Dark shade on negative

[rpagliari]

I just developed a sheet and I noticed a dark strip on the right side of the image (see attached). I'm not sure what that could be (I used the sp45 development tank).


191888

[bob carnie]

This is the single most common mistake in film processing here or on other sites I see.. Problem is neutral sky's or grey areas show process defaults.. To solve this the first 15 seconds of development good agitation must happen, as well sufficient chems to process in.

I use Jobo system and even then I will invert and twist for 15- 20 seconds to ensure chem's get to all areas of the negatives and fast. hope you solve the problem .

[rpagliari]

This is the single most common mistake in film processing here or on other sites I see.. Problem is neutral sky's or grey areas show process defaults.. To solve this the first 15 seconds of development good agitation must happen, as well sufficient chems to process in.

I use Jobo system and even then I will invert and twist for 15- 20 seconds to ensure chem's get to all areas of the negatives and fast. hope you solve the problem .

Why would it happen on the right side of the image only?

[Bruce Watson]

Why would it happen on the right side of the image only?

Because you didn't cover the entire film with developer at the same time. For example, you were tray processing and put the film into the developer emulsion side up and didn't get that last bit on the right side pushed under the developer for a second or two (and that's all it takes) after the center was pushed under.

Film development is weird stuff -- the first couple of seconds are crucial to getting even development.

[blue4130]

Because you didn't cover the entire film with developer at the same time. For example, you were tray processing and put the film into the developer emulsion side up and didn't get that last bit on the right side pushed under the developer for a second or two (and that's all it takes) after the center was pushed under.

Film development is weird stuff -- the first couple of seconds are crucial to getting even development.

That doesn't make sense in this case though. The SP-445 tank loads vertically.

[Jim Jones]

I always use a pre-wash to guard against this problem. Some film makers say a pre-wash is not needed. However, with a few film and developer combinations it is absolutely necessary.

[NER]

I have not solved photography and don't know the answer to your question; however your problem interested me enough to watch a tutorial video about the SP-445 tank, so I have some idea of how the tank is constructed and how it is supposed to work, and on the basis of that very limited bit of information, I offer the following for your consideration. First of all, it is clear that this aberration is caused by uneven development, i.e., namely that the edge received less development than other parts of the negative and therefore the positive is darker in the affected areas. Second, and very importantly, the problem is not limited to the right side of the image. If you look very carefully at your scan you will see that the problem occurs on the left side as well. It is not so obvious along the full length of the image, but it is apparent in the lower left corner of the positive (the difference can be made more obvious by running the image through different filters in PhotoShop and, I assume, other comparable programs). So taken together, what does all of this suggest? My guess, and here I cannot overemphasize the word "guess," is that you may have inadvertently loaded the negative in the an orientation opposite to that recommended by the maker, i.e., the film was loaded with the emulsion side facing the continuous, unbroken, flat part of the holder vs. having the emulsion side facing outward toward the intermittently-spaced tabs that hold the sheet film in place to prevent it floating away from the holder. If that is indeed what happened, then it may be possible that the developer did not reach those edges of the film as quickly as the developer covered the remainder of the negative, e.g., because the film edges may have adhered slightly to the flat parts of the holder, partially on the positive left, and more completely on the positive right, for a brief time - certainly longer than 1 or 2 seconds - and the agitation provided was not sufficient to dislodge the stuck parts quickly enough to give even development across the entire negative. I do not know the proper name for this adhesion but what I am thinking of is not unlike what happens when a bit of liquid or humidity causes a dry negative to stick to another negative, to a polyethylene sleeve, or to some other material. I assume the problem could be exacerbated if you happened to use only one holder and cross loaded it so that there was more pressure on the edges than would otherwise occur, but I am certainly not suggesting that was the case. I do not assert that this theory is correct, and will not be the least bit embarrassed or ashamed if it is determined to be wrong. In the meantime, I too recommend that you pre-soak to minimize this problem going forward if you are not already using a pre-soak, and I also recommend that you contact the manufacturer of the SP-445 directly to see what they might have to say about the cause and cure, especially if the problem is a recurrent one.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

[rpagliari]

I have not solved photography and don't know the answer to your question; however your problem interested me enough to watch a tutorial video about the SP-445 tank, so I have some idea of how the tank is constructed and how it is supposed to work, and on the basis of that very limited bit of information, I offer the following for your consideration. First of all, it is clear that this aberration is caused by uneven development, i.e., namely that the edge received less development than other parts of the negative and therefore the positive is darker in the affected areas. Second, and very importantly, the problem is not limited to the right side of the image. If you look very carefully at your scan you will see that the problem occurs on the left side as well. It is not so obvious along the full length of the image, but it is apparent in the lower left corner of the positive (the difference can be made more obvious by running the image through different filters in PhotoShop and, I assume, other comparable programs). So taken together, what does all of this suggest? My guess, and here I cannot overemphasize the word "guess," is that you may have inadvertently loaded the negative in the an orientation opposite to that recommended by the maker, i.e., the film was loaded with the emulsion side facing the continuous, unbroken, flat part of the holder vs. having the emulsion side facing outward toward the intermittently-spaced tabs that hold the sheet film in place to prevent it floating away from the holder. If that is indeed what happened, then it may be possible that the developer did not reach those edges of the film as quickly as the developer covered the remainder of the negative, e.g., because the film edges may have adhered slightly to the flat parts of the holder, partially on the positive left, and more completely on the positive right, for a brief time - certainly longer than 1 or 2 seconds - and the agitation provided was not sufficient to dislodge the stuck parts quickly enough to give even development across the entire negative. I do not know the proper name for this adhesion but what I am thinking of is not unlike what happens when a bit of liquid or humidity causes a dry negative to stick to another negative, to a polyethylene sleeve, or to some other material. I assume the problem could be exacerbated if you happened to use only one holder and cross loaded it so that there was more pressure on the edges than would otherwise occur, but I am certainly not suggesting that was the case. I do not assert that this theory is correct, and will not be the least bit embarrassed or ashamed if it is determined to be wrong. In the meantime, I too recommend that you pre-soak to minimize this problem going forward if you are not already using a pre-soak, and I also recommend that you contact the manufacturer of the SP-445 directly to see what they might have to say about the cause and cure, especially if the problem is a recurrent one.

N. Riley
http://normarileyphotography.com

Thanks a lot NER. I did not do pre-rinse, but I think your suggestion is s. There is spot on. There is no way to check but it makes perfect sense. I will be more careful next time.

[rdeloe]

N. Riley's idea is highly probable, and you can check for yourself. Measure the width of the plastic bars on each side of the holder. If they correspond, that's your answer. Early on with this tank, I managed to load two sheets in the same side! It happens.

Another suggestion for future: Tim, the creator and seller of the SP-445, is quite responsive on email. He helped me figure a few things out over email.

[rpagliari]

I developed another negative with the mod54 and got the same result. I think it might be the bellows that is shading a bit.

[NER]

Interesting. Let's see if we can solve this. Do you see this shading on both vertical and horizontal compositions, and is the shading always on the left and right in both vertical and horizontal compositions? Also, have you tried traditional tank development or tray development and if so, do still see this shading when developing by either of those methods? Lastly, I've assumed that the sample image seen above is a direct negative scan. Is that correct, or is this instead a print scan?

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

[rpagliari]

It is a negative scan, and used Silverfast with it, and see shading only along the long side.

I did a test yesterday at home and I did not see the bands anymore. This time I did the inversions with more energy than usual; I think I was previously being too gentle and also inverting too slowly.

I only have time over the weekend, so in a few days I will try again; this time I will be more aggressive when inverting the tank and let you know.

[rpagliari]

I just found out that gentle vs vigorous agitation depends on whether or not the tank is is full. When I was doing it gently, the tank was full and that might explain uneven development.

With mod54 do you fill it with 1L of liquid or do you use less?

[NER]

I'm afraid I can't answer that question because I do not use a Mod 54 reel or any other type of tank (I use tray development for both 45 and 810 negatives). Variations in agitation might explain the problem you're experiencing, but I think it must be something more than that because, as I understand it, the problem always occurs along the long edges of the negatives, and if it was solely agitation causing this problem, I would expect more generalized indications of insufficient agitation, e.g., low contrast or, in extreme cases, even bromide drag. If the film is loaded such that the edges are in close contact with the reel (or the edges of the holder in the case of your SP-445 and backward loading), insufficient agitation may limit the amount of fresh developer reaching the covered areas of the film, giving rise to the problem seen in your original scan. That does seem plausible, and in that case, presoaking might help. Regardless of what development method is used, consistency in every aspect of development, including agitation, is essential. Film is a perfectly obedient and predictable material. If you do the same thing with it every time, it will give you the same result every time. There are no exceptions.

N. Riley
http://normanrileyphotography.com

[rpagliari]

I'm pre washing now and agitating much more vigorously. So far, the negatives come out ok, so I think you are right.

[bob carnie]

This is a vexing problem for even the most experienced worker.. I had processed over 50thousand rolls sheets of film before I saw a problem somewhat like posted.. Always in neutral bckgrounds and for the life of me it took 3 months and I closed down my film development till I could solve the problem. Basically I attributed it to the water coming off the city line, and more importantly I started doing manual inversions and twists in the first 15 seconds of development.... this allowed the developer to get to every square inch of the film in the least amount of time... I am sure this is why some recommend a presoak, which allows the chems to get where they need to be faster.... I use Jobo and to this day still do the twist and invert before the second I get the full amount of developer in the tank, this has solved all my issues with this very common processing problem..

You may want to use distilled water in your developer as well , which may allow the transfer quicker to engulf the entire surface with fresh developer.

[Doremus Scudder]

I had a similar problem with developing 120 film. The solution (after a lot of rolls exposed under the enlarger and developed with different agitation schemes, etc.) was to make sure not to fill the tank completely, but enough to cover the film completely, and to agitate vigorously and randomly, especially at the beginning of development. This seems to be your solution as well.

Best.

Doremus

[rpagliari]

This is a vexing problem for even the most experienced worker.. I had processed over 50thousand rolls sheets of film before I saw a problem somewhat like posted.. Always in neutral bckgrounds and for the life of me it took 3 months and I closed down my film development till I could solve the problem. Basically I attributed it to the water coming off the city line, and more importantly I started doing manual inversions and twists in the first 15 seconds of development.... this allowed the developer to get to every square inch of the film in the least amount of time... I am sure this is why some recommend a presoak, which allows the chems to get where they need to be faster.... I use Jobo and to this day still do the twist and invert before the second I get the full amount of developer in the tank, this has solved all my issues with this very common processing problem..

You may want to use distilled water in your developer as well , which may allow the transfer quicker to engulf the entire surface with fresh developer.

Thanks for the suggestion. Using distilled also improved a lot. With distilled water and energetic agitation, everything seems to be fine so far.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I just developed a sheet and I noticed a dark strip on the right side of the image (see attached). I'm not sure what that could be (I used the sp45 development tank).


191888


So just to verify, the dark, vertical stripe I see on the positive image you provided, is in fact a light stripe on the negative? In other words, the stripe is actually on the negative?

[rpagliari]

So just to verify, the dark, vertical stripe I see on the positive image you provided, is in fact a light stripe on the negative? In other words, the stripe is actually on the negative?

Yes, it is light on the negative, and therefore, dark on the positive image. It's happened on the short side as well, and always with neutral background. Neutral, meaning no texture, such as water or sky in long exposure.

I mitigated the effect by agitating more rigorously. I will try adding random twists to see if it can be removed completely.

[bob carnie]

Yes, it is light on the negative, and therefore, dark on the positive image. It's happened on the short side as well, and always with neutral background. Neutral, meaning no texture, such as water or sky in long exposure.

I mitigated the effect by agitating more rigorously. I will try adding random twists to see if it can be removed completely.

When I agitate film I pretend my hands are at the 12 position and the 6 position when driving and I invert 180 which creates not only an inversion but a twist as well which if done asap the dev gets into the tank and with determination you should never see these minus density areas on your negs again.