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Arcus
22-May-2019, 18:22
Should an older front element surface be cleaned the same way a modern lens is cleaned: blower, brush and then lens paper/fluid? Are older coatings more delicate?

BrianShaw
22-May-2019, 18:29
Right or wrong, I’ve done that without damaging a lens but now I use microfiber cloths.

Mostly, though, I don’t clean lenses unless absolutely necessary.

Bob Salomon
22-May-2019, 18:36
Should an older front element surface be cleaned the same way a modern lens is cleaned: blower, brush and then lens paper/fluid? Are older coatings more delicate?

Throw out the lens paper and get a good micro fiber cloth and use and wash it per the directions.

Willie
22-May-2019, 19:59
ROR mist and cotton balls works fine. ROR is "Residual Oil Remover".

Peter De Smidt
22-May-2019, 20:10
I've used ROR for a very long time, and it's very good, but this is even better: https://www.edmundoptics.com/f/purosoltrade-optical-cleaner/12946/

Arcus
22-May-2019, 22:11
No love for Zeiss wipes?

goamules
23-May-2019, 06:00
Proper technique is more important than materials. I use more solvent and less pressure. I lay the lens so the surface is horizontal. Put 1-2 drops of cleaning fluid on the center. Do not let any run under the mount edges. Lay a 2" piece of cleaning cloth (I've used several types of them, currently an old silk shirt) onto the drop of liquid. Do not press down with your fingers! Just let the surface tension of the solvent hold the wipe. Grab the edge of the wipe, turn the lens with your other hand. let the very wet wipe spiral to the outside one time. Throw it away and repeat with new drops and new wipe. This will loosen any surface grit that could scratch if you use any pressure, and move it to the edge or onto the wipe. After 3-5 times, you should be able to inspect the glass. At this point, there may be smudges still, but no grit. Now use another clean wipe (you always want to use a fresh one with no dirt for each pass) and drops, and perhaps gentle pressure. Done.

Jim Noel
23-May-2019, 06:18
Activated charcoal, available at health food store. Dip Q-tip in it, shake off excess and lightly apply it in concentric circles. No liquid to seep under edge of lens,and it makes lenses sparkle - no scratches.

Bob Salomon
23-May-2019, 06:36
Proper technique is more important than materials. I use more solvent and less pressure. I lay the lens so the surface is horizontal. Put 1-2 drops of cleaning fluid on the center. Do not let any run under the mount edges. Lay a 2" piece of cleaning wipe (I've used several types of them, currently an old silk shirt) onto the drop of liquid. Do not press down with your fingers! Just let the surface tension of the solvent hold the wipe. Grab the edge of the wipe, turn the lens with your other hand. let the very wet wipe spiral to the outside one time. Throw it away and repeat with new drops and new wipe. This will loosen any surface grit that could scratch if you use any pressure, and move it to the edge or onto the wipe. After 3-5 times, you should be able to inspect the glass. At this point, there may be smudges still, but no grit. Now use another clean wipe (you always want to use a fresh one with no dirt for each pass) and drops, and perhaps gentle pressure. Done.
Removing surface grit this way will result in scratches, maybe very small ones but scratches.
Blow surface first with a really good blaster like the Rocket Blaster before touching the lens with any material. Especially material that will absorb the moisture into the material itself! The secret to micro fiber cloth is that any dirt, dust, grease, etc. on the lens will be held in the weave of the cloth and will not be absorbed into the material itself. That is why you can simply wash the cloth clean.

Alan Gales
23-May-2019, 08:08
Mostly, though, I don’t clean lenses unless absolutely necessary.


+1

For many years I shot a Contax 35mm camera with 5 Zeiss lenses. I kept UV filters on my lenses all the time. Whenever I came home from a shoot I'd blow the dust off the filters with a blower brush, wipe off the lens barrels and only clean the filter if something had gotten on it. After I got into large format, I sold my lenses on eBay and got top dollar. The buyers couldn't believe how nice they were. All the coatings were perfect. Even the UV filters looked fantastic. One fellow even contacted me and asked me how I cleaned my lenses.

I never noticed any degradation from using the Contax filters. A friend of mine always takes the clear filter off the lens before each shot and then immediately replaces it. It's easy for him to do since all he photographs are landscapes.

EdSawyer
23-May-2019, 11:47
the zeiss wipes are just cheap alcohol wipes, nothing special. zeiss really whored their name out on those.

Louis Pacilla
23-May-2019, 12:08
the zeiss wipes are just cheap alcohol wipes, nothing special. zeiss really whored their name out on those.

Yep!

Arcus
23-May-2019, 23:46
the zeiss wipes are just cheap alcohol wipes, nothing special. zeiss really whored their name out on those.

Well, they're only six cents a piece when bought in boxes of 400. Isopropyl works well on glass lenses.

My main concern was the older coatings though. Anyone aware of a good reference, you know, like some old German lens repairman?

I looked up the MSDS on that ROR stuff.

http://www.ror.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Material-Safety-Data-Sheet-JUNE-20121.pdf

pepeguitarra
24-May-2019, 00:26
The key is the blower and the brush. If not used properly, you will be grinding the glass with the dust with, with paper, microfiber, or any other cloth used to rub it, leaving those "cleaning marks" that are really scratches)

Mark Sawyer
24-May-2019, 01:24
Once a year I run all my lenses through the washing machine, whether they need it or not. I use the "Delicates" cycle. Don't want to overdo it...

The lenses that need the most care in cleaning are the early single-coated lenses, 1945-'60 or so. The early coatings are pretty soft and loosely attached.

Bernice Loui
24-May-2019, 07:34
Previously posted from 2013:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?108813-How-to-Wash-Lens-Cloth-Chamois-without-Leftover-Residue/page2&highlight=lens+cleaning

Suggest not using any of these microfiber lens cleaning cloths or similar wipe.

Consider for a moment highly abrasive stuff (usually microscopic and not easily seen with the naked eye) that can easily end up on the surface of a lens is ground into the lens surface when pressure is applied to it using most any wipe, cloth or similar cleaning device.

Years ago when I purchased some new Schneider lenses, they included a microfiber cleaning wipe. It has never been used and never will be used.

Consider using this lens cleaning method instead:

ASO fine optics CLEANING SYSTEM: Part I
http://arksky.org/aso-guides/aso-general-guides/23-aso-fine-optics-cleaning-system
by
Dr. P. Clay Sherrod
Arkansas Sky Observatory


Consider for a moment each step of this lens cleaning process and why it makes sense.



Bernice

Bob Salomon
24-May-2019, 07:47
Previously posted from 2013:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?108813-How-to-Wash-Lens-Cloth-Chamois-without-Leftover-Residue/page2&highlight=lens+cleaning

Suggest not using any of these microfiber lens cleaning cloths or similar wipe.

Consider for a moment highly abrasive stuff (usually microscopic and not easily seen with the naked eye) that can easily end up on the surface of a lens is ground into the lens surface when pressure is applied to it using most any wipe, cloth or similar cleaning device.

Years ago when I purchased some new Schneider lenses, they included a microfiber cleaning wipe. It has never been used and never will be used.

Consider using this lens cleaning method instead:

ASO fine optics CLEANING SYSTEM: Part I
http://arksky.org/aso-guides/aso-general-guides/23-aso-fine-optics-cleaning-system
by
Dr. P. Clay Sherrod
Arkansas Sky Observatory


Consider for a moment each step of this lens cleaning process and why it makes sense.



Bernice

Sorry Bernice, a clean micro fiber cloth is the best way to clean after any loose debris has been blown off the lens.

Lens tissue, like
Kodak is made of silicon fibers that will create microscopic scratches.

Bernice Loui
24-May-2019, 07:57
Never agree on this. Simply consider what happens when any two physical objects are forced together..
When the microscope and other optical folks refuse to use these cleaning cloths alone there are very real reasons why they do not use them.


Bernice




Sorry Bernice, a clean micro fiber cloth is the best way to clean after any loose debris has been blown off the lens.

Lens tissue, like
Kodak is made of silicon fibers that will create microscopic scratches.

Bernice Loui
24-May-2019, 08:09
One more lens cleaning note from Leica Microsystems.
https://www.leica-microsystems.com/fileadmin/downloads/Leica%20DM4%20P/Brochures/Cleaning_of_Microscope_Optics-Flyer_en.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove attached dirt
I Never use rubbing materials, papers, microfibre cloths
II Never clean dry
III Always start to clean water soluble dirt
a If you can see grease start with solvents
IV All solvents for cleaning should be absolutely clean
a PA solvents (ultra pure)
b Destilled or demineralized water
c No ammonium containing glass cleaner like Sidolin,
Sparkle, etc.
V All tools should be absolutely clean
a Use certified wound cotton sticks and dental cotton pads to avoid lint (no Q-tips or similar!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No recommendation using microfiber cloths. Do note the direction of cleaning device, it is circular, not up-down-across and the types of solvents used for cleaning. In a chem-science lab environment, high purity solvents and water is readily available.


Bernice

BrianShaw
24-May-2019, 09:29
The major reason some folks eschew microfiber cloth is the propensity for some folks to not heed the CLEAN part of the recommended usage advise. But in general, outside of the scientific world they are highly recommended.

And, honestly... how much effect do microscopic scratches have on normal photographic applications???

Bob Salomon
24-May-2019, 09:34
Never agree on this. Simply consider what happens when any two physical objects are forced together..
When the microscope and other optical folks refuse to use these cleaning cloths alone there are very real reasons why they do not use them.

But opticians and opthomolists do use micro fiber. So does Rodenstock, Schneider, Hoya and many others!
Bernice

Bob Salomon
24-May-2019, 09:35
Never agree on this. Simply consider what happens when any two physical objects are forced together..
When the microscope and other optical folks refuse to use these cleaning cloths alone there are very real reasons why they do not use them.


Bernice

That is why you blow the surface of the lens first with a good blower.

BrianShaw
24-May-2019, 09:45
Bob... there are various types of microfiber cloth it seems. The ones I use for spectacles is very different in texture than what I use to dry my car, now that animal chamois are frowned upon. Is there a specification for optical cleaning microfiber?

Bob Salomon
24-May-2019, 10:06
Bob... there are various types of microfiber cloth it seems. The ones I use for spectacles is very different in texture than what I use to dry my car, now that animal chamois are frowned upon. Is there a specification for optical cleaning microfiber?

Just buy one from any major photo supplier, Giottos, Rodenstock, Schneider, etc..

pepeguitarra
24-May-2019, 11:12
...
And, honestly... how much effect do microscopic scratches have on normal photographic applications???

When you buy a Leica lens for $10,000, or even $1,800, you want to keep it without microscopic scratched.

Peter De Smidt
24-May-2019, 11:57
I expect that there are many good ways, although they probably all contain the following.
1. Protect your lenses from getting dirty in the first place.
2. Use the mildest method to remove what you need, such as a very soft and clean brush for dust.
3. Whatever method you use, don't drag grit or something that might scratch the glass over the lens.

Personally, I clean with a soft brush. That does most of what I need. If that isn't completely successful with dust, I use a Kodak anti-static brush. If that doesn't work, I use a digital sensor cleaning brush. Once dust is gone, I inspect. If there are smudges, finger prints (!), or similar, I use a brand new microfiber cloth with the cleaner mentioned earlier. A small amount of cleaner goes on the cloth. I work in a circular way, starting in the center and moving out. I rotate the cloth as it moves over the glass, such that one part of the cloth doesn't drag over the glass.

Bob Salomon
24-May-2019, 12:13
The major reason some folks eschew microfiber cloth is the propensity for some folks to not heed the CLEAN part of the recommended usage advise. But in general, outside of the scientific world they are highly recommended.

And, honestly... how much effect do microscopic scratches have on normal photographic applications???

Over time and multiple cleanings those microscopic scratches do not remain microscopic!

Tin Can
24-May-2019, 12:16
I have used Acetone on old and filthy uncoated lenses.

It was the only thing that would clean it.

But as Peter suggests, don't get your lens dirty.

On a new MC lens I will put an expensive filter on it and also really protect the rear element.

I almost never clean any lens. I use the rubber Rocket Bob recommandes.

I will buy that stuff Peter uses. It is very highly recommended by many.

The same company sells Microfiber so I will get them too.

How many here have cleaned DSLR sensors or the plate over them. One camera I had would oil it's own sensor. Really a problem if I can see it...

I am going to test activated charcoal as some are using something mysterious to make old glass sparkle.

Peter De Smidt
24-May-2019, 12:23
I used to have to dry clean the sensor on my D200 fairly often. I used an Arctic Buttefly brush for dry cleaning, and Eclipse fluid for wet, but the later very rarely. With my D600, it's much less often.

pepeguitarra
24-May-2019, 12:31
I used to have to dry clean the sensor on my D200 fairly often. I used an Arctic Buttefly brush for dry cleaning, and Eclipse fluid for wet, but the later very rarely. With my D600, it's much less often.

I was very careful cleaning the sensor of my DSLRs, until I went to Leica in Germany and saw how they clean it at the factory. They use a gum pen (yes, the Pentax one!!) pick up the dirt like picking up dirt from the floor. I digresss....!

Tin Can
24-May-2019, 14:39
Everything we write about here is sniffed.

This just popped up.

Carbon Microfiber Pads (https://www.dailytribune.online/ive-recommended-eyeglass-cleaning-products-for-12-years-but-this-product-is-the-best/?cep=s-Goujc6lOHDwlWVogteEbdgc--ymyP3ZnisgI44ifv1fte2n1kxBYLmt17gdPn6ExDwlr0hVHpIVhJOJuB80pPRfxoaS3Rf2Oyf9DiKytgKD_m7Gzgr7OfSaIxGcn86NId4wLetzXEGTQ7nBQDhdxGLUAjSkbEjuGo6t0B7UotJtl6DdZ31EawdUmu3AGE9JFNQI34HPe1UhWof-13veMtILWtUl4cA4B3iBZ_tcdo-cU8Li7lVCmR4EklqxmuV3mx1OJ8sLxw-kbECcy6HOAzyY19_dwYjsOHwbolllfx4_8RmyC2rKc9c7vUZRNt9myPVkfG_6xU233nEFg3KLmiLenqQHJQ948YEGCXa4KbUBCwCWEEZPrOVeSqcZW_kU0Sj5LeC6ixUxwtmNG3SgTfeIUmxhnmjSinOhhJ5UkzoxEWNx7jBG961xw2dGoR68u6uZ2A-fvCnR7CB-ndlzyGq4vxvuznOJ2w9Zi8Jxp4MSl8KdRYws3z4ZUNVGB7qNHjoHJHxRbb4dZcCzTxP7pemsxBh0pmqD_ptiottWYU&site=reachmobi-app&thumbnail=http://cdn.taboola.com/libtrc/static/thumbnails/fa2be06a2c3fb6fb6e1a0437d8d74e62.jpg&title=Carbon%20Microfiber%20Pads%20Are%20The%20Best%20Way%20To%20Clean%20Your%20Glasses&timestamp=2019-05-24%2021:30:20&platform=Desktop&campaign_id=2258997&campaign_item_id=225136061&clickid=CiBlMjYwZDAxZTFhYzZiYjA0MjgwYzcxYWJkODRmNWUyMBIcZGVudmlybWVkaWFvLWh1dXVnZWNhc2luby1zYw)

I am NOT buying it!

Just because

BrianShaw
24-May-2019, 15:22
When you buy a Leica lens for $10,000, or even $1,800, you want to keep it without microscopic scratched.

I guess. But that might be the difference between you and me. I have some really nice gear, but noting quite that pricey. :)

jnantz
24-May-2019, 17:20
Once a year I run all my lenses through the washing machine, whether they need it or not. I use the "Delicates" cycle. Don't want to overdo it...

The lenses that need the most care in cleaning are the early single-coated lenses, 1945-'60 or so. The early coatings are pretty soft and loosely attached.

I don't bother with the delicates cycle I just breath on the lense and use my Tshirt ( like everyone who owned the lenses before me ).

Bob Salomon
24-May-2019, 18:25
I don't bother with the delicates cycle I just breath on the lense and use my Tshirt ( like everyone who owned the lenses before me ).

Many probably used well worn $1.00 bills. Unless they were Leica users and used worn Grants or Franklins!

jnantz
24-May-2019, 19:21
Many probably used well worn $1.00 bills. Unless they were Leica users and used worn Grants or Franklins!

Makes sense, $1 bills are mostly cotton, and well worn ones are softer than a new one! I was talking to a friend about this an hour or so ago and he told me he does the same thing, breath and Tshirt, and if the lens needs a bit of a coating-fix he doesn't bother with the DAG, Leitz, Schneider, Rodenstock or any of the Boutique Re-Coaters. Instead, he makes sure he has some Schwee ( also called Cheetle ) and swirls some on in a nice even coat. It gives a nice sunny day better than lumized Leitz glass.
( For the uninitiated Schwee is the orange stuff you get on your fingers when you eat a bag of Cheetos: As he says, "Works every time !"

BrianShaw
24-May-2019, 19:45
I don't bother with the delicates cycle I just breath on the lense and use my Tshirt ( like everyone who owned the lenses before me ).

If it’s not too personal to ask, do you use the outside or inside of the t-shirt?

Bob Salomon
24-May-2019, 19:51
If it’s not too personal to ask, do you use the outside or inside of the t-shirt?
The body or the inside shoulder area?

BrianShaw
24-May-2019, 19:57
The body or the inside shoulder area?

Crew neck or v-neck?

Peter De Smidt
24-May-2019, 20:06
Why does it matter how expensive it is? Why damage it? All it take is a little care...

pepeguitarra
24-May-2019, 20:19
This post seems to go somewhere different than expected..!;)

pepeguitarra
24-May-2019, 20:21
Once a year I run all my lenses through the washing machine, whether they need it or not. I use the "Delicates" cycle. Don't want to overdo it...

The lenses that need the most care in cleaning are the early single-coated lenses, 1945-'60 or so. The early coatings are pretty soft and loosely attached.

I am surprised nobody has followed up on your comment. Do you put the lens (alone) or with the barrel in the washer? What kind of detergent do you use?

BrianShaw
24-May-2019, 20:37
I am surprised nobody has followed up on your comment. Do you put the lens (alone) or with the barrel in the washer? What kind of detergent do you use?

Front loader or top loader?

jnantz
24-May-2019, 20:54
If it’s not too personal to ask, do you use the outside or inside of the t-shirt?
The INSIDE, and Fruit of the Loom tank top of course ! I must admit I only do this delicate operation after guzzling a 30pack of Natural Ice.

Mark Sawyer
25-May-2019, 00:37
I am surprised nobody has followed up on your comment. Do you put the lens (alone) or with the barrel in the washer? What kind of detergent do you use?

Detergent? I just use HC-110, and some fixer in the fabric softener reservoir. That way I can put my film in too, and process it at the same time. I'm surprised all you experienced photographers don't know these things...

Bernice Loui
25-May-2019, 06:29
Add lens softener to the rinse cycle if the soft look is desired.


Bernice

Arcus
26-May-2019, 21:25
So, I gather no special treatment needed. So I'll use my Giotto Rocket, my camel hair brush, and 99% isopropyl alcohol with microfiber cloth, per usual.

Bob Salomon
26-May-2019, 21:45
So, I gather no special treatment needed. So I'll use my Giotto Rocket, my camel hair brush, and 99% isopropyl alcohol with microfiber cloth, per usual.

Actually there is a special treatment. First make sure the microfiber cloth is clean, it it isn’t, shake it out and hand wash it with a detergent for delicate fabrics and air dry it.
Next use a high quality, non smudging lens cleaning solution, I use either Novoflex or Giottos cleaners. Place a few drops on the cloth, turn the cloth over and gently wipe the surface of the lens.

Arcus
29-May-2019, 14:29
Actually there is a special treatment. First make sure the microfiber cloth is clean, it it isn’t, shake it out and hand wash it with a detergent for delicate fabrics and air dry it.
Next use a high quality, non smudging lens cleaning solution, I use either Novoflex or Giottos cleaners. Place a few drops on the cloth, turn the cloth over and gently wipe the surface of the lens.

Well....that's really not special treatment for older lenses, right? Those are good practices for cleaning all lenses! My concern was mostly with the older coatings, but thanks for the advice!

Drew Bedo
1-Jun-2019, 10:52
Back in the 1990s, when the old Houston Camera Show was big, I handled a lot of pre-War cameras and lenses. The uncoated lenses for Speed Graphics and others seemed to clean up OK by removing the lens elements and gently hand washing(not immersing) them with dish soap and cold water, followed by a distilled water rinse and alcohol. . . air dried without rubbing.

The early lens coatings were pretty soft, I understand. I left them pretty much alone; maybe a gentle brush with a rolled up lens tissue that had been torn . . .or just caned air.

Bob Salomon
1-Jun-2019, 12:10
Well....that's really not special treatment for older lenses, right? Those are good practices for cleaning all lenses! My concern was mostly with the older coatings, but thanks for the advice!

Right!

Bob Salomon
1-Jun-2019, 12:14
Back in the 1990s, when the old Houston Camera Show was big, I handled a lot of pre-War cameras and lenses. The uncoated lenses for Speed Graphics and others seemed to clean up OK by removing the lens elements and gently hand washing(not immersing) them with dish soap and cold water, followed by a distilled water rinse and alcohol. . . air dried without rubbing.

The early lens coatings were pretty soft, I understand. I left them pretty much alone; maybe a gentle brush with a rolled up lens tissue that had been torn . . .or just caned air.

Never use canned air!

It is a Haz Mat product
It can spit particles onto the lens if not held properly
It can damage the lens and/or your hand if held at an angle that spits out frozen air
It is dangerous, and has killed, if the propellant is inhaled. That is why a bitterant has been added to the can.
It can explode