Jobo Expert Drum versus 2500 drum + 2509N Reel

[Peter De Smidt]

I've used a 5x7 Jobo Expert drum for many years on my CPP-2, but lately I've started to develop more film, and I'd like to up my capacity. The 10-sheet Expert Drum is a bit too pricey for me. Since I already have some 2500 series print drum, I've thought about adding two 2509N reels, which hold 6 sheet each. I could put them in the proper drum to do 12 at a time. Does anyone here use the 2509n reels? How happy are you with them?

[Fred L]

I have those reels, but don't use them very often as I prefer the expert drums tbh. Picked up my drums over the years when deals came up, so keep your eyes peeled. But if you already have the tanks and just need the reels, that would be the way less expensive option. Good luck !

Takes some time to get used to loading them properly, and to seat the wings as well.

[tgtaylor]

I've used the 2509N reels in a 2500 drum for years without any problems except with hand inversion method beginning about a year or so after I bought the reels new. It seems that photoflo built up on the reels and interfered with the flow of the developer at the very edge of the sheet where the sheet fits into the reels side resulting in an undeveloped band appearing at that location. . I'm guessing on this but photoflo build-up is the only causation I can think of. In any event the problem disappeared when I started rotary processing with the reels. The photoflo problem could be avoided simply by removing the sheets from the reel and placing in a tray for the photoflo step instead of rolling the reel in a card file type container of photoflo as I did back then. Also, Jobo advises to add an empty reel (or two) if there is extra room on the core - something about improving/evening the flow of the chemistry. As Fred mentions above, the reels are a little tricky to load. If you search this forum I posted a step-by-step instruction on how I load the reels.

Thomas

Thomas

[Peter De Smidt]

Thanks, Guys.

[mpirie]

I use my 2500 drums and 2509n reels for rotary processing all the time.

Like you, i struggle to justify paying the price of the Expert drums.

There is a sheet film loader for the 2509 reels, but i've never found the need for it.

To use a 2000 series print drum with two 2509 reels, you'd need a long centre core too to make sure there are no leaks from the lid and to keep the reels central.

I've thought of taking the same approach myself, but never got round to it.

Mike

[Peter De Smidt]

Thanks, Mike.

[mpirie]

If you do give the twin 2509 reel in a print drum a try, let us know, i'd be very interested in your results.

Mike

[Peter De Smidt]

Will do. I just realized that I could alternately use my 8x10 Expert drum. Putting two 4x5" negs in each slot shouldn't be a big deal. That'd give me 10 at a time.

[Duolab123]

I've got expert drums and the reels. I am not a professional so I'm in no hurry. I actually prefer the 2509n reels. I've got a mountain of this stuff. I use the loader and IR goggles because it's all cool. The reels you can process 18 sheets at a go, washing is so easy. Expert drums are awesome don't get me wrong. But so expensive.

[tonyowen]

Like some of the earlier postings I used a 2500 drum plus 2509n reel. I do not have the 4x5 wings nor do I use a loader.

I sometimes have hassles loading paper negatives into the reel - [maybe I cut the paper a bit too narrow or too wide].

Generally the 2500 + 2509n works for me - Also it is very economical with chemicals and the film/paper can be processed in daylight - no need for a darkroom etc.

The downside, if any, is that you cannot observe the developing stage of the paper/film.

Regards
Tony

[afxstudio]

I use the 2520 with 2509n reel all the time, being my first and only method so far. I'm relatively new to LF and absolutely new to film development in general.
I also load the reel in a cheap changing bag, so you might have an advantage if you use a tent or a proper darkroom.
Nonetheless I don't really have any problems loading up the reel, it's a matter of practice and by the second try you shouldn't be struggling, really.
I tend to use my left thumb to spot the guidelines on the top, starting for the inner, and my right hand to handle the film and push it inside.
I'm really not sure whether the 2520 can be used with the CPE-3 processor or not.

I also had considered the drum expert but it was way too pricey. To be honest, Jobo products seem to be way to expensive for what they are, basically plastic cilinders and reels. But they get the job done so yeah...

[Peter De Smidt]

Yeah, I bought my Jobo stuff back in the mid-1990s. It was expensive then, but not near as bad as today. The reels are about $70 a piece. I'll pick up one to start.

[Phil Hudson]

I have used both systems and although loading the 2509n reels is not hard I have had some odd processing artefacts (eg chemical swirls?) using this method. I never conclusively solved it. I have had consistently even results with the Expert drums but I agree that the price can be hard to justify.

[Peter De Smidt]

Hey, Phil. That's what I'm most concerned with, and it's one of the reasons I haven't gone to deep tanks and hangers. Expert drums give very even results.

[mpirie]

No-one wants another "How do you process your film" thread, but in response to Phil's comments about processing artefacts, i suffered the same until i changed my routine.

Now, i prewash the film (in 2509n reels in a 2521 tank) at a high speed (marked P on my CPE2) for 5 minutes; but every minute or so, i lift the tank off the gears using the arm to about 30 degrees in order to force the pre-wash water to move forward towards the lid of the tank then return it back to the processor bed for the remaining time. Hopefully it helps break the laminar flow that can build up.

Just before i dump the pre-wash water, i reduce the rotation speed down to the "F" speed and carry out the same lifting manoeuvre for the developer cycle too, but obviously at the slower speed.

The only thing i haven't resolved is the odd mark on the emulsion where the film touches some small raised notches that are designed to keep the film off the track of the reel. Loading the film with the emulsion to the outside rather than the inside might help, but i suspect there are notches on both tracks of the reel.

Mike

[Peter De Smidt]

Thanks for the tips, Mike.

[Jim Noel]

I've used the 2509N reels in a 2500 drum for years without any problems except with hand inversion method beginning about a year or so after I bought the reels new. It seems that photoflo built up on the reels and interfered with the flow of the developer at the very edge of the sheet where the sheet fits into the reels side resulting in an undeveloped band appearing at that location. . I'm guessing on this but photoflo build-up is the only causation I can think of. In any event the problem disappeared when I started rotary processing with the reels. The photoflo problem could be avoided simply by removing the sheets from the reel and placing in a tray for the photoflo step instead of rolling the reel in a card file type container of photoflo as I did back then. Also, Jobo advises to add an empty reel (or two) if there is extra room on the core - something about improving/evening the flow of the chemistry. As Fred mentions above, the reels are a little tricky to load. If you search this forum I posted a step-by-step instruction on how I load the reels.

Thomas

Thomas

Photo Flo is a Catalyst which builds up in the grooves of reels and will eventually causes this problem. Reels should never be put in this foul liquid. LFN does a better job and does not cause this problem. No, I do not have any connection to the provider of LFN

[Peter De Smidt]

I don't ever use a surficant with films on reels. I always use a separate container with the film off any reels. For long rolls, I dip one end in the bath and then pull that end up, while lowering the other end.