.

[MrFujicaman]

Dawg.... Home Depot sells heat/AC window type units. I bought one when I was planning to build my darkroom inside a semi trailer I owned. Gave up on that idea! The unit I bought will heat/cool a fairly big room( will check box tomorrow for specs). That might be the way to go.

On the wiring-I'd have a trench dug and use the grey PVC conduit. You might want to oversize it a bit to allow for more service in the future as needed. It'd be way cheaper to pull more wire thru a large pipe than to dig and run more conduit and wire.


Oversize the wire....a safety factor is a lovely thing. Overloading your wiring is one of the fastest ways to burn your house down... When I had this house rewired in 2009, I had bought 750' of 12 gauge Romex before hand-the electrician was told I didn't even wanna hear the words " 14 gauge"!

If your outside box is out of room, your electrician should be able to upgrade you to a larger box. However, I'd call the local electric company and see what the amperage rating is on your service line from the pole. That might need to be upgraded.

[m00dawg]

Thanks for the info everyone! Sounds like while the shed itself isn't that expensive, probably everything else will be haha. I'll have to come up with a price list of sorts I think. Also going to evaluate the price difference in having a prefab shed versus building my own. The bummer is it would be nice if I could iterate things. I don't need to install AC if I build the thing in the fall so I could save some money on that (until the summer) but will still need venting of course, electrical (though in a pinch maybe a battery and an inverter if I don't need an AC for the fall and don't store any chemicals in the shed during the day - meaning I won't need a fridge). But I'll still need a lot of stuff to get going.

I'll let folks know if/when I do it! I'll probably make a build log of sorts to document the progress.

[MrFujicaman]

Okay, the smallest AC/heat unit Home Depot has is a 7500 BTU cooling-3850 BTU/hour heating unit. They claim it will cool 320 square feet. It's 110 volt. $469

[m00dawg]

Okay, the smallest AC/heat unit Home Depot has is a 7500 BTU cooling-3850 BTU/hour heating unit. They claim it will cool 320 square feet. It's 110 volt. $469

Yep this is true! Thing is, the amount of power I need for my darkroom, without AC, is maybe 150W? Enlarger is a cold light, the safelights can be LEDs, maybe a few white LED bulbs. If I converted my enlarger head to LED, pretty much everything in the room could be run on 5-12V DC were it not for the AC. Means I can directly power almost everything with a deep cycle lead acid battery or a large mult-cell lipo even (perhaps a very large one).

With AC though now it's enough power to need to consider conduit. Even that small AC unit at Home Depot, while I could run it with a heavy duty extension cable, I probably shouldn't as noted previously. So now I need a conduit, perhaps some breaker boxes, etc. I'm going to need AC - for sure. But if I save my pennies and look at building this in the fall, I don't have to worry about AC until late spring which gives me a lot of time to save and plan for a more proper solution. I guess the catch is, if I opted for a window/wall unit, I'd have to make sure I framed that out ahead of time.

I dunno I might go full tilt with everything but I need to put my costs together and were where things land. One thing the above isn't accounting for is the few times I'd need heat. In Texas it's not _that_ often, particularly if the shed gets warmed by the sun during the day, but a heater also uses enough energy I'd have to be careful just dragging an everyday extension cord out there. Maybe I can get some hot stones and water and make a sauna :P

[Luis-F-S]

You want to run conduit feed for the electric with a GFI breaker anyway. Three circuits if possible. One for the enlarger, one for the A/C and one for the rest.

[MrFujicaman]

You want to run conduit feed for the electric with a GFI breaker anyway. Three circuits if possible. One for the enlarger, one for the A/C and one for the rest.

I think Luis is right. Plan on 60 amps of service for the darkroom.

[m00dawg]

Any reason for something so high that I'm missing? If the shed was for carpentry work, I could see the need for power for saws and other woodworking stuff, but I calculated my power needs so far and it's less than half that:

Enlarger: 100W
Lighting: 2-20W
Fridge: 250W
Fan: 10W
Split-AC: 1200-2750W (2750W looks to be start up power, 1200W continual)
Rotary: 10W

That's 3140W which is around 28A. Using an in-wall AC, it drops down to 2390W / 21A.

Definitely more than just running a Romex 12 gauge cable out there but less than half of 60A. The AC, unsurprisingly, uses the most amount of power by far. I'm actually more worried about voltage sag with it than the actual power requirements, since that could change my exposure times without a line conditioner since I use a ColdLight. Hadn't bothered with messing with that since my next timer may have a lux compensation and I plan to switch to LEDs eventually anyway. I'd have room for two enlargers though so I put 100W since my other enlarger still uses an incandescent.

Without the AC and fridge, I'm only at about 140W - easily enough to run an extension cable out (with a GFCI end) to get started for fall/winter darkrooming or to power from a 12V battery with an inverter probably for an entire darkroom session. Doing so could give me several months to save for the AC and electrical costs.

[morecfm]

I've installed a mini-split heat pump system in an upstairs addition that was previously serviced by a window type air conditioner. Most conventional air conditioners cycle on and off at full capacity to maintain temperature and are rather noisy. The mini split will dial back from maximum capacity and run constantly to maintain temperature. The discharge air velocity can also adjust automatically downward when dialed back from maximum capacity. If we wind up buying the house we're looking at, the auxiliary building has two sections, a 16x12 room and a 16x30 workshop, both wired and with water and sewer. I have that 16x12 room targeted as a darkroom and would put in perhaps a 6000 BTU/hr mini-split for that room only for the reasons above. Perhaps a bathroom type exhaust fan to allow for some air exchange.

[m00dawg]

OOOH yeah I forgot about the constant control that split-ACs can do. Interesting that central HVACs for homes don't do that. That's likely worth the cost and electricity premium since I can keep my darkroom at a more constant temperature and hopefully it impacts the voltage drag less.

[Tin Can]

I'm in far south Illinois.

Air temp 91 and climbing.

Closed up shed at 106, I have a remote temp sensor in there. 2 hours ago it was 90.

Always wire for 2 or 3 times max amp load.

Somehow we always need more.

France just had a 114 day.

Prepare for HOT!

[Leszek Vogt]

If you are near Fry's (electronics) or order online, you can get a nice AC unit, that also has a dehumidifier and fan built-in > $399. I've bought similar and have been using it for years....this thing has a remote, as well. Oh, it's "energy" rated. One of my fave things on this unit, it's being able to move from room to room as needed....and no window necessary....just an opening. Sooo, I can use it in my office, in the bedroom (to cool off for night) or any other area....the wheels help. No doubt it could be adapted and no light would leak into the interior.

There are tons of heaters out there....you can get one (costing less than $30) and it even has a thermostat. I'm totally with Mr Fujicaman, I've also used 12 gauge wire on the entire house & garage, with exception of heavier stuff like cooktop, oven, etc. I've seen fires (first hand) that started in the wall (duh, wire related)....and outside of melting inferno....it's a v. difficult fire to put out....and most times it engulfs the structure.
Anyhoo, a piece of mind was important to me.

By the way, a decent wood shop needs at least 30A service for table saw and 30A for dust collector, not to mention 20A set up for sizable router or planer/jointer.

Agree with giving bit more power than needed....you just might want to make some coffee and those things drain quite a bit of watts ;).

Les

[jp]

I wired all my outlets in the house with 12g and lights with 14g. Lighting is nothing for load now with LED, CFL and that sort of thing. If you have a big electrical load is will pay for itself quickly in energy efficiency to upsize the wire. At 80% load (minimum wire size for a given load), a certain portion of electricity is wasted heating the wire. Whatever the voltage drop is, it is the wasted energy going into the wire instead of the load. You are allowed to have 3-5% voltage drop, but that's 3-5% waste you don't get back. And bigger wire is good for safety too, though a breaker should trip well before a wire overheats.

[Luis-F-S]

Any reason for something so high that I'm missing? If the shed was for carpentry work, I could see the need for power for saws and other woodworking stuff, but I calculated my power needs so far and it's less than half that:

Enlarger: 100W
Lighting: 2-20W
Fridge: 250W
Fan: 10W
Split-AC: 1200-2750W (2750W looks to be start up power, 1200W continual)
Rotary: 10W

That's 3140W which is around 28A. Using an in-wall AC, it drops down to 2390W / 21A.

Definitely more than just running a Romex 12 gauge cable out there but less than half of 60A. The AC, unsurprisingly, uses the most amount of power by far. I'm actually more worried about voltage sag with it than the actual power requirements, since that could change my exposure times without a line conditioner since I use a ColdLight. Hadn't bothered with messing with that since my next timer may have a lux compensation and I plan to switch to LEDs eventually anyway. I'd have room for two enlargers though so I put 100W since my other enlarger still uses an incandescent.

Without the AC and fridge, I'm only at about 140W - easily enough to run an extension cable out (with a GFCI end) to get started for fall/winter darkrooming or to power from a 12V battery with an inverter probably for an entire darkroom session. Doing so could give me several months to save for the AC and electrical costs.

Do what you want, I've got two 220 V, 60 amp services to my garage which houses the darkroom. It feeds the enlarger 1200 W, print dryer 1800 W, a second enlarger 250 w, a chiller, water heater and various lights, and outlets. Each major component is on its own 20 amp breaker. Also housed are a central air/heat unit, irrigation/backup pump, dry mount press, plate burner, a second washer and dryer, refrigerator and freezer, and a photo studio. Of course, the area is 20' x 40' and two stories, a bit larger than what you're looking at. So if your anticipated load is a minimum of 21A, you should have a 60 amp service.......but you'll figure it out on your own soon enough.

[MusicalPhotog]

Check out my recent post under, “Let’s see your darkroom” discussion. It’s #965 (last page, near the end). I would provide you with a link. But unfortunately, I haven’t mastered that skill yet. :D

[Tin Can]

You need to learn that skill

Click on the post number in the upper right corner, then copy the entire link above in the header by left click first then right click to copy.

Try that and then you need to make a hot link.


Check out my recent post under, “Let’s see your darkroom” discussion. It’s #965 (last page, near the end). I would provide you with a link. But unfortunately, I haven’t mastered that skill yet. :D

[m00dawg]

Found It! (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?56044-Lets-See-Your-Darkroom&p=1508248&viewfull=1#post1508248)

Boy it sure is snazzy on the inside! Very nice setup! I actually hadn't though about having the enlarger on more of a mobile table, so that's a thought. I priced out the raw materials earlier today and I'm up to about $1800 for most of the materials (sans air conditioner though) which isn't bad.

[MusicalPhotog]

You need to learn that skill

Click on the post number in the upper right corner, then copy the entire link above in the header by left click first then right click to copy.

Try that and then you need to make a hot link.

That's the piece I was missing! I didn't realize that the post numbers were actually links. Thank you. That is very helpful.

[MusicalPhotog]

Found It! (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?56044-Lets-See-Your-Darkroom&p=1508248&viewfull=1#post1508248)

Boy it sure is snazzy on the inside! Very nice setup! I actually hadn't though about having the enlarger on more of a mobile table, so that's a thought. I priced out the raw materials earlier today and I'm up to about $1800 for most of the materials (sans air conditioner though) which isn't bad.


Yeah... $1800 for just the building materials sounds about right. I'd budget a couple hundred more just for this and that...stuff that always seems to come up. I think the whole project stayed under $10k, including the cost of the shed itself and the mini-split, which was only about $850. That made the darkroom actually useable year round.

[m00dawg]

Yep that was my plan, though I am going to try to do it in waves as best I can. On the mini-split, does it control temperature well? I've heard with some of those models since they use a heat pump they are precise without having to cycle off/on.

[MusicalPhotog]

Yep that was my plan, though I am going to try to do it in waves as best I can. On the mini-split, does it control temperature well? I've heard with some of those models since they use a heat pump they are precise without having to cycle off/on.

The mini-split is a godsend! Temperature control is extremely precise and quite efficient. And that thing is dead quiet! I have the compressor part mounted on the wall, outside the shed, about 5' from the ground. And I was willing to put up with a bit of noise so long as it made the darkroom livable. When it's going full blast, you can hear a slight low rumble. But it will freeze you out in the summer. Mine is a Gree 1/2 ton (if memory serves) and it's rated for (I think) around 500 sq. ft.; way more than enough for my little space.

[m00dawg]

Ah that's good to know, thanks! Yep the AC is going to be a hard requirement for the warm months (of which there are quite a few here in Texas). My non-AC season is slightly longer since I do most of my darkroom work at night anyway but an AC will be a hard requirement. I'm trying to push it off a bit since the power requirements will add a lot of cost and I can avoid that going into this fall knowing I won't need an AC hopefully until late spring.

I can't avoid all the upfront costs (need to insulate and properly wire the shed when it's built) but can still defer probably a few thousand which is significant since I'll be gaining 3x the space (at least) and better ventilation compared to what I have today.

[MartinP]

As well as insulating the shed, can it have a 'car-port' type of roof-structure over the top of it? That would help considerably in sunny climates as the shed would be in permanent shade, and it would also eliminate rainwater leaks.

The reduction in airco electricity costs would balance out the cost of the sun-roof at some point.

[MusicalPhotog]

As well as insulating the shed, can it have a 'car-port' type of roof-structure over the top of it? That would help considerably in sunny climates as the shed would be in permanent shade, and it would also eliminate rainwater leaks.

The reduction in airco electricity costs would balance out the cost of the sun-roof at some point.

That's an interesting idea; using the poor heat transmission properties of air as an insulator. Of course that works against you in colder climates where you want the sun to help you heat things up. For mine, I used R19 throughout and 5/8 drywall for walls and ceiling. I also have a radiant barrier in the roof rafters and an air gap between the ceiling and the roof. The end result is that it's very easy to warm it up and keep it warm in the winter, and cool it in the summer.

[m00dawg]

Resurrecting this thread a bit - I started looking at options again and even bumped things up to a 12x12 shed in my plans for a while, which would certainly be better, but more expensive so I'm trying to make it work with a 10x10. The price of lumber is going crazy right now, but TuffShed hasn't increased their prices (yet) so I'm wanting to pull the trigger before their prices surely go up. I know some costs (such as OSB or plywood) will cost more to finish things out though.

Here's the current block diagram of sorts:

208097

Puke green boxes are the inlet and outlet louvers (with a fan on the one above the trays), enlargers along the one wall, sink along the opposite wall next to the workbench with a metal breadrack next to it (what I'm using now). The slate blue box is a split-AC and the blue/green box under the rear workbench is a mini-fridge.

Tuffshed mentioned they normally do a radiant barrier _unless_ you plan on insulating (which I am planning on) in which case they switch that out with a house wrap for moisture control. This has me wondering though. If I insulate the insides, of course, I'll want to cover that as well. I had thought about just black plastic but that is also a moisture barrier and might sandwhich moisture in between the walls. So instead I'll be going probably with plywood/OSD. This also seems like it might trap moisture but is what I commonly see. I measured a real shed and thin plywood won't really change the amount of room I have available to play with. I liked the plastic as it was simpler and I wouldn't have to paint the enlarger side.

I wasn't planning on doing everything at the get-go. Minimum is the workbenches and plumbing of the sink. For that I think I'll penetrate the back wall where my trays are just so I have options for if I'm able to get a proper darkroom sink (since that could replace the rear workbench). For power I can just run an electrical cord through the door and use some blackout cloth I think until it gets hot enough to need an AC. If I can, I'd like to go ahead and insulate but that would also mean running electrical even if I wouldn't be using it. That makes me think I can just start with the workbenches with the only caveat being when I do insulate and cover with OSB, It'll take a bit more work to either remove the workbenches at that point or just the OSB to fit around the workbenches.

The split-AC is likely overkill but I like it because it's fully out of the way and most of them use a variable DC compressor which makes them quite efficient. Oh and for humidity for the non-AC months or when I'm not actively cooling the space, I plan on using a dehumidifier. Not cooling the space constantly means of course I won't be storing certain items in the darkroom (like my enlarging lenses) but I think that's an ok trade-off.

If anyone else is planning something like this, happy to share some of my item and pricelists. It won't be a university level darkroom of course but much much better than my tiny existing bathroom/darkroom.

[Maris Rusis]

I did my third darkroom build a few years ago and worked through much the same considerations as you are facing. I found that the thing that really makes the darkroom a pleasant and productive place is the reverse cycle air-conditioner; wouldn't be without it winter or summer. Then I figured since air-conditioned air costs money why continually pump it out via the air extraction/ventilation system. So I omitted all those fans , ducts, and louvers in favor of a blank wall. And I also omitted nasty acetic acid stop bath in favor of the odorless citric acid version. Smelly acid fixer was substituted by Fotospeed FX30 Odorless fixer. My developers, Xtol and Dektol, have negligible odor. So the "fume" problem was well solved without machinery and expense.

[m00dawg]

I did my third darkroom build a few years ago and worked through much the same considerations as you are facing. I found that the thing that really makes the darkroom a pleasant and productive place is the reverse cycle air-conditioner; wouldn't be without it winter or summer. Then I figured since air-conditioned air costs money why continually pump it out via the air extraction/ventilation system. So I omitted all those fans , ducts, and louvers in favor of a blank wall. And I also omitted nasty acetic acid stop bath in favor of the odorless citric acid version. Smelly acid fixer was substituted by Fotospeed FX30 Odorless fixer. My developers, Xtol and Dektol, have negligible odor. So the "fume" problem was well solved without machinery and expense.

Ah I'm glad you mentioned this as I was wondering how folks balance this sort of problem. It can get up to like 104F/40C here in the summers so AC is all but a must. A ventilation system would certainly be pulling a lot of cool air out. I was thinking about trying some RA-4 printing eventually and like to tone my nice fiber prints in selenium. Those are the two cases where I think I would like ventilation. I do my selenium toning in my garage right now and it's pretty inconvenient.

I was thinking though about making some vent covers to block a big portion of the air exchange for when I don't need that level of ventilation (like when developing film since, like you, I also use XTOL - replenishment in my case).

For film I use a water stop, but still use a stop for prints but was thinking about switching to something like vinegar or another more eco friendly option over an indicator stop.

[Maris Rusis]

The big stink in a conventional black and white darkroom, the one some people spend hundreds dollars trying to conquer is, 99% of the time, acetic acid fume from the stop bath. Vinegar is just another name for acetic acid and it has the same nose-wrinkling smell. Rather than bring acetic acid in any form into my darkroom I use Fotospeed SB50 Odorless Indicator Stop Bath which is citric acid based; looks like acetic, works like acetic, same indicator, but no smell.

[Luis-F-S]

If the subdivision regs don't allow window units, mount the window unit in a box INSIDE the shed with only the back end sticking out. That way, it won't really be visible. If needed, you could put shutters to hide it, and open them when in use. As noted earlier, the smallest unit should suffice. L

[m00dawg]

The big stink in a conventional black and white darkroom, the one some people spend hundreds dollars trying to conquer is, 99% of the time, acetic acid fume from the stop bath. Vinegar is just another name for acetic acid and it has the same nose-wrinkling smell. Rather than bring acetic acid in any form into my darkroom I use Fotospeed SB50 Odorless Indicator Stop Bath which is citric acid based; looks like acetic, works like acetic, same indicator, but no smell.

Oddly I don't find Ilford Stop Bath off-putting. Fixer yes, though I wouldn't say "off-putting" more like "noticeable". Granted, TF-5 is quite smelly (I only use it for film at the moment as a result).

Selenium though is definitely something I want ventilation for, along with RA-4. I haven't figured it out yet but I do like the idea of being able to cover the vents.

[Willie]

https://www.bismanonline.com/2015_ice_castle_black_ice_8x16v_hydraulic_frame/?app_track=suggested_from_adview

No, I am not selling this. Ice fishing houses come in all sizes and types. Some of these luxury items or even bare bones types would make good darkrooms - if not a home.

Take it with you when you travel. Lower it to the ground just as you would on lake ice and you are solid. Mix the chemistry and start developing your film and making prints. Don't have to wait til you get home to be sure you have the shot.

It is amazing to me that some spend well over $40,000 for a place to drink beer and tell lies all winter.

[m00dawg]

(First that ice fishing shack thing would be epic for wet plate!)

So hmm, I ordered a Doran louver from BH (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43102-REG/Doran_DOL1212_L_1212_Light_Tight_Darkroom.html) and while the instructions indicates it should have a pipe connection, one didn't come with it.

Anyone use one of these for a darkroom like this? I used my phone to shine light through it and it mostly blocked light. I managed to get some light leaks at a certain angle. I kinda thought I would use a pipe here pointing downwards to avoid any leaks.

Thoughts?

[Tin Can]

I use one, no light leaks

I put it in the darkroom door to aid air exchange

[m00dawg]

Whoa thanks for the wicked quick reply! Yes I was thinking of either the door as well. I was planning on using a blackout curtain so also though of putting it off to the side under my workbench. That'll help cover up any light leaks if there were any and also let me use a curtain over the door.

The remaining issue is there's no vents up near the roof. AC will take care of that in the summer but in between that'll certainly be a hot spot. I thought about putting a vent up high for that reason (i want to keep my fan'ed louver above the chemical trays though)

[Tin Can]

When I want more air movement, I change my HVAC to constant fan, which evens things out well, just remember to turn it back to auto later