3 Lenses (1x240mm + 2x210mm) and 2 Cameras (4x5 + 8x10)

[LAamLE]

Hello forum members,

what I am about.
I have in my fundus 3 lens:

- Nikkor W 210/5,6 - Imagecircle 295 - Copal 1
- Fujinon W 210/5,6 - Imagecircle 352 - Seiko
- Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar S 240/5,6 - Imagecircle 337 - Copal 3


The cameras are a Chamonix 4x5 and a Deardorff 8x10

My wish is a lens for both camera. Only the Fujinon W210 / 5.6 is suitable for this purpose, , the Symmar S is in my opinion too heavy for the Chamonix.

- The Nikkor is eliminated for the 8x10 due to the image circle, the size/weight, the two lenses are very similar.
- The size/weight difference between the Fujinon and the Schneider is enormous. The Schneider Kreuznach has 30mm more focal length the Fujinon the slightly larger image circle. For the Chamonix, the Schneider is probably too big.

The question which arises to me is the following. Do I keep the Fujinon for both formats, or vice versa, is there any significant difference between the imaging performance between the lenses?
Why such a big thing as the Schneider-Kreuznach and not the Fujinon?

I would be happy about answers or thoughts.

Thanks Andreas

P.S. Sorry for my english

[Peter De Smidt]

The big 240s were made mostly for studio use. For that use, size didn't really matter, and a bright ground glass did. If I were you, I'd mount the two 210s on your 8x10, focus a scene, use movements, and examine the ground glass with a good loupe. Or you could take a picture with both using, say, maximum rise, and compare the fall off of sharpness characteristics.

[Bernice Loui]

Image circle of 352mm for the Fujinon W 210/5,6 is "optimistic".

Consider this data sheet for Fujinon lenses:
191809


Realistically, the Fujinon W is of the same generic lens formulation as the Nikkor & Symmar which produces about 70 degrees image coverage or about 300mm and the image quality at the designed edge of the lens is often not ideal. Add to this the touchy topic of "stopping down" as far as possible to increase image circle.

Curious, where did the 352mm image circle for the 210mm f5.5 Fujinon W come from?


The only lens in this group that works as specified by the manufacture would be the 240mm f5.6 Symmar. This goes back to the numerous previous discussions about 210mm lenses for 8x10.



Bernice

[Vaughn]

The 210mm Fuji W with inside lettering is not the same lens as the 210 W on your list. Single coated, and a different design which gave more coverage. I do not have one to test.

Your list also does not have the older (and inside lettering) Fuji W 250/6.7, which has a much larger coverage than the Fuji W 250/6.3.

[MAubrey]

Here's the info for the Fujinon W that the OP has:
191821

[Vaughn]

Thank you -- very helpful. I have the 80 degree 180/5.6, but have not tried it on the 8x10 (a fine 5x7 lens)...but it looks like it will cover under some circumstances.

I have the 80 degree 360mm for use with the 11x14 -- but due to mechanical vignetting, tend to use it at f32 or smaller aperture (larger f/stop)...sometimes I can get away with f22. This is where I find the cut corners of my GG to be of great help.

I also have the Fuji W 250/6.7 -- this would be a great lens for both 4x5 and 8x10. I use it primarily for the 8x10 and played with it on the 11x14 (not a great choice for that). If I did not already have a fine 210mm/6.3 Computar for the 5x7, I would use the 250/6.7 on that camera as well.

But thinking on it, if the lensboards were more compatible (between the 5x7 and 8x10), the Fuji W 180/5.6 and 250/6.7 would make a more usable pairing on my 5x7. The 180 and 210 are too close, and my recent trip to upstate NY, I only took the 180mm to save a little weight/space since I was flying...and I knew I would be photographing in tight quarters (Watkins Glen, etc).

[Pere Casals]

Why such a big thing as the Schneider-Kreuznach and not the Fujinon?

All are excellent lenses, the Nikkor W is excellent fot 4x5, but circle is the less suitable for 8x10, so 2 choices remain.

Is the fujinon single coated ? if this is the case... you should know if you want MC or not...

Then we have the shutter... Seiko is excellent but probably it's easy to find a repair/CLA service for the Copal, so I'd keep the Symmar-S, it isn't a too big lens, if you are able to haul a Deardorff then a 240 floats in the air, compared.

To me, the single reason to keep the Fujinon is wanting 210 instead 240mm.

There is a sample to sample performance variation, that variability is probably higher that the average performance difference between lens types, and that difference may be difficult to be seen in practical photography, but anyway before deciding I would investigate how good are the particular samples you have.

[MAubrey]

Is the fujinon single coated ? if this is the case... you should know if you want MC or not...

This is something that's a little ambiguous. I've read regularly that all the inside lettering Fujinon W's are single coated and all the ones I've seen have the yellow-tint coating that looks like single coating.

On the other hand, there's this statement from the same brochure that I posted a page from above:
191830

[Drew Wiley]

All these lenses you're considering sound skimpy on image circle for 8x10. The Fuji 250/6.7 W will do it, or the 240 A. Both are light enough for a field camera, the A version especially so.

[Peter De Smidt]

Or a 240mm Doctor Optic, a g-claron, graphic kowa/kyvyx/computar....

[Drew Wiley]

With a Kowa Graphic etc you can even make a 210 do the trick, but under the Computar label have to be certain of the correct version, which is NOT a Symmetrigon.

[Peter De Smidt]

Very true. Symmetrigon's don't have particularly large image circles.

[Vaughn]

Very true. Symmetrigon's don't have particularly large image circles.
I have the 210/6.3 version -- a wonderful, under-rated sharp lens with good contrast...but will not cover 8x10.

[pepeguitarra]

I did not read that the OP has the Fuji 250/6.7. However, just to add to the unrelated discussion, I use the G-Claron 210/9 and G-Claron 240/9 for both cameras 4x5&8x10. You can sell all three and get one of the G-Clarons. :)

[LAamLE]

thanks for all the information.

I'll probably sell the fujinon and stay with Nikkor 210 for 4x5 and Symmar 240 for 8x10.
The fujinon seems somehow to be a compromise. Also I do not like the Seiko shutter so much.
If I have a little time I will try the Symmar on the Chamonix 4x5 and decide if I just keep only this.

[pepeguitarra]

thanks for all the information.

I'll probably sell the fujinon and stay with Nikkor 210 for 4x5 and Symmar 240 for 8x10.
The fujinon seems somehow to be a compromise. Also I do not like the Seiko shutter so much.
If I have a little time I will try the Symmar on the Chamonix 4x5 and decide if I just keep only this.

The Sheiko shutters are as good as the Copals. However, to open it for focussing you have to cock it. Many people forget that and try to open it without cocking, which ends up in breaking the lever. I have one like that with the Fuji 250/6.7, and I have to focus with the shutter in T. Most people who work on Rolleis will be able to service the Seiko shutters.